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Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers!

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SensGirl11
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Phoenix30
jamvan
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121Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:48 am

jamvan


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Acrobat wrote:One shot in each knee = two shots, thus plural?
And this leads to a rumored trade for an almost-washed-up goalie?

Has anyone really watched him move on the ice - is/was it any different than last year? This would be the telling sign. MCL/ACL would be the likely injury, and if he really needed surgery, I can't imagine they wouldn't have encouraged him to do it in the summer, so he could rehab properly - goalies put a ton of strain on both of those ligaments, as well as the hips. Even a minor strain and he won't have the ability to pop up from a butterfly properly and to power across the net.
I don't agree with that. Fisher and Alfie both should have gotten surgery for their injuries, but opted out. It happens everyday that athletes opt out of surgery. Just look at how long it took Tiger to go for it.

122Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:10 am

rooneypoo


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PKC wrote:Well the fact remains that he still took even one injection of cortisone. All I'm saying is that doctors tend not to encourage shots of cortisone. It's a suppressant at best. If he has an issue serious enough that he'd need a cortisone shot, then he definitely has an issue.

I agree there. Cortisone is nasty stuff, easing the pain and convincing your body that there's no problem, which in turn tricks you into going back to your usual routine and further injuring / straining the muscle / ligament in question. I don't know why anyone takes the stuff. When my rotator cuffs went out of whack on me, the doctors offered it, but I turned it down for rehabing exercises.

All I'm saying, tho', is that we should be wary of the truth-value of this story. It's potentially been blown way out of proportion because of a mistranslation.

123Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:47 pm

Riprock


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You can apparently count out the Avalanche as a destination for Khabibulin: http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/hockey/2008/10/01/available_goalie_not/

Avalanche fans with dreams of Nikolai Khabibulin stopping pucks for the team can forget it - at least for now. The former Stanley Cup-winning goalie is on the trade market, but the Avs indicated they were not interested in a deal with the Chicago Blackhawks. "(General manager) Francois Giguere said in the (Sept. 2) press conference announcing the signing of Joe Sakic that the team in place then was the team that would likely be in place entering opening night," Avalanche vice president Jean Martineau said. Acquiring Khabibulin, who cleared waivers Tuesday, would be a risk for the Avs, not just because of the $6.75 million salary due on this, the last year of his contract. Colorado has only about $5 million of room under the NHL's salary cap, so it would have to give up a quality player to make room for him. Khabibulin is 35 and has not performed at the level he reached while winning a Cup with Tampa Bay in 2004. He had a 3.35 goals-against average and .886 save percentage for Chicago in 2005-06, the first year of a four-year, free-agent deal with the Blackhawks. His statistics have been better the last two seasons, but still not among the NHL's top goalies.

124Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:02 pm

PTFlea

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Oh man...LOL, that was pretty much Chicago's only chance of out and out trading him. Ottawa's not touching him, LA I doubt and no one else can afford it/needs him. Re-entry it is - or a trade with LA that includes Seabrooke and a 1st to absorb the massive cap hit.

125Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:42 pm

Riprock

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Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

126Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:44 pm

Phoenix30

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504Heater wrote:Oh man...LOL, that was pretty much Chicago's only chance of out and out trading him. Ottawa's not touching him, LA I doubt and no one else can afford it/needs him. Re-entry it is - or a trade with LA that includes Seabrooke and a 1st to absorb the massive cap hit.

Unless Chicago is willing to let Bulin sit in the minors for a year I think they will need to throw in the 1st and a quality player to make a deal.

Should become very interesting once the season starts and teams see where they are at in about a month. The only thing I am worried about is the longer Chicago keeps Bulin in the minors and teams get a better feeling of their teams, the pendulum could start to swing in Chicago's favor if a team comes looking for the Bulin Wall.

127Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:45 pm

PTFlea

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DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

I just asked that to my fiance Mel...I would say yes absolutely, but she says no way. Gerber is solid enough and we don't know if Khabby is gonna perform the way we know he can.

For the record I would still take him on re-entry for 3.35 million and waive or trade Gerber, but it's a move that could backfire.

Murray tried to get Khabby at the deadline last year for Emery and Gerber...means he at least has interest.

What do you think?

128Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:45 pm

PTFlea

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Phoenix30 wrote:
504Heater wrote:Oh man...LOL, that was pretty much Chicago's only chance of out and out trading him. Ottawa's not touching him, LA I doubt and no one else can afford it/needs him. Re-entry it is - or a trade with LA that includes Seabrooke and a 1st to absorb the massive cap hit.

Unless Chicago is willing to let Bulin sit in the minors for a year I think they will need to throw in the 1st and a quality player to make a deal.

Should become very interesting once the season starts and teams see where they are at in about a month. The only thing I am worried about is the longer Chicago keeps Bulin in the minors and teams get a better feeling of their teams, the pendulum could start to swing in Chicago's favor if a team comes looking for the Bulin Wall.

Definitely, I completely agree. They could lose more that they bargained for if they don't want to eat his salary or his salary on re-entry.

129Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:49 pm

Phoenix30

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DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

If a side deal with Chicago were to be arranged where Ottawa gets a 1st rounder and a quality player/prospect it might be worth looking into.

130Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:52 pm

Riprock

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And if we can get an extra pick out of Chicago just for taking him, why not?

131Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:55 pm

PTFlea

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Phoenix30 wrote:
DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

If a side deal with Chicago were to be arranged where Ottawa gets a 1st rounder and a quality player/prospect it might be worth looking into.

Yes indeed.

132Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:58 pm

Phoenix30

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504Heater wrote:
Phoenix30 wrote:
DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

If a side deal with Chicago were to be arranged where Ottawa gets a 1st rounder and a quality player/prospect it might be worth looking into.

Yes indeed.

I think any deal with Chicago for Bulin is more for the future of any team. Would you make the deal if you could get a 1st, a quality prospect, and Bulin. If it were me I'd be on the phone and offer this up to Tallon.

I'll take Bulin off of re-entry waivers if you were willing to send me Seabrooke or Barker, a 1st, and Brouwer. I'll then send you Gerber, Kelly, Nikulin and a 3rd rounder.

133Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:04 pm

PKC

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I don't know how this could work out for Ottawa without taking him off of re-entry waivers. There aren't any big pieces we'd move for Khabibulin, and our bottom tier players just don't add up enough to create any savings. I think Tallon will have to take half the hit and hope for the best.

134Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:30 pm

LethalLehner

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I think that Murray is still interested but as others have already mentioned, he doesn't want to make it known as it could shake the confidence of Gerbs if the deal falls through. I think Khabibulin would be great in Ottawa. With a good team in front of him, I am sure he will go back to his decent numbers. How Murray would work out this deal will be interesting to watch but we have seen his ability to be shrewd during this off season. I for one, though I like Gerbs, would be very happy to see Khabibulin wearing a Sens jersey. :D

135Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:15 pm

wprager

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504Heater wrote:
DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

I just asked that to my fiance Mel...I would say yes absolutely, but she says no way. Gerber is solid enough and we don't know if Khabby is gonna perform the way we know he can.

For the record I would still take him on re-entry for 3.35 million and waive or trade Gerber, but it's a move that could backfire.

Murray tried to get Khabby at the deadline last year for Emery and Gerber...means he at least has interest.

What do you think?

Break it off!

I mean the talk about Bulin, not the wedding. She knows what she's talking about. A keeper.

Khabibulin has not been the "Bulin Wall" since he got his big contract. For whatever reason, he's not the goalie he once was. This isn't just a fluke, a blip or playing on a bad team. He just plain lost it. Pierre said it, and Pierre knows everything.

Sure, he might get it back. Same for Bertuzzi, except in that situation you are risking one of your 6 winger spots, and less than $2M.

136Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:24 pm

Acrobat

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jamvan wrote:
Acrobat wrote:One shot in each knee = two shots, thus plural?
And this leads to a rumored trade for an almost-washed-up goalie?

Has anyone really watched him move on the ice - is/was it any different than last year? This would be the telling sign. MCL/ACL would be the likely injury, and if he really needed surgery, I can't imagine they wouldn't have encouraged him to do it in the summer, so he could rehab properly - goalies put a ton of strain on both of those ligaments, as well as the hips. Even a minor strain and he won't have the ability to pop up from a butterfly properly and to power across the net.
I don't agree with that. Fisher and Alfie both should have gotten surgery for their injuries, but opted out. It happens everyday that athletes opt out of surgery. Just look at how long it took Tiger to go for it.

You are misunderstanding what I said - I was pointing out that the team would have encouraged him to have the surgery done in the summer, so as not to rush him back (he is a key player). This is always preferable to surgery in-season to a critical member of the team.

In your examples, the players didn't opt not to have surgery, but opted to delay surgery until a time when it was more appropriate. They waited until summer (Alfie, Fisher), or until after the US Open (Woods). In the case of Alfie & Fisher, they then had the time to recover, but in the meantime, I would guarantee that they were getting shots of cortisone at some point.

rooneypoo wrote:I agree there. Cortisone is nasty stuff, easing the pain and convincing your body that there's no problem, which in turn tricks you into going back to your usual routine and further injuring / straining the muscle / ligament in question.

Cortisone does nothing (directly) for pain. It is used purely for its anti-inflammatory activity, in these cases. It is the inflammation that is causing the pain, through the release of a bunch of different chemicals (I won't go into the entire pathway). The flip-side of this is that inflammation itself can also accelerate the destruction of the tissue, including the damaged tissue, so there is a fine balance between allowing the required healing to proceed (this can be slowed with cortisone), and stopping the inflammation. It's great for arthritic patients, who generally don't go out and play hockey once you've injected their shoulder. For the 30-yr old with a shoulder injury, the justification becomes harder, and the restrictions are stricter.

You are correct in implying that sometimes physicians use cortisone a little too quickly; however it definitely has its place. For the general public, the key is to do just what you did - physio/rehab. For elite athletes, their livelihood depends on getting back into the game, so often they will be willing to accept the long term risks for the shorter and medium term benefits.

C'est la vie.

(and that's all for Physiology 101. Stay tuned tomorrow for Physiology 201....)

137Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:40 pm

rooneypoo

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504Heater wrote:Oh man...LOL, that was pretty much Chicago's only chance of out and out trading him. Ottawa's not touching him, LA I doubt and no one else can afford it/needs him. Re-entry it is - or a trade with LA that includes Seabrooke and a 1st to absorb the massive cap hit.

CHI will have to give up good assets and/or take on crappy assets in return for getting Khabby off their roster, but the price won't be that high. I could see something like Khabby and a 3rd to LA for Calder (who's been a disaster, and who they definitely want off their team). Something like that. No one's going to be giving up 1sts and Seabrookes in something like this. Think smaller.

138Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! - Page 9 Empty Re: Nikolai Khabibulin on waivers! Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:41 pm

rooneypoo

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DashRiprock wrote:Does Ottawa take a chance on him via re-entry? Trade to rid cap space? Or are they not interested, no way, no how?

No alternate destination in mind for Gerber, no way we acquire Khabby, even at half price.

In all honesty, I think Khabby to the Sens is a pipe dream, and a big of a misguided one given that it'd be a lateral move at best. We don't have the space, and we don't have an asset in Gerber that people are clamouring to get their hands on.

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