Schneider waived

504Heater wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
EDIT: I'm not sure if you're right about the age thing and how his salary might continue to count against the cap even after he's waived. It's an interesting point and it would change the dynamics a bit if it is true -- but read Spector:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector/2008/09/16/Ducks_Place_Schneider_on_Waivers#comments

According to him, waiving Schneider gets his salary off their cap books.

I swear to God Rooney, I don't understand that one. I thought for sure if he was over 35 and signed a contract, even if he was waived his salary counted.

We'll find out soon I guess - but yeah, he's not passing through waivers I don't think.

You are indeed right about Schneider's salary counting against the team's cap even if he clears waivers, Heater, and it has everything to do with his age and the length of the contract. Check out the Spector link -- he's deleted the old paragraph and added in a new one to this effect.

That is pretty interesting, and it does change the dynamics.

In any event, I know that buyouts work the same for players over 35 (see Glen Murray's situation). If it came down to it, I think the buyout route would be preferable to a recall waiver claim if the goal is to clear as much cap space this year as possible to sign Selanne -- in a buyout scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/3 of Schneider's salary (about $1.875 mil), and in a recall waiver claim scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/2 of Schneider's salary (about $2.8125 mil). The former option makes the most sense to me if the goal is to make space now: a $1 mil difference is pretty substantial in today's salary cap era (albeit, granted, they'd be stuck with another $1.875 cap hit again next season).

In any event, no, I still don't think it likely it will come to this, and that he'll be claimed by another team at noon today.

Well it's official Ottawa will not be taking a chance on Schneider.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators/2008/09/17/6791796.html

I think either way, unless he's picked up off waivers and a team doesn't mind paying through the face for a 39 year old injury risk, that the Ducks are Diddle. I just looked at next year's numbers, and they are up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle.
They have 32 million committed to 5 forwards, 1 defenseman and 2 goalies. Assuming the cap goes up to an even 60 million, that leaves them with 28 million for at least 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, or an average of 2.333 million per player.
Good luck to whoever is GM'ing that team to build a playoff caliber squad.

jamvan wrote:Well it's official Ottawa will not be taking a chance on Schneider.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators/2008/09/17/6791796.html

GOOD!!!! I'd have a stroke if I found out we took a waiver on a 5.625 million dollar 39 year old injury risk.

Also worth noting, Winchester was skating on the top line with Heatley and Spezza.

PKC wrote:I think either way, unless he's picked up off waivers and a team doesn't mind paying through the face for a 39 year old injury risk, that the Ducks are Diddle. I just looked at next year's numbers, and they are up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle.
They have 32 million committed to 5 forwards, 1 defenseman and 2 goalies. Assuming the cap goes up to an even 60 million, that leaves them with 28 million for at least 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, or an average of 2.333 million per player.
Good luck to whoever is GM'ing that team to build a playoff caliber squad.

This statement confuses me. You guys all want to bring in Bouwmeester. Here are the numbers on 5 forwards + Bouw and Auld for Ottawa:
CASH + Fish = 23M + Kelly = 25M + Bouw = 31M + Auld = 32M and we don't even have Giguere included in those numbers...I have no clue how they're "up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle" but we'd be all good because 'we've now got Bouw.'

Haha, like Ottawa even has a shot at Schneider on the waiver wire anyways.

DashRiprock wrote:Haha, like Ottawa even has a shot at Schneider on the waiver wire anyways.

Actually yes they did. No team is going to want to give Anaheim a break, I wouldn't be surprised if he clears waivers.

cash wrote:

PKC wrote:I think either way, unless he's picked up off waivers and a team doesn't mind paying through the face for a 39 year old injury risk, that the Ducks are Diddle. I just looked at next year's numbers, and they are up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle.
They have 32 million committed to 5 forwards, 1 defenseman and 2 goalies. Assuming the cap goes up to an even 60 million, that leaves them with 28 million for at least 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, or an average of 2.333 million per player.
Good luck to whoever is GM'ing that team to build a playoff caliber squad.

This statement confuses me. You guys all want to bring in Bouwmeester. Here are the numbers on 5 forwards + Bouw and Auld for Ottawa:
CASH + Fish = 23M + Kelly = 25M + Bouw = 31M + Auld = 32M and we don't even have Giguere included in those numbers...I have no clue how they're "up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle" but we'd be all good because 'we've now got Bouw.'

Umm, the rest of their players are UFAs? If you've seen the market trend for UFAs and the slow process of ever-escalating salaries for even marginal players then you'd realize just how Diddle they are.
Also, our top line as it stands right now is so much better than theirs that its not even comparable.
Sure, they have Giguere, but if Elliott's work ethic is any good this year, he'll be our starter of the future as soon as next year perhaps, or, even, possibly this year at some point.
As far as adding Bouwmeester, he would be the final piece to what I would consider an outstanding defensive corps. Phillips-Bouwmeester/Volchenkov-Lee/Smith-Picard with Karlsson(s), Bell, Schubert, and a couple of youngsters in the wings.
Whereas in Anaheim, they have Pronger right now signed for next year. Beauchemin due for a substantial raise; Niedermayer, who if chooses to play again, will command a salary well over 4 million dollars; plus the natural raise of salary for guys like DiPenta, O'Donnell, and Huskins, or the possible signing of a free agent defenseman.

And I haven't even touched their forward ranks where they ranked third last in goals for last year.
So yeah, like I said earlier with regards to the creek and a lack of a vessel.

cash wrote:

This statement confuses me. You guys all want to bring in Bouwmeester. Here are the numbers on 5 forwards + Bouw and Auld for Ottawa:
CASH + Fish = 23M + Kelly = 25M + Bouw = 31M + Auld = 32M and we don't even have Giguere included in those numbers...I have no clue how they're "up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle" but we'd be all good because 'we've now got Bouw.'

I hear what you're saying, in part.

On the one hand, it's completely standard in the cap era that you're going to spend about $35+ mil on your core. Look around the league, and you'll see it's the same for all the best teams -- if they're not paying it now, they're gonig to be paying it very soon, when their best players' contracts come up. No team is necessarily in trouble just because they invest lots of money in their core -- at least, no more than the next team. Any core that includes Getzlaf, Perry, Kunitz, Pronger, and Giguere is a good one, too.

Your comparison with the Sens is not really fair, tho': the other 2 forwards on contract are Ryan and Carter, 2 young up-and-comers on entry-level deals who are currently not anywhere near as impactful as Fisher or Kelly.

On the other hand, I think what the other poster is pointing to is that, after 8 players, ANA doesn't have *anyone* else signed for next year. My guess is that they'll extend (or at least try to extend) Moen, Pahlsson, Beauchemin, and possibly R. Niedermayer and O'Donnell -- but that's a lot of work to do during the season, and it doesn't change the fact that it looks like ANA is headed for a massive turn-over in their ranks in the very near future. I agree, tho', in that I don't think the amount of money they have invested in their core will significantly affect their ability to piece together a team -- 3rd and 4th line plugs are inexpensive, and you can always count on some cheap labour from the prospects pool. Because of their cap situation, however, I will say that it looks like ANA will be hard-pressed to add significant 2nd line talent to play with Ryan.

As for the Sens, I have little doubt that we're going to be spending some serious money on at least one D or goalie in the next 10 months. We've got almost our entire roster locked up for another year (everyone except Neil, McAmmond, Kuba, and Gerber) for only $44.552 in salary, and we have lots of young guys knocking at the door. That gives us something like $10-15 mil to play with in the very near future. To me, that says that we add at least one impact player of Bouw's calibre, or perhaps Bouw + a $4 mil or so goalie. We will have the money, and we'll certainly have the need -- at least for one D. If Elliott is ready by then, so be it, we can use the money to bolster the team elsewhere if need be.

rooneypoo wrote:
You are indeed right about Schneider's salary counting against the team's cap even if he clears waivers, Heater, and it has everything to do with his age and the length of the contract. Check out the Spector link -- he's deleted the old paragraph and added in a new one to this effect.

That is pretty interesting, and it does change the dynamics.

In any event, I know that buyouts work the same for players over 35 (see Glen Murray's situation). If it came down to it, I think the buyout route would be preferable to a recall waiver claim if the goal is to clear as much cap space this year as possible to sign Selanne -- in a buyout scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/3 of Schneider's salary (about $1.875 mil), and in a recall waiver claim scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/2 of Schneider's salary (about $2.8125 mil). The former option makes the most sense to me if the goal is to make space now: a $1 mil difference is pretty substantial in today's salary cap era (albeit, granted, they'd be stuck with another $1.875 cap hit again next season).

In any event, no, I still don't think it likely it will come to this, and that he'll be claimed by another team at noon today.

Selanne better have the year of his life. I'm not even kidding, he better score 45 and get to 100 points, because this is a hassle and a half. :D It's fun to watch this train wreck though.

For all aspiring GMs - this is how not to handle your cap.

cash wrote:
This statement confuses me. You guys all want to bring in Bouwmeester. Here are the numbers on 5 forwards + Bouw and Auld for Ottawa:
CASH + Fish = 23M + Kelly = 25M + Bouw = 31M + Auld = 32M and we don't even have Giguere included in those numbers...I have no clue how they're "up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle" but we'd be all good because 'we've now got Bouw.'

The difference for us is that we've got our players locked up for next year at the very least. Take a look at Anaheim's roster for next year. They have literally 8 players I think it is under contract. Everyone else is a UFA. And they're at 30 million. Dead. You are dead next year. Better win the Cup this year Burkie.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=ANA

Next is Giguere BTW. Depending on how Hiller comes along, he's the next big ticket guy out of there. There's just no way you can handle your cap with 8 or 9 guys signed for 30 million, something has to give.

Hiller's an excellent talent as well. He can start taking over soon.

jamvan wrote:Well it's official Ottawa will not be taking a chance on Schneider.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators/2008/09/17/6791796.html

Makes you wonder if he ever really was in our sights to begin with.



That salary is pretty cap-prohibitive for a lot of clubs...

shabbs wrote:

jamvan wrote:Well it's official Ottawa will not be taking a chance on Schneider.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators/2008/09/17/6791796.html

Makes you wonder if he ever really was in our sights to begin with.



That salary is pretty cap-prohibitive for a lot of clubs...

That's why I think he clears waivers and then Anaheim will be on the hook for half his salary.

I have no questions that Murray would like to add him, but at that salary he can't.

In a way that doesn't shock me...

What did someone say the other day. Schneider to Ottawa was all smoke and mirrors?

Could be Cronie but, at half his salary I'd take him for this season :D.

Cap'n' Clutch wrote:Could be Cronie but, at half his salary I'd take him for this season :D.

If you go to Spector's site he also thiks the same as I do. Why would any team, unless they were in dire need of Schneider, claim him off waivers? He's going to clear waivers and then he can be had for $2.? for the year. If Murray can add him for that price (if he gets the chance, but he won't) then I think he'd take him.

jamvan wrote:That's why I think he clears waivers and then Anaheim will be on the hook for half his salary.

I have no questions that Murray would like to add him, but at that salary he can't.

Have we cleared the "it counts/it doesn't count" cap issue with his salary if he clears waivers? I've seen discussions saying it won't count, it will count etc...

If he does pass waivers and his salary does end up counting, Burke will look like a tool. But, this is Burke, he knows the CBA inside and out and must be doing this for a reason otherwise he would have just taken whatever he could get in trade, unless he really got no offers.

Lot of eye-brows being raised...