Schneider waived

504Heater wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Ooh, yea, you may be right about that. I mean, when you waive a guy and he goes unclaimed, you retain his rights, so hypothetically you could trade him -- but I'm not sure what happens after that. If he'd have to pass back through re-entry waivers, then no one would trade for him.

Anyone remember the details of what happened with Mark Recchi last year? He was waivered and I believe he cleared (I think?), and then he ended up in ATL. His situation might help us understand Schneider's.

Anyway, if a trade is not an option nor a buyout (I'm looking in to the CBA for this right now), then re-entry waivers would indeed be the only solution... and if re-entry waivers work in reverse order, as you suggest Heater, we actually might have a chance to pick him up....

A potentially stunning turn of events....

Here's another stunning turn of events:

Burke hasn't 'designated Schneider for assignment' apparently, so there's no recall waiver Dung yet.

He's looking to trade Schneider and potentially a high pick or high prospect and take someone's 2 million dollar mistake to get rid of him. He'd then waive the player he acquired and shed the entire salary.

What the hell is happening with Anaheim. Selanne is good...but...this is a lot of trouble.

WOW! Will wonders never cease. I think we got rid of all our $2 million mistakes. Hmmm

I've found the relevant passage on buyouts in the CBA. Turns out I was confusing "RFAs with arbitration rights" with plain old "RFAs."

This means that Schneider is not a candidate for a buyout, and nor would any team be in a position to buy him out (all arbitration hearing having come to an end).

So, the options are

1) trade him with a high pick / prospect to a team who will then bring him through re-entry waivers -- either he clears and they keep him and his full salary, or they lose him and are left with half of his salary. In this scenario, you're basically paying someone else a pick/prospect to absorb the costs / cap hit of Schneider's salary / half salary.

2) bring him back through re-entry waivers, at which point he'll certainly be claimed by another team and ANA will be stuck with half of his salary on the books.

Looking at those options, the first seems more likely. Looking at the list of teams in line to put in a claim on Schneider whenever he is eventually brought back through re-entry waivers (and provided that Heater is right about the order of precedence changing from 30-1 to 1-30, the only teams in front of us who might claim him would be NJ (who could certainly use him, but who are very tight against the cap as it is), MIN (who already have Zidlicky, Burns, and MAB), and COL (who have tonnes of space).

We might actually have a shot at this, although it might take weeks for all this to happen. I can't imagine passing Schneider up if he's to be had for $2.8 mil.

rooneypoo wrote:I've found the relevant passage on buyouts in the CBA. Turns out I was confusing "RFAs with arbitration rights" with plain old "RFAs."

This means that Schneider is not a candidate for a buyout, and nor would any team be in a position to buy him out (all arbitration hearing having come to an end).

So, the options are

1) trade him with a high pick / prospect to a team who will then bring him through re-entry waivers -- either he clears and they keep him and his full salary, or they lose him and are left with half of his salary. In this scenario, you're basically paying someone else a pick/prospect to absorb the costs / cap hit of Schneider's salary / half salary.

2) bring him back through re-entry waivers, at which point he'll certainly be claimed by another team and ANA will be stuck with half of his salary on the books.

Looking at those options, the first seems more likely. Looking at the list of teams in line to put in a claim on Schneider whenever he is eventually brought back through re-entry waivers (and provided that Heater is right about the order of precedence changing from 30-1 to 1-30, the only teams in front of us who might claim him would be NJ (who could certainly use him, but who are very tight against the cap as it is), MIN (who already have Zidlicky, Burns, and MAB), and COL (who have tonnes of space).

We might actually have a shot at this, although it might take weeks for all this to happen. I can't imagine passing Schneider up if he's to be had for $2.8 mil.

I could be wrong, but I thought there was a max to how much a team could exceed the cap prior to the start of season. Every team has to be under by the start of season else face penalties, but I thought they could only be over by a certain amount prior to the start.

If that's the case, does anyone know what that amount is? This would most certainly mean that New Jersey would have to move someone prior to pulling Schneider off of re-entry waivers. Such a move would signal to Murray that he won't make it to them.

Rooney...I may be wrong. It may be from 30th to 1st again. Still trying to confirm that, but that would end this really quickly.

504Heater wrote:Rooney...I may be wrong. It may be from 30th to 1st again. Still trying to confirm that, but that would end this really quickly.

It's definitely 30th to 1st Heater.

Dawg's Wife wrote:

I could be wrong, but I thought there was a max to how much a team could exceed the cap prior to the start of season. Every team has to be under by the start of season else face penalties, but I thought they could only be over by a certain amount prior to the start.

If that's the case, does anyone know what that amount is? This would most certainly mean that New Jersey would have to move someone prior to pulling Schneider off of re-entry waivers. Such a move would signal to Murray that he won't make it to them.

There is a max amount that teams can exceed the cap *prior* to the start of the season; that figure is, I believe, 5 or 10% (I think it's the latter) in total. Any team that is not under the cap when the season opens will forfeit every game for which they remain over the cap, no ifs ands or buts.

NJ is one of those teams whose current salary cap hit is not exactly what it appears to be on NHLSCAP.com. They technically only have $1.35 mil in cap space available, but they also have a 23-man roster at the moment, with 13 F and 8 D. Their cap space will increase by something like $1 once they trim down their roster to 20/21 players (returning players to the minors, waivers, etc.). Additionally, that $1.35 mil / 8 D at NHLSCAP.com currently includes Vishnevski's salary instead of his buyout: his $1.8 mil / 2 years actually turns into a $600,000 cap hit over the next 4 years.

All that means that, instead of having only $1.35 mil in cap space, NJ could theoretically have something closer to $3.5 mil in cap space right now -- the current $1.35 mil + the $1 they should save once they cut down the roster + the $1.2 mil they're saving on Vishnevski's buyout = about $3.5 mil. And that would mean that they would snag Schneider for sure. Which would suck for us.

jamvan wrote:
It's definitely 30th to 1st Heater.

Boo.

jamvan wrote:

504Heater wrote:Rooney...I may be wrong. It may be from 30th to 1st again. Still trying to confirm that, but that would end this really quickly.

It's definitely 30th to 1st Heater.

I could have sworn I read somewhere other than here that the waiver order was oposite of the draft. This was to keep teams who had high draft picks from "doubling up" in the same year.

Dawg's Wife wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere other than here that the waiver order was oposite of the draft. This was to keep teams who had high draft picks from "doubling up" in the same year.

I don't understand. When can we find confirmation of this Wife of Dawg?

504Heater wrote:

jamvan wrote:
It's definitely 30th to 1st Heater.

Boo.

As far as I can tell, there's no info on this is the CBA, re: order of regular waiver / re-entry waiver priorities -- a lot of stuff about which players are and are not exempt and the various criteria and so on, but nothing else. Does anyone even know where to look?

EDIT: I conducted my search of the CBA using the standard "search" (i.e., word-finding) option. There's definitely nothing in the CBA on this issue.

504Heater wrote:

Dawg's Wife wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere other than here that the waiver order was oposite of the draft. This was to keep teams who had high draft picks from "doubling up" in the same year.

I don't understand. When can we find confirmation of this Wife of Dawg?

Here's how it worked for Recchi:

Recchi cleared waivers the day before, but now any team claiming the veteran will only be responsible for half his salary, with Pittsburgh picking up the other half. Waiver order is the reverse order of the standings, meaning Washington has first dibs. It is rumored that Phoenix, San Jose and Carolina are all interested in Recchi's services.

jamvan wrote:
Recchi cleared waivers the day before, but now any team claiming the veteran will only be responsible for half his salary, with Pittsburgh picking up the other half. Waiver order is the reverse order of the standings, meaning Washington has first dibs. It is rumored that Phoenix, San Jose and Carolina are all interested in Recchi's services.

rooneypoo wrote:

504Heater wrote:

jamvan wrote:
It's definitely 30th to 1st Heater.

Boo.

As far as I can tell, there's no info on this is the CBA, re: order of regular waiver / re-entry waiver priorities -- a lot of stuff about which players are and are not exempt and the various criteria and so on, but nothing else. Does anyone even know where to look?

EDIT: I conducted my search of the CBA using the standard "search" (i.e., word-finding) option. There's definitely nothing in the CBA on this issue.

Here you go

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ARTICLE 13

WAIVER DRAFT

13.22. The Waiver Draft will be conducted each year within the seven (7) days, but not less than three (3) days, prior to the opening of the regular season, by telephone conference call at a date and time as determined by the Commissioner or in accordance with the critical date calendar agreed to by the NHL and NHLPA. The NHLPA shall participate as an observer in the Waiver Draft.

13.23. Protected lists of eighteen (18) skaters and two (2) goalkeepers are to be submitted to Central Registry preceding the conduct of the draft, at a date and time as determined by the Commissioner.

13.24. Exemptions: Exempt from claim are:


All players and goalkeepers who, in the opinion of the Commissioner, are on bona fide military service for their country at the time of the Waiver Draft.

A player on the Free Agent List who signs a contract with a team outside the NHL may be exempted from claim in the Waiver Draft at the election of the Club. If such player, having been so exempted, returns to play during the season, the Club will be required to place him, or some other player on the Protected List at the time of the last Waiver Draft, on waivers.

All players who qualify as set forth in Article 13.4 above.
13.25. All other players on Reserve Lists (including players on Free Agent List) are offered on waivers with Clubs having right to claim based upon order of the last Entry Draft, without regard to the results of the Lottery and trades. Non-playoff Clubs shall claim for one round exclusively. In the second round and thereafter all Clubs may claim. Claim of a player from the Free Agent List transfers to the claiming Club whatever rights to equalization compensation were held by the Club from which the draft claim was made. No Club may claim a player from the Reserve List of a Club in its own division in the first round. "Playoff Club" and "non-playoff Club" as used in this Section relates to whether a Club participated in the immediately preceding playoffs

jamvan wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Dawg's Wife wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere other than here that the waiver order was oposite of the draft. This was to keep teams who had high draft picks from "doubling up" in the same year.

I don't understand. When can we find confirmation of this Wife of Dawg?

Here's how it worked for Recchi:

Recchi cleared waivers the day before, but now any team claiming the veteran will only be responsible for half his salary, with Pittsburgh picking up the other half. Waiver order is the reverse order of the standings, meaning Washington has first dibs. It is rumored that Phoenix, San Jose and Carolina are all interested in Recchi's services.

Ah, so they waived him, he went unclaimed, and then PIT, in an effort to save some cash (Recchi being over 35 at the time), brought him up through re-entry waivers and then ATL claimed him, yes? That is, he was never traded to anyone at any point, or signed to a new deal, right?

That makes sense. That definitely confirms, too, that ANA must either pay someone a draft/prospect to absorb the costs / cap hit of half of Schneider's salary, or bite the bullet and bring him through re-entry waivers themselves and get stuck with cost / cap hit themselves.

504Heater wrote:
I don't understand. When can we find confirmation of this Wife of Dawg?

Hehe whether I exist or not...

I assure you I am real, and I am a real hockey wife...not a puck bunny. I'm at all hockey games, and right now trying to con my parents into watching the kids, so my girlfriends and I can go on the Bingo trip.

Dawg's Wife wrote:
Here you go

<< Previous | ^ Back to Index ^ | Next >>
ARTICLE 13

WAIVER DRAFT

13.22. The Waiver Draft will be conducted each year within the seven (7) days, but not less than three (3) days, prior to the opening of the regular season, by telephone conference call at a date and time as determined by the Commissioner or in accordance with the critical date calendar agreed to by the NHL and NHLPA. The NHLPA shall participate as an observer in the Waiver Draft.

13.23. Protected lists of eighteen (18) skaters and two (2) goalkeepers are to be submitted to Central Registry preceding the conduct of the draft, at a date and time as determined by the Commissioner.

13.24. Exemptions: Exempt from claim are:


All players and goalkeepers who, in the opinion of the Commissioner, are on bona fide military service for their country at the time of the Waiver Draft.

A player on the Free Agent List who signs a contract with a team outside the NHL may be exempted from claim in the Waiver Draft at the election of the Club. If such player, having been so exempted, returns to play during the season, the Club will be required to place him, or some other player on the Protected List at the time of the last Waiver Draft, on waivers.

All players who qualify as set forth in Article 13.4 above.
13.25. All other players on Reserve Lists (including players on Free Agent List) are offered on waivers with Clubs having right to claim based upon order of the last Entry Draft, without regard to the results of the Lottery and trades. Non-playoff Clubs shall claim for one round exclusively. In the second round and thereafter all Clubs may claim. Claim of a player from the Free Agent List transfers to the claiming Club whatever rights to equalization compensation were held by the Club from which the draft claim was made. No Club may claim a player from the Reserve List of a Club in its own division in the first round. "Playoff Club" and "non-playoff Club" as used in this Section relates to whether a Club participated in the immediately preceding playoffs

*sigh* Now I'm more confused than ever.

Nevermind that the legalise here is giving me a headache but... where did you get these passages from? Please don't tell me the CBA, because the version of the CBA that I always use (http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf), which is a PDF facsimile version straight from NHL.com, doesn't have any of these clauses; in fact, article 13 only has 23 subsections, and not the minimum 25 subsections listed above...

Dawg's Wife wrote:

504Heater wrote:
I don't understand. When can we find confirmation of this Wife of Dawg?

Hehe whether I exist or not...

I assure you I am real, and I am a real hockey wife...not a puck bunny. I'm at all hockey games, and right now trying to con my parents into watching the kids, so my girlfriends and I can go on the Bingo trip.

:D That's not what I meant at all! I meant that I didn't understand which it was, was it 1st to 30th or 30th to 1st.

And then I meant, when can we find out for sure that it's 1st to 30th.

But...yeah....that would be awesome if you could get down to Bingo that weekend!

EDIT:
And I turned Dawg's Wife into Wife of Dawg - which might have confused the issue a little.

[quote="rooneypoo]

*sigh* Now I'm more confused than ever.

Nevermind that the legalise here is giving me a headache but... where did you get these passages from? Please don't tell me the CBA, because the version of the CBA that I always use (http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf), which is a PDF facsimile version straight from NHL.com, doesn't have any of these clauses; in fact, article 13 only has 23 subsections, and not the minimum 25 subsections listed above...[/quote]

Take it for what it's worth...I'm not 100% if it's the current cba

http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/archive/cba/article13.html