Schneider waived

rooneypoo wrote:
No way in hell ANA puts Schneider on re-entry waivers. That doesn't just happen; you put him there, calling him back up to the team. There's no way Burke would risk having to take on half of Schneider's big salary.

No one is getting Schneider at half-price. He will be claimed tomorrow at noon.

Huge chance of it happening. If no GM takes him by chance - and there is a chance of that - then the Ducks would still have to pay his salary against the cap (because he is 35 and healthy). He better clear...

I can't imagine him getting passed Phoenix. He would legitimize them in a big-Big way!

cash wrote:I can't imagine him getting passed Phoenix. He would legitimize them in a big-Big way!

I agree, but Anaheim has got to prepare for the possibility that no one would give them even a 7th round pick - and thus, why would anyone take him in the first pass at waivers.

Does Phoenix have a pretty serious internal cap? They'd have to be because they're only at 43 million. Maybe their internal cap is 45, Schneider would push it to almost 49, which is unacceptable.

Columbus is already at 48 and they definately have an internal cap.

Let's say LA just...doesn't want to spend 6 million dollars on a mentor for the kids.

San Jose is arse rammed against the cap, same with Washington, Montreal, Philly etc. etc. etc.

Hmmm...perhaps the plot thickens a little.

wow! Look at you Heater. Being an optimist?

I think it would be AWESOME if that went down, but as you and I have said countless times: I won't hold my breath!

Cronenbergfan wrote:wow! Look at you Heater. Being an optimist?

I think it would be AWESOME if that went down, but as you and I have said countless times: I won't hold my breath!

I really don't think he will make it out of the top 8 basement teams. I think he will end up in either LA or Atlanta.


30 Tampa Bay Lightning 2,542,500 – would need to move salary, but could help the young D on the team.
29 Los Angeles Kings 17,823,717 – needs to get to the floor could help the young D on the team.
28 Atlanta Thrashers 15,811,989 – needs to add excitement to the team and send a message to Kovolchuk they are trying to improve27 St Louis Blues 5,570,834
26 New York Islanders 12,893,433
25 Columbus Blue Jackets 6,125,000 – needs a PMD24 Toronto Maple Leafs 7,601,667
23 Phoenix Coyotes 13,008,750 – could really round out the D and make them contenders
22 Florida Panthers 2,825,000
21 Vancouver Canucks 8,984,167
20 Chicago Blackhawks 591,144
19 Edmonton Oilers 2,190,780
18 Buffalo Sabres 8,177,111
17 Nashville Predators 12,421,413
16 Carolina Hurricanes
15 Boston Bruins 1,363,334
14 Calgary Flames -890,834
13 Ottawa Senators 3,222,671
12 Washington Capitals -2,692,212
11 Philadelphia Flyers -1,031,667
10 Colorado Avalanche 8,880,417
9 New York Rangers -34,643
8 Dallas Stars 1,715,000
7 Minnesota Wild 4,063,223
6 New Jersey Devils 1,350,594
5 Anaheim Ducks -3,235,000
4 Pittsburgh Penguins 1,339,133
3 Montréal Canadiens 1,064,699
2 San Jose Sharks -225,834
1 Detroit Red Wings 226,667

If Phoenix was able to pick him up there D could be pretty decent and I think they would make some noise. As Yandle is an RFA I suspect they could send him down. If not it may give them some room to move an exsisting D to fill a need elsewhere.


Jovo – Schnieder

Morris – Sauer

Michalek - Hale/Jones

Yandle



The Thrashers would also build a decent D if they can get him.



Hainsey – Schneider

Exelby – Havelid

Klee - Bogosian

Enstrom



Pretty solid D. I suspect they would be more likely to try and pick him up.

504Heater wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
No way in hell ANA puts Schneider on re-entry waivers. That doesn't just happen; you put him there, calling him back up to the team. There's no way Burke would risk having to take on half of Schneider's big salary.

No one is getting Schneider at half-price. He will be claimed tomorrow at noon.

Huge chance of it happening. If no GM takes him by chance - and there is a chance of that - then the Ducks would still have to pay his salary against the cap (because he is 35 and healthy). He better clear...

When you put a guy on waivers, you're essentially kicking him off the team and clearing his salary off the cap. After that, there's a 24-hour period when teams can claim him. If (and this won't happen here, I don't think) no one puts in a waiver claim in that period, then the player has successfully passed through waivers -- and he does *not* automatically become subject to re-entry waivers at this point. In fact, quite to the contrary: at this time, if no one claims the player, the team that waived him still owns his rights and hold his contract: they can either buy him out, assign him to their minor affiliate (and pay his full NHL salary, albeit, it wouldn't count towards the cap), or try to convince him to retire.

Re-entry waivers are a whole other subject. They would only be an issue if ANA tried to bring Schneider back to the team -- i.e., if he passed through waivers and no one claimed him, and then ANA recalled him afterwards. Hence, if ANA never recalls Schneider, he never passes through re-entry waivers, and no one has the opportunity to get Schneider at half-price. That's why I say it's not going to happen. Why in the good lord's name would Burke take that chance? It just doesn't make sense. Strictly speaking, for this year anyway, if the goal is to create as much cap space as possible, it'd be cheaper to just buy him out -- that way, you'd only have 1/3rd of his salary counting against the cap (this year and next, and not 1/2.

Anyway, it's kind of a non-issue: someone will claim him for sure, and we'll know who it is after noon tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm not sure if you're right about the age thing and how his salary might continue to count against the cap even after he's waived. It's an interesting point and it would change the dynamics a bit if it is true -- but read Spector:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector/2008/09/16/Ducks_Place_Schneider_on_Waivers#comments

According to him, waiving Schneider gets his salary off their cap books.

Isn't it 2/3 for players over 27 years of age?

cash wrote:Isn't it 2/3 for players over 27 years of age?

Yep: it's 2/3rds of the contract over twice as many years as the contract is for. So, for Schneider, ANA would have 1/3rd of $5.625 against their cap this year, and 1/3rd of $5.625 against their cap next year. 1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3.

If the goal is to save the most cap space possible for this year, so they can squeeze Selanne it, then this option makes more sense than recall waivers.

Am I missing something here, or does this still only leave about $2.5m for Selanne?

To explain:
Anaheim is $1.75M over. They cut $5.75M by waiving Schneider, thus are $4m under. They want $1.5m in space for the season "buffer", thus only $2.5m left.

Is that enough? Or is Teemu taking that much of a discount?

Acrobat wrote:Am I missing something here, or does this still only leave about $2.5m for Selanne?

To explain:
Anaheim is $1.75M over. They cut $5.75M by waiving Schneider, thus are $4m under. They want $1.5m in space for the season "buffer", thus only $2.5m left.

Is that enough? Or is Teemu taking that much of a discount?

A couple of points on this one:

-- ANA has yet to cut down their roster to 20 or 21 players. My guess is that they'll lose a few dollars (probably $1+ mil) just by doing that.

-- Yes, Selanne will take a BIG discount, and probably settle for a contract in the $3 mil range. That's precisely what he did last year, after all.

-- Todd Marchant is the other guy who might be on the chopping block (trade, waivers, etc.). If they move his $2+ mil salary, they should have plenty of space.

rooneypoo wrote:
EDIT: I'm not sure if you're right about the age thing and how his salary might continue to count against the cap even after he's waived. It's an interesting point and it would change the dynamics a bit if it is true -- but read Spector:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector/2008/09/16/Ducks_Place_Schneider_on_Waivers#comments

According to him, waiving Schneider gets his salary off their cap books.

I swear to God Rooney, I don't understand that one. I thought for sure if he was over 35 and signed a contract, even if he was waived his salary counted.

We'll find out soon I guess - but yeah, he's not passing through waivers I don't think.

rooneypoo wrote:
To explain:
Anaheim is $1.75M over. They cut $5.75M by waiving Schneider, thus are $4m under. They want $1.5m in space for the season "buffer", thus only $2.5m left.

Is that enough? Or is Teemu taking that much of a discount?

A couple of points on this one:

-- ANA has yet to cut down their roster to 20 or 21 players. My guess is that they'll lose a few dollars (probably $1+ mil) just by doing that.

-- Yes, Selanne will take a BIG discount, and probably settle for a contract in the $3 mil range. That's precisely what he did last year, after all.

-- Todd Marchant is the other guy who might be on the chopping block (trade, waivers, etc.). If they move his $2+ mil salary, they should have plenty of space.[/quote]

Are they only 1.75 over?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=ANA

Good point on the roster, they'll cut 2 of those for sure. So, is it 2.5 they would be over, then subtract 5.7 for Schneider, leaving 2.75...then Marchant would make 5.25 and Selanne gets 4 million.

1.25 million buffer.

Oh that's nasty. It actually works. They could trade a 1 million dollar contract and hang on to Marchant if there's no market for him, or waiver him too and hope someone takes him on re-entry.

504Heater wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:EDIT: I'm not sure if you're right about the age thing and how his salary might continue to count against the cap even after he's waived. It's an interesting point and it would change the dynamics a bit if it is true -- but read Spector: http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector/2008/09/16/Ducks_Place_Schneider_on_Waivers#commentsAccording to him, waiving Schneider gets his salary off their cap books.

I swear to God Rooney, I don't understand that one. I thought for sure if he was over 35 and signed a contract, even if he was waived his salary counted. We'll find out soon I guess - but yeah, he's not passing through waivers I don't think.

Hey Heater, I think you might be confusing that players over 35, when bought out, their money counts 100% for the cap?

just guessing but it sounds right!

BigRig77 wrote:Hey Heater, I think you might be confusing that players over 35, when bought out, their money counts 100% for the cap?

just guessing but it sounds right!

I believe the buy-out structure changes at 26 for players in the NHL. Under 26, the club must pay 1/3 of the averaged salary for twice the amount of the remaining years. For players over 26, they must pay 2/3 the averaged salary over twice the amount of remaining years.

In Schneider's case that would be,

5.625 * 0.667 = 3.751875 / 2 (he only has one year remaining, so the money is split into two years of payment). That figure comes up to 1.876 per year for the next two years. Not a horrible amount, but in terms of cap space, I don't see why he wouldn't just put him on re-entry waivers and avoid next season's unnecessary cap hit for the buy-out. Especially, considering they have only 5 forwards, 1 defenseman, and 2 goalies signed. That nearly 2 million cap hit for the buy-out could be a horrible, horrible thing for them.
Not that he might care much if he leaves for Toronto.

That's what is so mind-boggling to me. This is a blatant blunder in my view, and yet some still think Burke will be Toronto's savior.

Now, opinions vary, I get that. For instance, I think Murray is brilliant and there's NO shortage of people who disagree with me on that, but this is a mess for the ducks.

Although, I think perhaps there may be some truth to argument that Burke did these things under the impression he wouldn't STILL be GM'ing the ducks...

504Heater wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
EDIT: I'm not sure if you're right about the age thing and how his salary might continue to count against the cap even after he's waived. It's an interesting point and it would change the dynamics a bit if it is true -- but read Spector:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector/2008/09/16/Ducks_Place_Schneider_on_Waivers#comments

According to him, waiving Schneider gets his salary off their cap books.

I swear to God Rooney, I don't understand that one. I thought for sure if he was over 35 and signed a contract, even if he was waived his salary counted.

We'll find out soon I guess - but yeah, he's not passing through waivers I don't think.

You are indeed right about Schneider's salary counting against the team's cap even if he clears waivers, Heater, and it has everything to do with his age and the length of the contract. Check out the Spector link -- he's deleted the old paragraph and added in a new one to this effect.

That is pretty interesting, and it does change the dynamics.

In any event, I know that buyouts work the same for players over 35 (see Glen Murray's situation). If it came down to it, I think the buyout route would be preferable to a recall waiver claim if the goal is to clear as much cap space this year as possible to sign Selanne -- in a buyout scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/3 of Schneider's salary (about $1.875 mil), and in a recall waiver claim scenario, they'd have a cap hit of 1/2 of Schneider's salary (about $2.8125 mil). The former option makes the most sense to me if the goal is to make space now: a $1 mil difference is pretty substantial in today's salary cap era (albeit, granted, they'd be stuck with another $1.875 cap hit again next season).

In any event, no, I still don't think it likely it will come to this, and that he'll be claimed by another team at noon today.

Well it's official Ottawa will not be taking a chance on Schneider.

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators/2008/09/17/6791796.html

I think either way, unless he's picked up off waivers and a team doesn't mind paying through the face for a 39 year old injury risk, that the Ducks are Diddle. I just looked at next year's numbers, and they are up Dung creek without a boat or a paddle.
They have 32 million committed to 5 forwards, 1 defenseman and 2 goalies. Assuming the cap goes up to an even 60 million, that leaves them with 28 million for at least 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, or an average of 2.333 million per player.
Good luck to whoever is GM'ing that team to build a playoff caliber squad.