OPENING NIGHT-NJ Devils @ Ottawa Senators - New Baby and Engagement Edition

LeKing wrote:MacLean hiimself said the penalties are lazy penalties.
Enough with the Leafs conspiracy whatever.

Never said that there weren't legit calls. Just saying that the blatant non-calls and the additional marginal calls are brutal and that the timing of many calls are suspect. That's just a fact.

LeKing wrote:MacLean hiimself said the penalties are lazy penalties.
Enough with the Leafs conspiracy whatever.

Yup, getting a little sick of that as well. People are either just too dumb to notice or want to make up things that simply aren't true because they can't believe their team is this bad at this point.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

LeKing wrote:MacLean hiimself said the penalties are lazy penalties.
Enough with the Leafs conspiracy whatever.

Never said that there weren't legit calls. Just saying that the blatant non-calls and the additional marginal calls are brutal and that the timing of many calls are suspect. That's just a fact.

Well, if you don't hook or grab, the refs have no reason to call so timiing or not there is no penalty.
I have yet to see a Sens penalty this season where I said WTFFF??

They might be caught up in the hype around the team this year and haven't been working as hard thinking they're good enough to win by coasting.  The past 2 years we've been pegged as a lottery team.

We're not an underdog anymore.

LeKing wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

LeKing wrote:MacLean hiimself said the penalties are lazy penalties.
Enough with the Leafs conspiracy whatever.

Never said that there weren't legit calls. Just saying that the blatant non-calls and the additional marginal calls are brutal and that the timing of many calls are suspect. That's just a fact.

Well, if you don't hook or grab, the refs have no reason to call so timiing or not there is no penalty.
I have yet to see a Sens penalty this season where I said WTFFF??

Anyway, Cowen in particular was tripping over his own skates and flailing his stick in Devil's skates all night long. Brunner cut Phillips off late in the game and Phillips got called for falling on the guy pretty much. The hook on Ryan was so-so. I'm just going on memory here but whatever some good calls some bad, some non calls. It all adds up.

Hoags wrote:They might be caught up in the hype around the team this year and haven't been working as hard thinking they're good enough to win by coasting.  The past 2 years we've been pegged as a lottery team.

We're not an underdog anymore.

Well said, Hogues.

I wonder if Pete DeBoer has enough authority to make Schneider the #1? Poor bastard couldn't even pull Fraudeur because I think The Fraud is still running the team like he did when he got Claude Julien fired.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Michallica wrote:Cowen and weircioch have both been atrocious, but I'm especially disappointed in cowen.  Basically he most dependable dman we got right now believe it or not is phillips.  There just doesn't seem to be any cohesion with any ofour d-pairings.

Give me Corvo next game over gryba.

What's so hard to believe? Nothing wrong with that guy except anyone over 29 has to go according to some people.  Scorevo is the shizz.

Well not to say phillips sucks, but he had been relegated to 3rd pairing duties. I think it's more a knock on the rest of the crew than on phillips. The likes of karlsson, team canada methot, future chara cowen, etc. None of these guys can cut it defensively lately.

It's stupid to keep Pageau up to give him less than 10 minutes unless they think he has no offensive upside whatsoever. Let him play top minutes in Bingo and let Grant fill in his spot. Grant is all but developed down there.

NEELY wrote:How do shots against and penalties relate to being lazy?  Simple.  You don't move your feet, you reach, you grab, or you miss.  Reaching and grabbing lead to penalties being called, missing those checks and hooks or holds lead to shots and scoring chances.  Fact is if you are working hard, moving your feet, and thinking out on the ice there is a better chance that you come away with the puck and with those battles without taking penalties or giving up scoring chances.

Sens are a lazy team right now especially in their own zone.  It could be because they are tired and just need to be home for a little bit to get settled into the season but there is no question the penalties being taken by the Sens are legit.  Even if all the penalties go called on the other team and the Sens (which never happens) the Sens would still be taking more than the other team each night.  

I was *specifically* talking about the high-stick call on Gryba. He was skating behind the goal with his stick higher than it should have been. The puck had already been rimmed around so he was not fighting with the guy for possession or position. That was not a lazy penalty. In fact I don't know it it's a penalty at all, as it was more of the Devils player running into the stick than the stick running into him.

I don't disagree that the Sens have been playing poorly -- especially in their own zone -- and that *some* of the penalties they have taken were of the lazy variety (although I think it's more fair to say that most have been of the stupid variety). Just not this particular one.

Phillips had an interesting quote the other day. I only heard it second hand so it's not verbatim, but essentially he said they are not being lazy, they *are* trying. They are just often in the wrong place and are running around -- which is way more difficult than being in the right place and barely having to move. They are a step behind and getting that hooking/holding penalty but they are not a step behind necessarily because they are lazy.

Saying the Sens are a lazy team right now is factually incorrect. They may be slow or out of position but check them out in-between shifts and the interviews between periods. They are breathing heavily, sweating profusely -- not lazy.

Again, give these guys some time to rest in Ottawa, in their own beds, and practice on their own ice. Early Nov and through the month is where you will see what kind of team the Sens have and where they are headed, tough to judge a team that started 6 on the road including going out west.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:How do shots against and penalties relate to being lazy?  Simple.  You don't move your feet, you reach, you grab, or you miss.  Reaching and grabbing lead to penalties being called, missing those checks and hooks or holds lead to shots and scoring chances.  Fact is if you are working hard, moving your feet, and thinking out on the ice there is a better chance that you come away with the puck and with those battles without taking penalties or giving up scoring chances.

Sens are a lazy team right now especially in their own zone.  It could be because they are tired and just need to be home for a little bit to get settled into the season but there is no question the penalties being taken by the Sens are legit.  Even if all the penalties go called on the other team and the Sens (which never happens) the Sens would still be taking more than the other team each night.  

I was *specifically* talking about the high-stick call on Gryba.  He was skating behind the goal with his stick higher than it should have been.  The puck had already been rimmed around so he was not fighting with the guy for possession or position.  That was not a lazy penalty.  In fact I don't know it it's a penalty at all, as it was more of the Devils player running into the stick than the stick running into him.

I don't disagree that the Sens have been playing poorly -- especially in their own zone -- and that *some* of the penalties they have taken were of the lazy variety (although I think it's more fair to say that most have been of the stupid variety).  Just not this particular one.

Phillips had an interesting quote the other day.  I only heard it second hand so it's not verbatim, but essentially he said they are not being lazy, they *are* trying.  They are just often in the wrong place and are running around -- which is way more difficult than being in the right place and barely having to move.  They are a step behind and getting that hooking/holding penalty but they are not a step behind necessarily because they are lazy.

Saying the Sens are a lazy team right now is factually incorrect.  They may be slow or out of position but check them out in-between shifts and the interviews between periods.  They are breathing heavily, sweating profusely -- not lazy.

I don't even know how to respond to this one.

Michallica wrote:Cowen and weircioch have both been atrocious, but I'm especially disappointed in cowen.  Basically he most dependable dman we got right now believe it or not is phillips.  There just doesn't seem to be any cohesion with any ofour d-pairings.

Give me Corvo next game over gryba.

I'd say give me Boro over Cowen. Gryba missed most of camp and half of the regular season games (prior to last night), and the whole team stayed overnight in Phoenix and travelled home on Thursday, completely screwing up their rhythm. Saturday should be better but it's an afternoon game (morning game for the Oilers).

Yeah put in Boro over Cowen. Makes a lot of sense...

I'd say Neely is right.  The team is playing sloppy and taking lazy penalties even MacLean said so.  That will hopefully straighten itself out.  I do think the Sens get little benefit of the doubt from the refs for whatever reason but they give the refs lots of easy textbook calls.

I'd say it's a good sign when we win games we don't deserve to win, that's how you ride out games when you play like Dung, whether it's your goalie who bails you out or the teams scores 5-6 goals.  These points will be money come April.

Things should settle down in the next month as the team gets more time together and more practice time.  MacLean is too good of a coach to let this Dung slide.  Maybe a person or two will get sent down and called up from Bingo if they have to, I'd say that is likely.

NEELY wrote:I don't even know how to respond to this one.  

Au contraire, I think that response was perfect  

Hoags wrote:I'd say Neely is right.  The team is playing sloppy and taking lazy penalties even MacLean said so.  That will hopefully straighten itself out.  I do think the Sens get little benefit of the doubt from the refs for whatever reason but they give the refs lots of easy textbook calls.

I'd say it's a good sign when we win games we don't deserve to win, that's how you ride out games when you play like Dung, whether it's your goalie who bails you out or the teams scores 5-6 goals.  These points will be money come April.

Things should settle down in the next month as the team gets more time together and more practice time.  MacLean is too good of a coach to let this Dung slide.  Maybe a person or two will get sent down and called up from Bingo if they have to, I'd say that is likely.

Filatov taking a hooking penalty when he mostly sits on the bench, dry as a bone, not breathing heavily -- *that* is a lazy penalty. If the guy is running around because he was out of position in the first place -- but still running around to the best of his abilities -- that is not a lazy penalty. Poor positioning, maybe out of shape (or tired after the road trip and game-day travel). Sure there are some lazy penalties, but not all.

As for PMac saying they are lazy, he says a lot of things. Sometimes it just an expression, you know? Plus he's just a fisherman from down East.

NEELY wrote:Gryba's stick made contact with Elias' face... it's black and white. It was a penalty. And the tripping call on Gryba in the 2nd the guy didn't even really get his skates and that was called. Either way, the reffing so far this year isn't the reason why the Sens are taking penalties more so than the other team. Should we also blame the amount of shots given up and scoring chances to the refs as well?

Sens have been soundly out played in a lot of games this year already and have given up the most shots against in the NHL. This is on them. People need to stop blaming the refs.

I agree for the most part, although I have no idea what the hell Cowen did to deserve his first penalty other than be a large person. Conacher could probably complain that he draws 3 or 4 blatant penalties a game that aren't called, but with his diving antics last year it is no surprise. Karlsson's rep as a diver, deserved or not, limits how many penalties he draws as well.

On the other hand, how can one team have been on the negative side of the PP/PK time ledger for 7 years in a row?

Clouston did a lot to hurt the Sens rep with the refs, that's for sure. They need to earn the benefit of the doubt here and as of yet, they haven't.