GDT: Preseason #4 - MTL @ OTT - 25/09/2010 - 7:00 PM

SpezDispenser wrote:I think it'll be exactly that, but with Lee as the reserve D-man. Which is odd because I think he's soundly outplaying a few guys right now.

I've been very impressed with Lee already this preseason. Nice to see him finally get some praise on this site. I have defended him every chance I get and finally others are realizing that maybe not every player that gets drafted makes an immediate impact, especially goalies and defensemen.

It takes longer to learn to play in the NHL than it does to learn to make fun of someone on the internet.

How did Gonchar look last night? I see he logged 24:25min in ice time.

I believe this game confirms that the Cup is coming to Ottawa this year!

Sir Jay Gonchar and Jared Cohen looked like Norris candidates.

shabbs wrote:How did Gonchar look last night? I see he logged 24:25min in ice time.

Really good. And no need to worry or doubt about his defensive play, if there was ever any doubt to begin with. He hustled back on a clear breakaway for Montreal, dove and took the puck away.

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think it'll be exactly that, but with Lee as the reserve D-man. Which is odd because I think he's soundly outplaying a few guys right now.

I've been very impressed with Lee already this preseason. Nice to see him finally get some praise on this site. I have defended him every chance I get and finally others are realizing that maybe not every player that gets drafted makes an immediate impact, especially goalies and defensemen.

It takes longer to learn to play in the NHL than it does to learn to make fun of someone on the internet.

I think it was unfair to have treated him so poorly based on his draft position and slow development. I am guilty of it too. But I give him a lot of credit for the way he's played. And I give him a lot of respect for dropping the gloves with Hanson, though apparently the league has no respect for Lee after seeing his face driven into the ice.

Dash wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think it'll be exactly that, but with Lee as the reserve D-man. Which is odd because I think he's soundly outplaying a few guys right now.

I've been very impressed with Lee already this preseason. Nice to see him finally get some praise on this site. I have defended him every chance I get and finally others are realizing that maybe not every player that gets drafted makes an immediate impact, especially goalies and defensemen.

It takes longer to learn to play in the NHL than it does to learn to make fun of someone on the internet.

I think it was unfair to have treated him so poorly based on his draft position and slow development. I am guilty of it too. But I give him a lot of credit for the way he's played. And I give him a lot of respect for dropping the gloves with Hanson, though apparently the league has no respect for Lee after seeing his face driven into the ice.

That's the jist of what I said about 2 weeks ago too. It's not his fault he was drafted where he was. Thanks for that Dash.

I wouldn't call his development slow though, who are you comparing his develpment to when you say that? I don't think anybody expected him to be a Doughty, Bogo, Phaneuf, etc, etc. Lee's progression was bound to be a process as he was taken from high school, not Junior. That is a huge part of Lee's maturation that people need to remember when qualifying his play.

Lee is doing fine and will continue to progress. I'm glad his game is finally to a point where I don't have to read or hear about his how bad he sucks from people sitting at home drinking and then going to play in their beer league.

Dash wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think it'll be exactly that, but with Lee as the reserve D-man. Which is odd because I think he's soundly outplaying a few guys right now.

I've been very impressed with Lee already this preseason. Nice to see him finally get some praise on this site. I have defended him every chance I get and finally others are realizing that maybe not every player that gets drafted makes an immediate impact, especially goalies and defensemen.

It takes longer to learn to play in the NHL than it does to learn to make fun of someone on the internet.

I think it was unfair to have treated him so poorly based on his draft position and slow development. I am guilty of it too. But I give him a lot of credit for the way he's played. And I give him a lot of respect for dropping the gloves with Hanson, though apparently the league has no respect for Lee after seeing his face driven into the ice.

I think the universal complaint against Lee is that he's been butter-soft up to now. That, and he has a muffin of a shot. Both of which combine to leave him in a rather in-between place -- not physical enough to be a defensive defender, and not lethal enough to be an offensive defender.

Lee will always be a bottom pairing guy, at best, because of those things. He can skate and he can pass and move the puck, for sure, but those other two limitations are always going to hold him to a 5/6 pairing guy at best.

Still, I agree, he's looked really good so far this year, and I think he'll probably start the year with us, in Kuba's spot, as a result.

As for our forwards, we've got a real log jam on our hands right now. I'm liking Butler's and Smith's games, and even Hoffman's. But with Regin and Foligno fighting for that spot on the 1st / 2nd line -- and Foligno winning handily, right now -- and the 3rd line of Ruutu-Kelly-Neil pretty much locked up (people call them the 4th, but they have always been the 3rd), that only leaves a spot on the '4th' line open. And you have to imagine that that goes to Smith, who plays a rougher game, making that '4th' line Regin/Foligno - Smith - Winchester. Which is actually a pretty decent line, when you think about it.

We could honestly pull together 5 NHL-ready lines this year -- it's a nice problem for the organization to have, for sure, but a tough one for bubble guys like Butler. Butler either has to win a scoring role, or go to the AHL.

As an aside to the above discussion, anyone have full game highlights of last night's game? Sort of like the game in six minutes that LeafsTV does.

I don't know if it's just me but I am not a big fan of some reactions on the internet about some players after 4 preseason games.
For instance, Cowen looks great in Dev Camp, then the talks is about Trading Lee for a 5th, then Cowen doesn't impress at rookie tournament and should be sent back to Junior. Then Kuba gets hurt and the word is to send Campoli in the top 4 because he looked in good shape. Now after 2 average preseason games from him it's : "Campoli to Bingo, Cowen on the top 6 with Lee" etc.
Pretty sure after 2 bad games Lee will get bust status back and Campoli will be back on the top 6 again...

its not just that lee was soft. I hated his attitude in years past, and I think many people will agree with me. He didn't have the right attitude at times and has reportedly verbally sparred with Clouston. He let the frustration of being sent to the ahl get to him and never channeled it the right way. How many times did he earn the right to be sent up? Zilch. People get excited when he played very well in the playoffs against the pens in 2008 as an injury replacement, and I think management spoiled him as well (murray indicating publicly that he had a roster spot for Lee in the upcoming season). what did he do after? he screwed up, got sent down, sulked. Didn't have the most impressive numbers either in the AHL, so yeah I think these events happening over the past 2.5 seasons is enough to raise doubts in people's minds.

Lee was going no where until he mustered up enough self-confidence and determination to make the team. He's looked impressive so far in the pre-season, and b¥ all accounts is in great shape too, so perhaps he's finally learned his lesson. But he deserved the scrutiny. I hope he's turned it around

PKC wrote:As an aside to the above discussion, anyone have full game highlights of last night's game? Sort of like the game in six minutes that LeafsTV does.

The longest one I found was on RDS.ca. THey have all goals and a few good highlights.

marakh wrote:I don't know if it's just me but I am not a big fan of some reactions on the internet about some players after 4 preseason games.
For instance, Cowen looks great in Dev Camp, then the talks is about Trading Lee for a 5th, then Cowen doesn't impress at rookie tournament and should be sent back to Junior. Then Kuba gets hurt and the word is to send Campoli in the top 4 because he looked in good shape. Now after 2 average preseason games from him it's : "Campoli to Bingo, Cowen on the top 6 with Lee" etc.
Pretty sure after 2 bad games Lee will get bust status back and Campoli will be back on the top 6 again...

In a way, I miss the days when pre-season games weren't broadcast. It saves a great deal of judgment. Some are ridiculous, or tongue in cheek, I don't know. If Kuba weren't injured, I think Cowen and Lee might not have looked so impressive (not to say they are wowing anybod¥, but they've been better than others). Pre-season is about this t¥pe of competition, and the one for a spot on the top 6 (foligno FTW...but its pre-season).

Anyways, the amplification is there cause of the media and simply because of that only. In the end, alot of us forget its an exhibition game, and its not just in Ottawa. Booing Carey Price and Dion Phaneuf, grimacing at saves leclaire and elliot didn't make, its all the same stuff. I thought Alfie struggled yesterday, but its just a warmup for the vets so there's no need to get too concerned about this kind of stuff. SSF actually articulates the reactions the best

marakh wrote:I don't know if it's just me but I am not a big fan of some reactions on the internet about some players after 4 preseason games.
For instance, Cowen looks great in Dev Camp, then the talks is about Trading Lee for a 5th, then Cowen doesn't impress at rookie tournament and should be sent back to Junior. Then Kuba gets hurt and the word is to send Campoli in the top 4 because he looked in good shape. Now after 2 average preseason games from him it's : "Campoli to Bingo, Cowen on the top 6 with Lee" etc.
Pretty sure after 2 bad games Lee will get bust status back and Campoli will be back on the top 6 again...

That's why I don't get involved in the day-to-day discussion about who will be playing where. I will wait till the season starts and let management figure that out who made the team and where they will play. After that happens, I will watch and be a fan of everybody on the team because they deserve to be there. Some games will be good; some will be bad, but that happens and should be expected.

All I know right now, is that Lee is an NHL player and his career is just beginning like almost every defenseman taken with the 9th overall pick out of high school.

i can remember when everyone was worried we had no young forward prospects. now we can't figure out what to do with some of them.....

although we aren't exactly the oilers of the east in the prospect deparment quite yet.

PKC wrote:
What are you guys on about with Butler? He plays the game at the NHL level, what exactly, if anything, is he supposed to be learning in the minors? Butler's on your opening day roster. As is Lee.

We don't have a space for Butler until the unfortunate injury to someone comes. He's your first call-up and he leap-frogs Shannon who now has no space on this team IMO. If there's not an injury by opening day, then Butler will start in Bingo and be called up, I can't see another way personally.

rooneypoo wrote:
I think the universal complaint against Lee is that he's been butter-soft up to now. That, and he has a muffin of a shot. Both of which combine to leave him in a rather in-between place -- not physical enough to be a defensive defender, and not lethal enough to be an offensive defender.

Lee will always be a bottom pairing guy, at best, because of those things. He can skate and he can pass and move the puck, for sure, but those other two limitations are always going to hold him to a 5/6 pairing guy at best.

Still, I agree, he's looked really good so far this year, and I think he'll probably start the year with us, in Kuba's spot, as a result.

This would be my exact post regarding Lee. And I'm definitely on board now in terms of how he's playing in pre-season. He appears to have turned his game around and become more confident rushing the puck and more aggressive in the defensive zone. He has to continue obviously though.

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:
What are you guys on about with Butler? He plays the game at the NHL level, what exactly, if anything, is he supposed to be learning in the minors? Butler's on your opening day roster. As is Lee.

We don't have a space for Butler until the unfortunate injury to someone comes. He's your first call-up and he leap-frogs Shannon who now has no space on this team IMO. If there's not an injury by opening day, then Butler will start in Bingo and be called up, I can't see another way personally.

Then you make room.

Folign-Spezza-Alfredsson
Michalek-Fisher-Kovalev
Winchester/Regin-Smith-Butler
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil

So maybe Winchester sees a lot of time in the box; or maybe moves to C and Smith sees some time in the box. And maybe some games Butler is in the box.

Why sit either of those 3 guys in the press box and stunt development though? We can wait until there's an injury (and there will be injuries) and then call Butler up after he gets a little bit of seasoning at the AHL level (I know I keep harping on this, but look at what it did for Karlsson).