POLL: Which Senators prospect are you most excited about?

I'm gonna go ahead and say it again:

I think Murray's believes Noesen's upside is higher (than Foligno's).

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
Where do people come up with this stuff? It's #1 and because our whole pool is deep.

Because people can put 2 and 2 together?

No, it's called speculating out of one's arse.

I think Noesen will get in front of the net a little more, closer in because of the little edge he has. IMO that's what seperates the two. One is born and bread in NA and the other plays a very NA type game but hasn't developed the attitude or mind set to play in NA and be successful.

I put a lot of stock into the attitude of a player and their mind set. A guy that will bang goals in at the side of the net who can actually do the job is a lot harder to find that will go around and bang bodies but doesn't really have that edge to make him successful.

My opinion switches because I've watched both guys play a little more, 2 years ago I may have read some little clips about Noesen but I never paid attention. OHL package I get to watch him play whenever I want now.

So yah, like I said, the edge that Noesen has will seperate the two. I like a guy who will punch a guy in the face just because he wants to and laugh about vs a guy who won't really do anything until he's hit himself. Maybe that changes with Zibanejad over the next little while but as of right now, I like Noesen better and I think he will be a better goal scorer at the NHL level.

EDIT: And opinions change, if they didn't you end up like Columbus. You take things as they come, it's not flip flopping, it's being open minded. I see something I like, it's a positive and I state as much, if I see something I don't, same deal. Simple as that. Over the last year I have seen a lot I like about Noesen and Zibanejad has been very "meh" for me, not good, not bad, just yah, he'll be a good player.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:
That's my opinion... can't be wrong or right at this point because last time I checked all the guys you have ahead of him have played a combined what? 12, 13 games? I think long term he will be the guy that the Sens will have as their top line winger and the guy who scores that big goal when they need it most.

As for Zibanejad, I don't see a ton of offensive creativity or the upside a lot of people talk about. I like him as a meh 2nd line center, great 3rd line center. Just not a huge fan of guys that go up and down the ice looking just to get a shot on net. That's what I see in his game. Not hating on the kid, just think he's limited in what he can do on the offensive side of things.

Can't disagree that it's your opinion and it can be neither right nor wrong. After al you *did* preface it by saying "I think ..."

Now, on that bolded part, pretty sure you said that would be Greening yesterday (maybe day before).

Yah, I see Greening as that type of player too. Guys that just get really ugly goal.

For wprager and those who NEED YouTube highlights to judge a player, here is an unlisted video of Zibanejad's SEL stint + playoffs from a year ago. It is unlisted so you may not have seen it before.

NEELY wrote:I think Noesen will get in front of the net a little more, closer in because of the little edge he has. IMO that's what seperates the two. One is born and bread in NA and the other plays a very NA type game but hasn't developed the attitude or mind set to play in NA and be successful.

I put a lot of stock into the attitude of a player and their mind set. A guy that will bang goals in at the side of the net who can actually do the job is a lot harder to find that will go around and bang bodies but doesn't really have that edge to make him successful.

My opinion switches because I've watched both guys play a little more, 2 years ago I may have read some little clips about Noesen but I never paid attention. OHL package I get to watch him play whenever I want now.

So yah, like I said, the edge that Noesen has will seperate the two. I like a guy who will punch a guy in the face just because he wants to and laugh about vs a guy who won't really do anything until he's hit himself. Maybe that changes with Zibanejad over the next little while but as of right now, I like Noesen better and I think he will be a better goal scorer at the NHL level.

EDIT: And opinions change, if they didn't you end up like Columbus. You take things as they come, it's not flip flopping, it's being open minded. I see something I like, it's a positive and I state as much, if I see something I don't, same deal. Simple as that. Over the last year I have seen a lot I like about Noesen and Zibanejad has been very "meh" for me, not good, not bad, just yah, he'll be a good player.

you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

anyways both these guys will be good players for our team, so I really don't care who ends up being better. I think they're both guys who will crash the net, they will both score goals, and they will both be clutch as they have shown in their brief careers so far. As of right now the hockey world heavily prefers one guy over the other, though.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
Where do people come up with this stuff? It's #1 and because our whole pool is deep.

Because people can put 2 and 2 together?

No, it's called speculating out of one's arse.

Not really. Zibanejad is worth a ton + we have a guy who plays a similar game, drafted the same year and having success right here in NA. Not a stretch to think that's why Zibanejad's in play.

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

Big Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

You do realize that you were pumping his tires here way before anyone else, and with much more "vigor". I still remember checking highlights on YouTube and being able to find *just one* and wondering what is it that NEELY sees in this kid? Although I have to admit I loved that play where he steals the puck back from the defenseman and scores a goal.

lol, because we all know YouTube highlights are what really matters when it comes to a prospect and their skill level...

Please don't bring up YouTube again when discussing prospects.

Thanks you for missing my point

The fact that there were only two highlights of him is what I was tying to draw the attention to (not that I liked one of them). Perhaps if I did the search now there will be three highlights (although that third one is also quite impressive).

Don't get me wrong -- I like Zibanejad, but when all the hype hit feverpitch last year I thought he needed a year or two in the AHL. I'm *hoping* this year he will start in the AHL but maybe get a callup at some time. However Murray's commends from the DC (he expected/wanted more) make me think he will still need 1-2 full seasons in the AHL.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:I think Noesen will get in front of the net a little more, closer in because of the little edge he has. IMO that's what seperates the two. One is born and bread in NA and the other plays a very NA type game but hasn't developed the attitude or mind set to play in NA and be successful.

I put a lot of stock into the attitude of a player and their mind set. A guy that will bang goals in at the side of the net who can actually do the job is a lot harder to find that will go around and bang bodies but doesn't really have that edge to make him successful.

My opinion switches because I've watched both guys play a little more, 2 years ago I may have read some little clips about Noesen but I never paid attention. OHL package I get to watch him play whenever I want now.

So yah, like I said, the edge that Noesen has will seperate the two. I like a guy who will punch a guy in the face just because he wants to and laugh about vs a guy who won't really do anything until he's hit himself. Maybe that changes with Zibanejad over the next little while but as of right now, I like Noesen better and I think he will be a better goal scorer at the NHL level.

EDIT: And opinions change, if they didn't you end up like Columbus. You take things as they come, it's not flip flopping, it's being open minded. I see something I like, it's a positive and I state as much, if I see something I don't, same deal. Simple as that. Over the last year I have seen a lot I like about Noesen and Zibanejad has been very "meh" for me, not good, not bad, just yah, he'll be a good player.

you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

anyways both these guys will be good players for our team, so I really don't care who ends up being better. I think they're both guys who will crash the net, they will both score goals, and they will both be clutch as they have shown in their brief careers so far. As of right now the hockey world heavily prefers one guy over the other, though.

The hockey world also had Filatov as the #1 prospect on the planet about 3 years ago.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

wprager wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

You do realize that you were pumping his tires here way before anyone else, and with much more "vigor". I still remember checking highlights on YouTube and being able to find *just one* and wondering what is it that NEELY sees in this kid? Although I have to admit I loved that play where he steals the puck back from the defenseman and scores a goal.

lol, because we all know YouTube highlights are what really matters when it comes to a prospect and their skill level...

Please don't bring up YouTube again when discussing prospects.

Thanks you for missing my point

The fact that there were only two highlights of him is what I was tying to draw the attention to (not that I liked one of them). Perhaps if I did the search now there will be three highlights (although that third one is also quite impressive).

Don't get me wrong -- I like Zibanejad, but when all the hype hit feverpitch last year I thought he needed a year or two in the AHL. I'm *hoping* this year he will start in the AHL but maybe get a callup at some time. However Murray's commends from the DC (he expected/wanted more) make me think he will still need 1-2 full seasons in the AHL.

This was never a comment made by Murray. It was made by MacLean after the scrimmage. Then Zibanejad was the best player and won the 3 on 3 the final day.

and you missed *my* point. The amount of YouTube highlights a guy has has no indication of how good he is as a player. Hampus Lindholm, drafted #6 overall this year, has none. Who cares.

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

What do you mean by a "year behind"?

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

Between WJC and NHL... 13, 14 games? Enough to form an opinion. SEL maybe a couple. It's eough to look at a guy and determine what kind of habits he has. Most ammature scouts don't get to see a player more than that through the year.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

Between WJC and NHL... 13, 14 games? Enough to form an opinion. SEL maybe a couple. It's eough to look at a guy and determine what kind of habits he has. Most ammature scouts don't get to see a player more than that through the year.

I agree but you also sometimes have different habits for different roles/positions. His style of play in the NHL, WJC, and SEL was all different in my opinion, due to changing roles and different positions. I think he plays the way you described when he plays wing and differently when he plays centre. Just my take from watching a lot of his action this year.