POLL: Which Senators prospect are you most excited about?

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

What do you mean by a "year behind"?

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

Between WJC and NHL... 13, 14 games? Enough to form an opinion. SEL maybe a couple. It's eough to look at a guy and determine what kind of habits he has. Most ammature scouts don't get to see a player more than that through the year.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

Between WJC and NHL... 13, 14 games? Enough to form an opinion. SEL maybe a couple. It's eough to look at a guy and determine what kind of habits he has. Most ammature scouts don't get to see a player more than that through the year.

I agree but you also sometimes have different habits for different roles/positions. His style of play in the NHL, WJC, and SEL was all different in my opinion, due to changing roles and different positions. I think he plays the way you described when he plays wing and differently when he plays centre. Just my take from watching a lot of his action this year.

I just have questions about guys who don't like having the puck. To me he gets rid of it to quickly and that translate into whether or not you win puck battles vs being in the correct position. He's always where he should be, never wants to be where the puck will be... just make take. Hitchcock type player.

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

What do you mean by a "year behind"?

Foligno had his breakout year in the OHL a year later than Noesen - who had it this year. So developmentally, I'd say Noesen's ahead of the curve. We'll see how this year is, I expect Noesen to kill it.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

But again I ask, how many games have you seen him play? You never answered this.

Which was my point earlier, or part of it. NEELY had nothing to go on but the two YouTube clips, yet he said Zibanejad was ready for the NHL.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

But according to your assessment he should have immediately looked for someone to pass it.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

What do you mean by a "year behind"?

Foligno had his breakout year in the OHL a year later than Noesen - who had it this year. So developmentally, I'd say Noesen's ahead of the curve. We'll see how this year is, I expect Noesen to kill it.

Both had their best years after being drafted. I don't know what you're referring to.

Noesen (drafted 2011):



Foligno (drafted 2006):

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

Also, if he was in the right position, but you said he doesn't go where the puck will be which is kinda/sorta opposite.

Anyhow, let's just stop it, this is getting silly. You were super high on this guy after seeing two YouTube clips of him, then you saw him play 9 games in the NHL where -- you're right -- he didn't seem to want to handle the puck. He also looked like he was afraid to make a mistake. 9 games under those circumstances -- is it really fair to make up your mind about the rest of his life?

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

But according to your assessment he should have immediately looked for someone to pass it.

He was in on a breakaway... if there was someone with him I am of the opinion he would have passed it off, yes.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

Also, if he was in the right position, but you said he doesn't go where the puck will be which is kinda/sorta opposite.

Anyhow, let's just stop it, this is getting silly. You were super high on this guy after seeing two YouTube clips of him, then you saw him play 9 games in the NHL where -- you're right -- he didn't seem to want to handle the puck. He also looked like he was afraid to make a mistake. 9 games under those circumstances -- is it really fair to make up your mind about the rest of his life?

If you are in the right position and do what you are supposed to do there is very little risk like on that particular play. I'm talking about a puck battle down low where he might be thinking "if I lose I will have to get back quick, maybe I should bail" vs "I'm going to get this f***** puck".

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
you can't see Noesen whenever you want as they don't broadcast Plymouth home games on Rogers.

I watched him play 20 times I would guess + playoffs until he got hurt. He's good.

Yes he's very good, but don't say that him and Foligno aren't extremely similar at the same age.

I'd say similar, but Noesen evolved into a clutch scorer - including the playoffs this year, while Nick was a year behind IIRC.

What do you mean by a "year behind"?

Foligno had his breakout year in the OHL a year later than Noesen - who had it this year. So developmentally, I'd say Noesen's ahead of the curve. We'll see how this year is, I expect Noesen to kill it.

Both had their best years after being drafted. I don't know what you're referring to.

Noesen (drafted 2011):



Foligno (drafted 2006):

Fair enough, I wasn't counting that half season where they only played Noesen on PK and limited 5 on 5.

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

But according to your assessment he should have immediately looked for someone to pass it.

He was in on a breakaway... if there was someone with him I am of the opinion he would have passed it off, yes.

And you are not considering, even for a few seconds, the possibility that he is adjusting, maturing, improving, and he now finds that he *does* want that puck? I know it was just a rookie camp game and all, but he was the one scoring the winner in OT, just like he did in the gold medal game. He's making a bit of a habit of it.

We'll see soon enough. I fully expect him to be in Bingo to start the year and we'll see after that.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:The thing I hate about Zibanejad's game and the reason I think he won't be a huge offensive threat is because he doesn't want the puck, he wants to get rid of it. Whether that is by passing it off or taking a shot from just inside the blueline, he wants the puck off his stick. That's what ha soured me.

Oh, like that gold-winning goal?

He was in the right position. Created a turn over, put it in the net. Waited for the other team to make a mistake, very much a defensive system.

But according to your assessment he should have immediately looked for someone to pass it.

He was in on a breakaway... if there was someone with him I am of the opinion he would have passed it off, yes.

And you are not considering, even for a few seconds, the possibility that he is adjusting, maturing, improving, and he now finds that he *does* want that puck? I know it was just a rookie camp game and all, but he was the one scoring the winner in OT, just like he did in the gold medal game. He's making a bit of a habit of it.

We'll see soon enough. I fully expect him to be in Bingo to start the year and we'll see after that.

For sure I consider maybe he's just nervous and playing not to make a mistake vs playing to dominate the game, it's a possibility. That said, even at the WJC he didntt like having the puck as much as a natural goal scorer or play maker does although it was better at that level than the NHL level.

Either way, maybe it's a confidence thing but maybe it's not. We'll see, just not my favorite prospect and I think he is very limited in what he will become.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say it again:

I think Murray's believes Noesen's upside is higher (than Foligno's).

I think Murray believes in the Bogeyman, and unicorns.

These statements are useless. The "I think X actually believes Y..." formula is 100% speculation.

I agree with SD when he says Murray thinks Foligno was expendable... not sure if I agree with him when he says Murray thinks this, this, and that though. If a trade goes down I think it will tell you more than you can figure out right now though.

It's my personal belief the Sens are not as high on Zibanejad as they may have been in the past but that's speculation on my part.