POLL: Which Senators prospect are you most excited about?

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

I think a lot of people see his upside that he could very well reach as a Brown/Perry/Oshie type player. That's a top 6 forward but at worst he will be 3rd line guy that's next to impossible to play against. I think he will eventually be a top line forward and he's the best forward prospect in the entire organization.

No he isn't. There are 3 forward prospects ahead of him. People need to stop overrating him. He's gone from being underrated and unknown to being overrated.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

I think a lot of people see his upside that he could very well reach as a Brown/Perry/Oshie type player. That's a top 6 forward but at worst he will be 3rd line guy that's next to impossible to play against. I think he will eventually be a top line forward and he's the best forward prospect in the entire organization.

+1.

And this is the view that I think the Murrays and Dorion hold as well. Not to mention, they're dangling Zibanejad out there for 2 reasons, 1 because he's the most valuable prospect in terms of rankings and 2 because we have Noesen.

Where do people come up with this stuff? It's #1 and because our whole pool is deep.

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

Seriously mind-boggling that you say this yet you say you think Noesen is going to be a top-line player. Zibanejad has a better overall skill package and a lethal shot.

People really need to see these guys play and not go by hearsay and hype.

^^^and all this is coming from a BIG Noesen fan by the way, who's actually seen him play a lot.

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

They've said they see him as a top 6 players, which Foligno never really was, so yes, they see more offensive potential from Noesen.

So it follows that they drafted Foligno with the expectation that he'd be a 3rd liner.

I'm not arguing about who has the higher potential. I'm just saying it's laughable to make claims about how BM felt about prospects when they were drafted. I'm guessing he's pretty excited about every 1st round pick he's ever made, including Foligno and Noesen. Really, really don't think any GM thinks, "Yep, just used my 1st rounder to draft a 3rd/4th line guy, never gonna really produce."

sorry for a 5th post but Mucker drafted Foligno

Big Ev wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

They've said they see him as a top 6 players, which Foligno never really was, so yes, they see more offensive potential from Noesen.

So it follows that they drafted Foligno with the expectation that he'd be a 3rd liner.

I'm not arguing about who has the higher potential. I'm just saying it's laughable to make claims about how BM felt about prospects when they were drafted. I'm guessing he's pretty excited about every 1st round pick he's ever made, including Foligno and Noesen. Really, really don't think any GM thinks, "Yep, just used my 1st rounder to draft a 3rd/4th line guy, never gonna really produce."

sorry for a 5th post but Mucker drafted Foligno

I don't think that matters, at all. The point is, every GM has high hopes for a new draftee, hoping that they will become top 6 material. To say that "BM sees Noesen as being potential top 6 material, but didn't see the same for Foligno" is not only speculation, it's horse Dung.

I just want people to stop passing of their opinions as those of OTT's organization. The truth is, we have very little knowledge of how they feel about their players and very little access to internal information to be able to form accurate knowledge thereof, beyond the carefully scripted and policed things they say about them in public forms.

I get being excited about this or that prospect. What I don't get is how your opinion becomes representative of the organization's, or BM's. At any rate, I think it is all pretty irrelevant -- what matters is what the player becomes, not what anyone thinks he can or might become.

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

They've said they see him as a top 6 players, which Foligno never really was, so yes, they see more offensive potential from Noesen.

I remember reading somewhere that Murray challenged Foligno (maybe in his exit interview at the end of the season) to show them that he belongs in the top six. It would not surprise me if Foligno thought he already was, and maybe that was the beginning of the end for him in Ottawa.

For Murray and the Sens to say that they see Noesen as a top-six forward is nothing to write home about. Remember when Winchester was signed to play on Spezza's wing? I'm pretty sure they were saying the same about Foligno when they drafted him. You don't draft players in the first round and hope they become 3rd/4th liners (even if that is the case most of the time, outside of the top-10).

rooneypoo wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

They've said they see him as a top 6 players, which Foligno never really was, so yes, they see more offensive potential from Noesen.

So it follows that they drafted Foligno with the expectation that he'd be a 3rd liner.

I'm not arguing about who has the higher potential. I'm just saying it's laughable to make claims about how BM felt about prospects when they were drafted. I'm guessing he's pretty excited about every 1st round pick he's ever made, including Foligno and Noesen. Really, really don't think any GM thinks, "Yep, just used my 1st rounder to draft a 3rd/4th line guy, never gonna really produce."

sorry for a 5th post but Mucker drafted Foligno

I don't think that matters, at all. The point is, every GM has high hopes for a new draftee, hoping that they will become top 6 material. To say that "BM sees Noesen as being potential top 6 material, but didn't see the same for Foligno" is not only speculation, it's horse Dung.

I just want people to stop passing of their opinions as those of OTT's organization. The truth is, we have very little knowledge of how they feel about their players and very little access to internal information to be able to form accurate knowledge thereof, beyond the carefully scripted and policed things they say about them in public forms.

I get being excited about this or that prospect. What I don't get is how your opinion becomes representative of the organization's, or BM's. At any rate, I think it is all pretty irrelevant -- what matters is what the player becomes, not what anyone thinks he can or might become.

Yes, it is pretty annoying.

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

You do realize that you were pumping his tires here way before anyone else, and with much more "vigor". I still remember checking highlights on YouTube and being able to find *just one* and wondering what is it that NEELY sees in this kid? Although I have to admit I loved that play where he steals the puck back from the defenseman and scores a goal.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

I think a lot of people see his upside that he could very well reach as a Brown/Perry/Oshie type player. That's a top 6 forward but at worst he will be 3rd line guy that's next to impossible to play against. I think he will eventually be a top line forward and he's the best forward prospect in the entire organization.

No he isn't. There are 3 forward prospects ahead of him. People need to stop overrating him. He's gone from being underrated and unknown to being overrated.

That's my opinion... can't be wrong or right at this point because last time I checked all the guys you have ahead of him have played a combined what? 12, 13 games? I think long term he will be the guy that the Sens will have as their top line winger and the guy who scores that big goal when they need it most.

As for Zibanejad, I don't see a ton of offensive creativity or the upside a lot of people talk about. I like him as a meh 2nd line center, great 3rd line center. Just not a huge fan of guys that go up and down the ice looking just to get a shot on net. That's what I see in his game. Not hating on the kid, just think he's limited in what he can do on the offensive side of things.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

You do realize that you were pumping his tires here way before anyone else, and with much more "vigor". I still remember checking highlights on YouTube and being able to find *just one* and wondering what is it that NEELY sees in this kid? Although I have to admit I loved that play where he steals the puck back from the defenseman and scores a goal.

lol, because we all know YouTube highlights are what really matters when it comes to a prospect and their skill level...

Please don't bring up YouTube again when discussing prospects.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't see the offensive upside of Zibanejad anyways. He isn't my favorite prospect by any means... I don't think he becomes a bust or anything but I think his upside is extremely limited. Just don't see him as a top 6 forward.

You do realize that you were pumping his tires here way before anyone else, and with much more "vigor". I still remember checking highlights on YouTube and being able to find *just one* and wondering what is it that NEELY sees in this kid? Although I have to admit I loved that play where he steals the puck back from the defenseman and scores a goal.

Yah, I think that's the way he will generate most of his scoring chances in the NHL, by being physical... I don't see what a lot of other people say are there though. He hasn't really put up #s anywhere he has been (not the whole story with him) and IMO he doesn't have the hockey sense to really take things to that elite level or even a very good 2nd line level.

I've said it before, he reminds me exactly of Mike Fisher the way he plays, maybe a little like Legwand. Both very good players, both huge when they need to be, but over the long haul he will be very limited in an offensive role.

People can disagree with me, that's fine and time will tell but that's just what I think of him.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think Murray's believes Noesen 's upside is higher.

I believe the Pharoh liked carrots over broccoli.

What you're really telling me is what you believe, and not providing any insight about what BM thinks. It is pointless to say such things, so just don't.

I think a lot of people see his upside that he could very well reach as a Brown/Perry/Oshie type player. That's a top 6 forward but at worst he will be 3rd line guy that's next to impossible to play against. I think he will eventually be a top line forward and he's the best forward prospect in the entire organization.

No he isn't. There are 3 forward prospects ahead of him. People need to stop overrating him. He's gone from being underrated and unknown to being overrated.

That's my opinion... can't be wrong or right at this point because last time I checked all the guys you have ahead of him have played a combined what? 12, 13 games? I think long term he will be the guy that the Sens will have as their top line winger and the guy who scores that big goal when they need it most.

As for Zibanejad, I don't see a ton of offensive creativity or the upside a lot of people talk about. I like him as a meh 2nd line center, great 3rd line center. Just not a huge fan of guys that go up and down the ice looking just to get a shot on net. That's what I see in his game. Not hating on the kid, just think he's limited in what he can do on the offensive side of things.

One of the best players in the world plays this style (Ovechkin). He is not at Ovechkin's level and never will be, but the style of play is fine if you're good at it. But this isn't the only way MZ plays the game. He is also a decent passer. Another thing is he and Noesen play extremely similar styles, so you should also think less of Noesen as well.

The problem with your "opinion" is that it's not based on a whole lot. Like a lot of people out there, you flip flop on these prospects when you really haven't even seen them play a lot. I'm not trying to demean you or anything, it's just that you go from one extreme to the other. Like wprager said, just one year ago your "opinion" was just the opposite. How many times have you seen MZ play? How many times have you seen Stefan Noesen play? To say MZ is limited offensively and Noesen isn't is just odd given their styles. They play the game the same way, the right way.

Big Ev wrote:
Where do people come up with this stuff? It's #1 and because our whole pool is deep.

Because people can put 2 and 2 together?

NEELY wrote:
That's my opinion... can't be wrong or right at this point because last time I checked all the guys you have ahead of him have played a combined what? 12, 13 games? I think long term he will be the guy that the Sens will have as their top line winger and the guy who scores that big goal when they need it most.

As for Zibanejad, I don't see a ton of offensive creativity or the upside a lot of people talk about. I like him as a meh 2nd line center, great 3rd line center. Just not a huge fan of guys that go up and down the ice looking just to get a shot on net. That's what I see in his game. Not hating on the kid, just think he's limited in what he can do on the offensive side of things.

Can't disagree that it's your opinion and it can be neither right nor wrong. After al you *did* preface it by saying "I think ..."

Now, on that bolded part, pretty sure you said that would be Greening yesterday (maybe day before).

I'm gonna go ahead and say it again:

I think Murray's believes Noesen's upside is higher (than Foligno's).

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
Where do people come up with this stuff? It's #1 and because our whole pool is deep.

Because people can put 2 and 2 together?

No, it's called speculating out of one's arse.

I think Noesen will get in front of the net a little more, closer in because of the little edge he has. IMO that's what seperates the two. One is born and bread in NA and the other plays a very NA type game but hasn't developed the attitude or mind set to play in NA and be successful.

I put a lot of stock into the attitude of a player and their mind set. A guy that will bang goals in at the side of the net who can actually do the job is a lot harder to find that will go around and bang bodies but doesn't really have that edge to make him successful.

My opinion switches because I've watched both guys play a little more, 2 years ago I may have read some little clips about Noesen but I never paid attention. OHL package I get to watch him play whenever I want now.

So yah, like I said, the edge that Noesen has will seperate the two. I like a guy who will punch a guy in the face just because he wants to and laugh about vs a guy who won't really do anything until he's hit himself. Maybe that changes with Zibanejad over the next little while but as of right now, I like Noesen better and I think he will be a better goal scorer at the NHL level.

EDIT: And opinions change, if they didn't you end up like Columbus. You take things as they come, it's not flip flopping, it's being open minded. I see something I like, it's a positive and I state as much, if I see something I don't, same deal. Simple as that. Over the last year I have seen a lot I like about Noesen and Zibanejad has been very "meh" for me, not good, not bad, just yah, he'll be a good player.