So lets say Volchie doesn't sign.... then what?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Also, a UFA defensive D-man will get you a 4th round pick at best.

Sure. Or a UFA from the other team. It's not cut and dried.

If Washington has a poor playoff run due to lack of D, they will pay a premium, specially if there are other suitors. Would they take Volchenkov and Foligno for Fleishmann +, for example? Who knows?

I wouldn't do that personally. I would trade Volchenkov's rights for Michalek's rights though. Or Gonchar's.

MFPII brings up Detroit, Phoenix and Washington. I gave you my take on Washington and you basically said what I was thinking on Phoenix. The only fit I can see from Detroit would be Holmstrom and possibly a 3rd or 4th coming our way because of his age.

Dealing JBo's rights earned FLA a massive 3rd pick + the rights to Jordan Leopold -- which is pretty awful. That's about the high end in terms of what you can expect in exchange for a team trading for the right to negotiate with Volchenkov in June.

You're not getting anything worth talking about if you deal Volchenkov's rights.

Having $15 million in cap space is pointless if you cannot attract premium free agents with it. Ottawa has never been able to do that.

I'd rather a sign and trade ,similar to what Muckler did with Hossa, for Volchenkov. Sign him to say a 4 year deal between 14 and 16 million and ship him off to a team that needs such a player.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
MFPII brings up Detroit, Phoenix and Washington. I gave you my take on Washington and you basically said what I was thinking on Phoenix. The only fit I can see from Detroit would be Holmstrom and possibly a 3rd or 4th coming our way because of his age.

Holmstrom? Okay, I'll do it.

What about a sign and trade for Frolov?

hemlock wrote:Having $15 million in cap space is pointless if you cannot attract premium free agents with it. Ottawa has never been able to do that.

I'd rather a sign and trade ,similar to what Muckler did with Hossa, for Volchenkov. Sign him to say a 4 year deal between 14 and 16 million and ship him off to a team that needs such a player.

I'm not sure about that personally. I know what you mean, I really do, but it was Murray's decision to back off on a couple of these guys (J-Bo and Cammelleri come to mind). I think any team can attract talent, even Montreal and Toronto were able to do it last summer, we've always been in a position where we didn't have a whole lot to spend (Heatley and other issues). I think if we had dumped Heatley earlier, we MAY have given Cammelleri the term he wanted and lured him here, but then, would that have been a good move?

Signing and trading makes your franchise look Mickey Mouse IMO. I wouldn't do that often (if at all).

DirtyDave wrote:What about a sign and trade for Frolov?

Just swap their rights. I really wonder about Frolov though, he was in Murray's brother's doghouse a lot of the year for not competing hard enough. Pass I think.

Michael Fisher Portnoy II wrote:Alright… you may not want to read this, but hear me out here. Lets say B-Murr decide to cut bait with a handful of guys, either via trade, or burying them in the minors (like Cheech). How about this? Volchie will get a HUGE offer on the UFA market and Ottawa will not be able to sign him, and Murray deals his rights at the draft. Where does he go? Who needs him? Talk is Washington, Detroit, and maybe Phoenix. So who comes back? Will it just be a pick, or will the Bryan go after players? Let’s assume it’s a high pick, hell, maybe even a first…. Then, maybe he pulls off another shocker and deals Kovy back to Montreal or wherever. That’s now 7.5M in cap space open. Keep Cheech in the minors? 10.5M. Off load Kelly? 13M. Snoopy? 16.5M. If he doesn’t resign Sutton and Cullen 21.5M. GONE!

All of a sudden, you’ve dumped a bunch of dead weight (except Kelly) and you have a Dung of cap to work with. Now, are you willing to let the young guys take a shot? Let’s say you can get Cullen and Sutton to come back for 2.5 each over two years (reasonable at their age). Foligno and Regin resign for 1.5 each over two years….Your team now looks like this…. At 43M. 13M in cap space would be kind of nice with this team still intact like this. This also assume none of our prospects pull a Carks and force us to keep them (although that wouldn’t be half bad)

Regin – Spezza – Michalak
Fisher – Cullen – Alfie
Ruutu – Foligno – Neil
Winch – O’Brien – Z.Smith

Kuba – Phillips
Sutton – Karlsson
Blee – Carks

Elliott
Brodeur

Discuss amongst yourselves….

I don't know where to begin with this.

Is it possible we lose Volchenkov? Absolutely. Given that we didn't feel we had to move him before Mar. 3rd, I have to think, however, that BM thought he had a better than 50% chance of re-signing Volchenkov at a price he finds acceptable.

Anyway, of your list of "dead weight" guys, only Cheechoo and maybe Leclaire (even here, we can wait) really fit the bill. Kelly has been great this year. Kovalev, well, everyone seems to have forgotten really quickly but I'll remind you -- he was *fantastic* for us for pretty much the whole season, from mid-November until the end of February -- and we still haven't seen what he can do for us in the playoffs. Sutton is a must re-sign, if we can get him at the right rate/term. Cullen has been arguably one of our best players, night in and night out, since shortly after he got here. If the rate/term is right, I'd like to see him re-signed, too. I don't know if our cap situation will allow for it, tho', unless we move a guy like Fisher.

Anyway, this is our situation: for next year, we have $48 mil locked up in 10 forwards (including Z. Smith, and with Cheechoo still in the minors), 5 D (including Lee), and 2 goalies (including all buyouts, too). This from CapGeek. Assuming the cap remains about the same (people are now speculating that it will be a $1 mil drop or raise -- something like that), that leaves us with about $7-8 mil (saving room for injuries, etc.) to deal with the following UFAs and RFAs:

UFAs
Volchenkov
Sutton
Cullen
Donovan

RFAs
Foligno
Regin
Winchester
Campoli

Out of that list, you need 2 D and 3 forwards for about $7-8 mil, max. Donovan is done for sure. Winchester may well be on the bubble. That's not a lot of wiggle room after that. Something's going to have to give. Moving someone like Fisher, Kuba, or Leclaire might become a necessity -- or not re-signing Volchenkov. If you can get Cullen and Sutton for close to what Volchenkov wants, for instance -- let's say he wants $4.5 mil, but you can get Cullen and Sutton for $5 mil or so combined -- you probably have to do it.

The really interesting cases to follow this summer will be Regin, Foligno, and Campoli. The latter two in particular, as they have arbitration rights. It's pretty imperative that we get these guys on the cheap -- say, under $1 mil for Regin, $1-1.5 for Foligno, and $1-1.5 for Campoli.

Yeah exactly, then the year when Kovalev and Leclaire come off the books, you have a little more wiggle room.

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah exactly, then the year when Kovalev and Leclaire come off the books, you have a little more wiggle room.

The more I look at it, the tighter spot I think we're in for next year. Even if you can get Regin, Foligno, and Campoli for something like $3.5 mil combined, you've only got about $4 mil + change or so to sign another D and another forward. You *might* get Volchenkov + Winchester for that price -- but you're not getting Sutton + Cullen.

OTT will have some wheeling and dealing to do this summer for sure, I think. Too many bodies, some pretty specific team needs, and not enough space or money to go around.

rooneypoo wrote:
Kelly has been great this year. Kovalev, well, everyone seems to have forgotten really quickly but I'll remind you -- he was *fantastic* for us for pretty much the whole season, from mid-November until the end of February -- and we still haven't seen what he can do for us in the playoffs.

If you can get Cullen and Sutton for close to what Volchenkov wants, for instance -- -- you probably have to do it.

The really interesting cases to follow this summer will be Regin, Foligno, and Campoli. The latter two in particular, as they have arbitration rights. It's pretty imperative that we get these guys on the cheap -- say, under $1 mil for Regin, $1-1.5 for Foligno, and $1-1.5 for Campoli.

I agree with most of what you said. The problem with Kelly is he's been "great" this year. Great is a bit of an overstatement in my books, and he's been good, great would be 20 goals+30 assists, which Kelly seems to show glimmers of, but has never hit.

There is no reason we shouldn't get Regin for $1m and Foligno for $1.25 given what they've (not) produced over the past season plus.

What I don't agree with is Kovalev being *fantastic* from mid-November to the end of February... what I remember is Kovalev blowing his load in one game and disappearing for the next three or four (especially on the road)... or his 16 game goalless streak, followed by a hat trick, and then another twelve game goalless streak. That's the Kovy I remember. For $5m? No thanks. If there's a taker at the draft, he's gotta go.

Michael Fisher Portnoy II wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Kelly has been great this year. Kovalev, well, everyone seems to have forgotten really quickly but I'll remind you -- he was *fantastic* for us for pretty much the whole season, from mid-November until the end of February -- and we still haven't seen what he can do for us in the playoffs.

If you can get Cullen and Sutton for close to what Volchenkov wants, for instance -- -- you probably have to do it.

The really interesting cases to follow this summer will be Regin, Foligno, and Campoli. The latter two in particular, as they have arbitration rights. It's pretty imperative that we get these guys on the cheap -- say, under $1 mil for Regin, $1-1.5 for Foligno, and $1-1.5 for Campoli.

I agree with most of what you said. The problem with Kelly is he's been "great" this year. Great is a bit of an overstatement in my books, and he's been good, great would be 20 goals+30 assists, which Kelly seems to show glimmers of, but has never hit.

There is no reason we shouldn't get Regin for $1m and Foligno for $1.25 given what they've (not) produced over the past season plus.

What I don't agree with is Kovalev being *fantastic* from mid-November to the end of February... what I remember is Kovalev blowing his load in one game and disappearing for the next three or four (especially on the road)... or his 16 game goalless streak, followed by a hat trick, and then another twelve game goalless streak. That's the Kovy I remember. For $5m? No thanks. If there's a taker at the draft, he's gotta go.

Kelly has been great. He's been consistent. He isn't being paid to just score although 14 goals isn't horrible either. He plays a role and he does it very well.. same goes for Neil and Ruutu.

I think Kelly has been great too, doesnt matter what type of game the team's in, he's front and center, hell, Ruutu had a career year playing along side him. I would move Fisher before I would move Kelly. He has really shown his worth this year and he does hae a tendancy to score some big goals.

I think perhaps the biggest bargining chip is Foligno going forward. We'll see how his playoffs are.

what about Foligno, Fisher and Vochenkov

for

Mike Richards

DirtyDave wrote:what about Foligno, Fisher and Vochenkov

for

Mike Richards

The Flyers would never trade Mike Richards IMO.

what about Foligno, Fisher, Leclaire, Vochenkov and 2nd?

for

Mike Richards

this is starting to look like my SIM trades

No way Fish waives his NTC to go anywhere other than Nashville, Dallas, or Phoenix. Unless Carrie wants to live in New York.

DirtyDave wrote:what about Foligno, Fisher, Leclaire, Vochenkov and 2nd?

for

Mike Richards

this is starting to look like my SIM trades

Goodness gracious no. That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much to give up.

SensGirl11 wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:what about Foligno, Fisher, Leclaire, Vochenkov and 2nd?

for

Mike Richards

this is starting to look like my SIM trades

Goodness gracious no. That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much to give up.

Agreed. Besides, they won't want Fish anyways. If they ship out anyone, it's Carter anyhow.