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Clouston to get contract offer today?

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LeCaptain
PTFlea
LethalLehner
wprager
Urkie
top shelf15
Cronie
SensGirl11
davetherave
shabbs
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91Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:53 pm

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504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:McAmmond sucks, he is basically done in the NHL. Ever since he got hit by Pronger and Downie, he has been on the decline and fast.

McAmmond cant do the job Kelly does, and its pretty ignorant to think he can, as well as Winchester stepping in right now and doing the job Kelly has been doing for 4 years, and doing well.

Winchester may one day be able to be that guy, right now he cant.

Bottom line right now: it doesn't matter. The people who don't care for Kelly will have to learn to love him - the people who love him are happy. There is no GM in the NHL that would take Kelly for 3 more years at a 2.1 million cap hit.

So, there's little to no use even bothering debating this.

I would beg to differ with that point. There are def some teams who could use a Kelly. 3 years at 2.1 is not a bad deal, especially with no NTC. Kelly is a good guy to have on the 3rd line and he will prob be moved to the wing if Regin makes the team next year.

92Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:55 pm

PTFlea


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Urkie wrote:
Probably not but you never know with Sundin going out the door and the Sedin's asking for 15 million.

I change my tune on the Sedins. They're diddling amazing - and they have grit. I saw one of those sisters get her teeth knocked out, go to the bench, come back on and score. Crazy.

I take back everything I said, they've evolved.

But yes, you make the good point. If they feel they'll lose the sisters to Burke, they might make that deal for Spezza. Smile

93Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:56 pm

PTFlea


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Neely4Life wrote:
I would beg to differ with that point. There are def some teams who could use a Kelly. 3 years at 2.1 is not a bad deal, especially with no NTC. Kelly is a good guy to have on the 3rd line and he will prob be moved to the wing if Regin makes the team next year.

I think Regin has a chance to make a real impact. If Kelly can play on his wing, he might be useful yet. He can teach Regin and Winchester the ropes defensively - and hey...maybe they become a unit going forward. FingersCrossed

94Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:57 pm

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504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
I would beg to differ with that point. There are def some teams who could use a Kelly. 3 years at 2.1 is not a bad deal, especially with no NTC. Kelly is a good guy to have on the 3rd line and he will prob be moved to the wing if Regin makes the team next year.

I think Regin has a chance to make a real impact. If Kelly can play on his wing, he might be useful yet. He can teach Regin and Winchester the ropes defensively - and hey...maybe they become a unit going forward. FingersCrossed

Thats where Kelly played the entire time Regin was here, so he def can and def will.

95Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
I would beg to differ with that point. There are def some teams who could use a Kelly. 3 years at 2.1 is not a bad deal, especially with no NTC. Kelly is a good guy to have on the 3rd line and he will prob be moved to the wing if Regin makes the team next year.

I think Regin has a chance to make a real impact. If Kelly can play on his wing, he might be useful yet. He can teach Regin and Winchester the ropes defensively - and hey...maybe they become a unit going forward. FingersCrossed

Thats where Kelly played the entire time Regin was here, so he def can and def will.

With who on the other wing?

96Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
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Oh, never mind, it must have been Vermette.

97Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm

Guest


Guest

504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
I would beg to differ with that point. There are def some teams who could use a Kelly. 3 years at 2.1 is not a bad deal, especially with no NTC. Kelly is a good guy to have on the 3rd line and he will prob be moved to the wing if Regin makes the team next year.

I think Regin has a chance to make a real impact. If Kelly can play on his wing, he might be useful yet. He can teach Regin and Winchester the ropes defensively - and hey...maybe they become a unit going forward. FingersCrossed

Thats where Kelly played the entire time Regin was here, so he def can and def will.

With who on the other wing?

Winchester for a bit, Ruutu as well.

98Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:00 pm

wprager

wprager
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Neely4Life wrote:
wprager wrote:
Kelly can already be replaced by Winch. He was killing penalties pretty darn well last night, and he's 54% on faceoffs, not 25%. Deano could have been or third line centre for far less than $2.2M.

No he cant! WInchester is still a rookie looking to find his way in the NHL. He has found a nice role in Ottawa now but he isnt close to getting the responsibility Kelly has and he will never be as smart as Kelly is.

Again, this all goes back to how unappriciated Kelly is. He is the PERFECT 3rd line center, you wont find a better one for 2.2 mil.

Well there you go with your absolutes again. No he isn't, and no he will never be, and I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la".

Can you ever have a discussion where you actually read and try to take in what the other person is saying? You don't have to agree, but surely you can come up with something more substantial than "he will never be as smart as Kelly is"?

99Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:03 pm

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wprager wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
wprager wrote:
Kelly can already be replaced by Winch. He was killing penalties pretty darn well last night, and he's 54% on faceoffs, not 25%. Deano could have been or third line centre for far less than $2.2M.

No he cant! WInchester is still a rookie looking to find his way in the NHL. He has found a nice role in Ottawa now but he isnt close to getting the responsibility Kelly has and he will never be as smart as Kelly is.

Again, this all goes back to how unappriciated Kelly is. He is the PERFECT 3rd line center, you wont find a better one for 2.2 mil.

Well there you go with your absolutes again. No he isn't, and no he will never be, and I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la".

Can you ever have a discussion where you actually read and try to take in what the other person is saying? You don't have to agree, but surely you can come up with something more substantial than "he will never be as smart as Kelly is"?

Because he wont be as smart as Kelly, that is Kelly's who MO. Kelly is on another level from most players in the league. Winchester depends on his size, skating, and physicallity for sucess. Its not about absolute, its abotu recongnizing exactly what a players assets are what they bring to the table. They are two different players who play, at this point, different roles.

If you think im dealing with absolutes Im not, maybe you shoudl educate yourself a little more with their players and the game before you make a comment like that.

100Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:04 pm

wprager

wprager
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Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
wprager wrote:Kelly can already be replaced by Winch. He was killing penalties pretty darn well last night, and he's 54% on faceoffs, not 25%. Deano could have been or third line centre for far less than $2.2M.

I would have to agree. A guy like Deano is meant to be a 3rd line player/PKer - and he'd be lucky to make 900K next year.

McAmmond sucks, he is basically done in the NHL. Ever since he got hit by Pronger and Downie, he has been on the decline and fast.

McAmmond cant do the job Kelly does, and its pretty ignorant to think he can, as well as Winchester stepping in right now and doing the job Kelly has been doing for 4 years, and doing well.

Winchester may one day be able to be that guy, right now he cant.

Based on the last few games, I'd say Kelly can't do the job that Kelly does, or used to do. Lift up the blinders, man, Kelly has devolved this season. And it's not since Vermette left, although it's gotten worse since then.

There are many ways to be a "smart" player. If you win a face off you generally keep the other team away from the puck for a hilw, possibly even longer than you would had you blocked a pass and shot the puck down the ice. Winning a face off on the PK is one of the most important things, and Kelly has been llosing 3/4 of his draws lately. He was never great at it, but he's gotten seriously worse lately.

Could he be nursing an injury?

101Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:09 pm

wprager

wprager
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You want to talk about MO, *your* MO is to state things very categorically, with no room for grey areas anywhere. Truth is, you don't know what wil happen next year, let alone next five. Kelly being the smartest playerin the league is certainly not something that can be proven by anyone, yet you stand on your soap box and proclaim that Winchester will never be as smart.

Says who???! Oh, yeah, says you. It *must be* right, then.

Out.

102Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:10 pm

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Guest

wprager wrote:You want to talk about MO, *your* MO is to state things very categorically, with no room for grey areas anywhere. Truth is, you don't know what wil happen next year, let alone next five. Kelly being the smartest playerin the league is certainly not something that can be proven by anyone, yet you stand on your soap box and proclaim that Winchester will never be as smart.

Says who???! Oh, yeah, says you. It *must be* right, then.

Out.

Haha, ok buddy. Again, you show a total lack of knowledge for the game in a large way, always have, and always will. You dont get it, thats fine, just dont pretend you do.

EDIT: This isnt the Jim Rome show either. Saying "out" is pretty lame unless you are a fat chick that works at the DMV.



Last edited by Neely4Life on Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

103Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:11 pm

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
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Neely4Life wrote:Take a guy like Fisher who has seemed to start to develope some chemistry with Heatley. They dont look bad out there together and Heatley has looked a lot better with him than he has all year with Spezza.

Also, a guy I would love to go after up front this off season is Chris Higgins. He is begging for a fresh start and can play in every situation. Look no further than Ryder for a good example of someone who needed to get out of MTL. I think Higgins would fit in nicely in Ottawa.

co signed, i love that guy.

104Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:30 pm

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
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All-Star

[quote="Neely4Life"]
504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
I said he is 100% worth that kind of cash. But Kelly plays the same role, just as well, for less.

Who are we talking about? Kesler or Pahlsson?

Oh... ok, got ya. Kesler is not worth more than 4 mil a year at this point in his career. There are 7 other guys on that Boston team that can score, Kesler is a product of that system along with others. Its a perfect mix up front for Kesler right now and any team that gives him anything more than maybe 3.5, 4 mil is in a lot of trouble.

Kesler is nothing special, he is a good 2nd line winger.

We have our signals crossed.

This is the guy I want to trade Spezza for:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=3513[/quote]

Ohhhh, KESLER. I thought you ment Kessel, haha. Thats my bad.

Uhhh, I dunno, maybe? I think there are some better deals out there for Spezza. If he goes to Vancouver I would be asking for Hodgson back, not Kesler.

i was lmao. First you guys confuse Pahlsson and Kesler, then it's Kesler and Kessel Laughing3

105Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:30 pm

Phoenix30

Phoenix30
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504Heater wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
Pahlsson will be making more than Kelly when the year is up, Axlesson was signed to a great contract, and Yelle's best year are way behind him. If you could replace Kelly with Pahlsson at a cheaper price, than 100% you do it, but he wont be making less than Kelly as a UFA, NO SHOT.

Meh, that's debatable. He's a total checker, never gonna notch points. In this cap era that's starting to look like it might lower a lot, you just can't afford to spend 2+ million on a 3rd liner.

Along with the 2m its also the length of the contract that can hurt you. He is by and far probably the easiest piece to move once UFA season has passed

106Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:03 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Neely4Life wrote:
wprager wrote:You want to talk about MO, *your* MO is to state things very categorically, with no room for grey areas anywhere. Truth is, you don't know what wil happen next year, let alone next five. Kelly being the smartest playerin the league is certainly not something that can be proven by anyone, yet you stand on your soap box and proclaim that Winchester will never be as smart.

Says who???! Oh, yeah, says you. It *must be* right, then.

Out.

Haha, ok buddy. Again, you show a total lack of knowledge for the game in a large way, always have, and always will. You dont get it, thats fine, just dont pretend you do.

EDIT: This isnt the Jim Rome show either. Saying "out" is pretty lame unless you are a fat chick that works at the DMV.

Listen, Nelly. I stopped commenting on you typing "n e way" and "w e" and so on, so don't you go after me for using a proper 3-letter word when trying to express "I've got to go, so I'm done now". The Tamils were at it again to day and I had to go home early or face getting home late again like last night.

As for my knowledge of hockey it's quite simple -- I know as much as the next guy. You can keep defending Kelly as the Einstein of Hockey, but I'm just looking at what he brings. He's not big, he's not particularly fast, he's got hands of stone, he can't win a face off. So, yeah, he'd better have the hockey equivalent of a 282 IQ because he's not going to stop the other team by brute force, blazing speed, by scoring more goals than mistakes leading to goals against, or by contributing to the team;s time of possession stats by winning faceoffs. Just like the discussion about Kuba versus Volchenkov, there are many ways to contribute to the team;s success. The goal is to score more than the other guys, whether that's a 1-0 or 7-5. The only time it makes a difference is during a playoff series where you're playing the same team as many as seven games -- in those situations I'd take A-Train versus Kuba because his punishing hits will have a cumulative effect on the other team's ability to play, where's Kuba will simply prevent them from scoring in *this* game.

Anyhow, back to Kelly. He's a smart player, a great defensive player, and quite unfortunate on the offensive side. But at $2.1M what he brings (the net total) is not enough compared to other players.

I'm sorry that you can't see it. You've got blind spots like everyone else. I actually listen to your arguments -- sometimes they are a little hard to see because of all the "absolutes", but I at least try -- and sometimes I disagree. Sometimes I lose patience when you repeatedly try to simply shout the other person (me or anyone else) without actually trying to hold a debate. But I never accuse anyone here of knowing less than me or, god forbid, of knowing nothing.

I guess when you accused the guy who actually played for the Red Wings and Rangers of knowing nothing about hockey you did not learn a lesson in humilty. That's too bad for you, I guess.

Please understand that:
1. You don't know everything
2. You have even less insights into what other people know.
3. Everyone here knows something.

And sometimes, even if someone knows less than you, the other person might have a different opinion which just happens to be more correct. Knowing more doesn't entitle anyone to better understanding. It can certainly help, but just like talent in hockey doesn't entitle you to a career in the NHL, it's not the only thing that matters.

Am I beginning to make sense?

107Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Phoenix30

Phoenix30
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Personally I think Kelly is a viable option to move for several reasons.

1. it opens a spot on the 3rd line for a rookie.
2. Gains an asset for the team.
3. 3 more years at 2.1 million - there is certainly teams willing to take on his salary in order to improve their PK.....like hmmmm edmonton which would free up some cash for us.
4. Can put Spezza, Alfie, Fisher, Donovan among others on PK.

I'd neither here or there for Kelly but moving his money for a cheaper option to improve elsewhere is what makes me think he needs to go.

108Clouston to get contract offer today? - Page 7 Empty Re: Clouston to get contract offer today? Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Phoenix30

Phoenix30
Veteran
Veteran

Personally I think Kelly is a viable option to move for several reasons.

1. it opens a spot on the 3rd line for a rookie.
2. Gains an asset for the team.
3. 3 more years at 2.1 million - there is certainly teams willing to take on his salary in order to improve their PK.....like hmmmm edmonton which would free up some cash for us.
4. Can put Spezza, Alfie, Fisher, Donovan among others on PK.

I'd neither here or there for Kelly but moving his money for a cheaper option to improve elsewhere is what makes me think he needs to go.

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