GAME DAY: New York Rangers @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm Jan. 10th, 2009

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

I am not sure that I agree. I think our depth was worse I mean entire organization under Muckler. Our top prospects included Kaigorodov, Hennesey, etc...

Now we have M Karlsson, E Karlsson, Lee on 'd' who are all legitimate.

Elliot who is legit.

Regin, O'Brien, Zubov, Smith, Bass etc on forward.

I like all these guys and I couldn't name that many in the past few years that I remember much less were looking forward to.

Also, on another topic, I was wrong about Marshal Johnson (sp?), looking back he was pribably the best GM we ever had. He was very unsexy, (male Rosie O'Donnel in a$$less chaps would be sexier) but the dude knew hockey. I do however think that Murray has been decent on the trade front always coming out on top. But he had real problems giving our mid level players a lot of money and he has not addressed the glaring need for a stud defenceman or true #1 goalie which have been glaring needs. I personally would have done it at all costs. Personally if I was GM (sorrry I know there was another thread) J Bo would be in our lineup and locked up longterm by the end of the week. I would make Martin an offer he couldn't refuse. If I failed there I would be pushing Toronto hard for Kaberle and Toskala. Their value is as low as it has ever been (although they still have value). I think we could get them to take Gerber as they are unconcerned about cap space, add Lee, SJs first and Zubov, maybe that is enough. If not add a second? maybe?

Well after tonight's star peformance, we are officially in second last place in the league. Keep those losses coming.

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

That right there is the reason you blow it up. Muckler traded away everything, and drafted Russians, and now its killing us!

Want to see something scary. The following shows why our organizational depth is so bad. It shows all the players we drafted in the last 10 years that made the NHL whether us or another team.

Pre Muckler

1999	2000
Havlat - gone	Volchenkov
Kelly	Vermette
Prusek - gone	Zanon - gone

Decent Drafting, 5 players played for us and while 2 moved on we still got some good players from these drafts feeding into our team.

2001

Spezza

Gleason - gone

Emery - gone

Schubert

Laich - gone

Bochenski - gone

This was by far our best draft. Most people I've talked to state that Muckler had little to do with this draft. This was mostly Johnson like 1999 and 2000. His scouts, and his staff doing the drafting as Muckler joined immediately prior to this draft. Still good draft. I believe they all played for us (maybe not Laich) but at one point or another they all fed into our team.

2002	2003	2004	2005
Kaigorodov - gone	Eaves - gone	Meszaros - gone	Lee
	Elliott	Glass ??	Bass
		Nikulin - gone	Zubov

2006

Foligno

That's depressing. Muckler set this team back 5 years with that drafting. It's a miracle we have managed to stay competitive give this. It's really about time we started to suck as we haven't had any players drafted to help our team.

ElliottRules wrote:Well after tonight's star peformance, we are officially in second last place in the league. Keep those loses coming.

We need a way to make NYI better.

Actually, I'm very happy letting NYI take JT and have us take Hedman.

The pipe dream is to find a way to get a guy like MSP, Schroeder or Schenn on top of that.

Dawg's Wife wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

That right there is the reason you blow it up. Muckler traded away everything, and drafted Russians, and now its killing us!

Want to see something scary. The following shows why our organizational depth is so bad. It shows all the players we drafted in the last 10 years that made the NHL whether us or another team.

Pre Muckler

1999	2000
Havlat - gone	Volchenkov
Kelly	Vermette
Prusek - gone	Zanon - gone

Decent Drafting, 5 players played for us and while 2 moved on we still got some good players from these drafts feeding into our team.

2001

Spezza

Gleason - gone

Emery - gone

Schubert

Laich - gone

Bochenski - gone

This was by far our best draft. Most people I've talked to state that Muckler had little to do with this draft. This was mostly Johnson like 1999 and 2000. His scouts, and his staff doing the drafting as Muckler joined immediately prior to this draft. Still good draft. I believe they all played for us (maybe not Laich) but at one point or another they all fed into our team.

2002	2003	2004	2005
Kaigorodov - gone	Eaves - gone	Meszaros - gone	Lee
	Elliott	Glass ??	Bass
		Nikulin - gone	Zubov

2006

Foligno

That's depressing. Muckler set this team back 5 years with that drafting. It's a miracle we have managed to stay competitive give this. It's really about time we started to suck as we haven't had any players drafted to help our team.

Meszaros and Elliott were good picks, Zubov might be as well. And Eaves was a 20 goal-scorer for us. Still, I see your point.

The two things Murray has done that I'm thankful for are
A) drafting well, and
B) not harnassing this team to another huge contract like Boyle's or Campbell's, even though the onus was there.

MurderOnIce wrote:

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

I am not sure that I agree. I think our depth was worse I mean entire organization under Muckler. Our top prospects included Kaigorodov, Hennesey, etc...

Now we have M Karlsson, E Karlsson, Lee on 'd' who are all legitimate.

Elliot who is legit.

Regin, O'Brien, Zubov, Smith, Bass etc on forward.

I like all these guys and I couldn't name that many in the past few years that I remember much less were looking forward to.

Also, on another topic, I was wrong about Marshal Johnson (sp?), looking back he was pribably the best GM we ever had. He was very unsexy, (male Rosie O'Donnel in a$$less chaps would be sexier) but the dude knew hockey. I do however think that Murray has been decent on the trade front always coming out on top. But he had real problems giving our mid level players a lot of money and he has not addressed the glaring need for a stud defenceman or true #1 goalie which have been glaring needs. I personally would have done it at all costs. Personally if I was GM (sorrry I know there was another thread) J Bo would be in our lineup and locked up longterm by the end of the week. I would make Martin an offer he couldn't refuse. If I failed there I would be pushing Toronto hard for Kaberle and Toskala. Their value is as low as it has ever been (although they still have value). I think we could get them to take Gerber as they are unconcerned about cap space, add Lee, SJs first and Zubov, maybe that is enough. If not add a second? maybe?

I think Murray tries too hard to fleece someone every time out. Sometimes, you have to overpay to get what you need/want. Toskala's value has certainly plumetted, but I think we'd still have to pay too much. He hasn't been great this year.

asq2 wrote:
Meszaros and Elliott were good picks, Zubov might be as well. And Eaves was a 20 goal-scorer for us. Still, I see your point.

The two things Murray has done that I'm thankful for are
A) drafting well, and
B) not harnassing this team to another huge contract like Boyle's or Campbell's, even though the onus was there.

Agreed...some good picks. The problem is the only thing you have to show for 5 years of drafting is

Elliott, Lee, Bass, Zubov and Foligno.

2 or 3 of those picks are at best depth players. Zubov, Lee and Foligno. I'll hold the jury out on Elliott. What you need to look at is the number of Russian and European players he drafted that never even played in the AHL.

To get the non-UFA Kaberle from Burke as a team within the division, he would ask for Erik Karlsson and our first this year.

No thank you.

Also, Kabs has a NTC. Why the **** would he waive it to go to the second-worst team in the league?

asq2 wrote:

Dawg's Wife wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

That right there is the reason you blow it up. Muckler traded away everything, and drafted Russians, and now its killing us!

Want to see something scary. The following shows why our organizational depth is so bad. It shows all the players we drafted in the last 10 years that made the NHL whether us or another team.

Pre Muckler

1999	2000
Havlat - gone	Volchenkov
Kelly	Vermette
Prusek - gone	Zanon - gone

Decent Drafting, 5 players played for us and while 2 moved on we still got some good players from these drafts feeding into our team.

2001

Spezza

Gleason - gone

Emery - gone

Schubert

Laich - gone

Bochenski - gone

This was by far our best draft. Most people I've talked to state that Muckler had little to do with this draft. This was mostly Johnson like 1999 and 2000. His scouts, and his staff doing the drafting as Muckler joined immediately prior to this draft. Still good draft. I believe they all played for us (maybe not Laich) but at one point or another they all fed into our team.

2002	2003	2004	2005
Kaigorodov - gone	Eaves - gone	Meszaros - gone	Lee
	Elliott	Glass ??	Bass
		Nikulin - gone	Zubov

2006

Foligno

That's depressing. Muckler set this team back 5 years with that drafting. It's a miracle we have managed to stay competitive give this. It's really about time we started to suck as we haven't had any players drafted to help our team.

Meszaros and Elliott were good picks, Zubov might be as well. And Eaves was a 20 goal-scorer for us. Still, I see your point.

The two things Murray has done that I'm thankful for are
A) drafting well, and
B) not harnassing this team to another huge contract like Boyle's or Campbell's, even though the onus was there.

He also hasn't mortgaged our future like Muckler did. I still can't believe we traded a guy who has become a 20 goal player AND a 2nd for Peter friggin' Bondra.

I liked the Bondra deal at the time. It didn't work out, but I can handle that.

Muckler was an overrated GM at the best of times. Finding 11.1 million for Gerber while not keeping Chara is unforgivable.

dennycrane wrote:I liked the Bondra deal at the time. It didn't work out, but I can handle that.

Muckler was an overrated GM at the best of times. Finding 11.1 million for Gerber while not keeping Chara is unforgivable.

I suppose yeah. Please don't bring up Chara. I'm at work, and it's pretty unprofessional to be at work.

Its not even enjoyable being at the games anymore, which is pretty upsetting. Tonight I had some interest just for the simple fact I finally got to see Elliott play in Ottawa, and he did well.

In all seriousness, I have no clue where this team is headed, and if I had to guess the axe is gonna fall right on Hartsberg.

This team is Heded toward Hedman.

I don't think we'll catch the Isles in terms of incompetency, but that may not be such a bad thing because despite a worse showing at the WJHC Hedman may end up being the far better player and a generational defenceman.

The concern now becomes any attempt to improve the team.

asq2 wrote:This team is Heded toward Hedman.

I don't think we'll catch the Isles in terms of incompetency, but that may not be such a bad thing because despite a worse showing at the WJHC Hedman may end up being the far better player and a generational defenceman.

The concern now becomes any attempt to improve the team.

Well they should defently be looking towards the future and trying to use some of their assests to obtain something that will be useful for a few years after this one.

Fisher and Heatley having those NTC's are just killer.I dont blame Murray because thats the way things had to be, but its just a crappy situation.

Hedman and Karlsson as a 1-2 punch will be good for 10, 15 years though. May not have to draft another D man for a long, long time, at least in the 1st round.

Hopefully we have a shot at Taylor Hall the year after this, and then you can really move forward.

^Dream:
Trade Heatley and Kuba for Filatov and either Brassard or Voracek.

Trade Fisher to Nashville with a 2nd or SJs 1st for a 3rd or 4th and say a non-Pickard goaltending prospect.

Trade Vermette for a 2nd.

Suck, draft Hedman. Suck the next season, and if you've grabbed Voracek then draft Hall, and if you've grabbed Brassard then instead draft Kabanov.

Future:
Filatov - Spezza - Zubov
Regin - Brassard/Hall - Voracek/Kabanov
Smith - O'Brien - Foligno
Some fourth line

Hedman - Volchenkov
Lee - Karlsson
Picard - Wiercioch

Elliott
goaltending prospect

Won't happen. But having Hedman and Karlsson is a realistic possibility and certainly something I'm excited about.

asq2 wrote:^Dream:
Trade Heatley and Kuba for Filatov and either Brassard or Voracek.

Trade Fisher to Nashville with a 2nd or SJs 1st for a 3rd or 4th and say a non-Pickard goaltending prospect.

Trade Vermette for a 2nd.

Suck, draft Hedman. Suck the next season, and if you've grabbed Voracek then draft Hall, and if you've grabbed Brassard then instead draft Kabanov.

Future:
Filatov - Spezza - Zubov
Regin - Brassard/Hall - Voracek/Kabanov
Smith - O'Brien - Foligno
Some fourth line

Hedman - Volchenkov
Lee - Karlsson
Picard - Wiercioch

Elliott
goaltending prospect

Won't happen. But having Hedman and Karlsson is a realistic possibility and certainly something I'm excited about.

What I would give to get Wilson from Nashville. He will be the best forward out of that draft last year, I'm calling it now. There isnt anything I dont love about that guy.

I'll take Filatov over Wilson, personally. Much more dynamic offensively, not as physical but very solid defensively. Cody Hodgson may be another Trevor Linden, as well.

I think Stamkos will still end up as a very, very good player too.

Anyway, there's no way they'd give up Wilson for Fisher, if that's what you're driving at.

asq2 wrote:I'll take Filatov over Wilson, personally. Much more dynamic offensively, not as physical but very solid defensively. Cody Hodgson may be another Trevor Linden, as well.

I think Stamkos will still end up as a very, very good player too.

Anyway, there's no way they'd give up Wilson for Fisher, if that's what you're driving at.

I dont know what Im driving at, lol. I love that kind of player though and would take Wilson over Falitov. The nastier the better IMO, and if you have the tallent Wilson does, thats even more attractive.

I look at it like, will Filatov make the other teams life a living hell when he isnt scoring or put fear into his opponent, probably not, but Wilson, again, my fav forward prospect in the NHL right now, no one I would rather have honestly.