GAME DAY: New York Rangers @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm Jan. 10th, 2009

ElliottRules wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

hemlock wrote:Sounds like Elliott was good tonight. As were a few others. Am I reading this right? 1 shot for HEatley? Brutal. This guy seems me be mailing these in. Convince him to waive for his buddy Nash and ship him to Columbus for a 1st, Filatov and Russell.

I cannot believe that I (and others) have done a 180 basically. I want Heatley dealt (not just for his play alone) more than Spezza now. Congrats Heatley, you've claimed Spezza's crown as whipping boy. No easy feat either.

Keep the status quo for another month. By then we ought to be firmly in a bottom 2-3 position, then start the bidding wars. Then we can really see what kids like Z. Smith and Regin can do with callups. At least that might give us something optimistic to talk about.

If we thought there was alot of turnover this past season, I'd say this team will be even more so next season. That could include the coach and GM, although I'd like to see them retained, because clearly this is a player problem.

Yup, I hate myself for disliking another player more than Spezza, didnt think it could be done. Spezza is actually trying, Heatley is just standing there waiting for something to happen.

Spezza might be trying but he needs to get himself some new moves cause the other teams have caught on. Everytime the team is coming out of their end they always pass it to Spezza. You can see the other team immediately head towards Spezza knowing he is going to be getting the puck.

What??? The fake slapper stills works the odd time. :lol!:

ElliottRules wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

hemlock wrote:Sounds like Elliott was good tonight. As were a few others. Am I reading this right? 1 shot for HEatley? Brutal. This guy seems me be mailing these in. Convince him to waive for his buddy Nash and ship him to Columbus for a 1st, Filatov and Russell.

I cannot believe that I (and others) have done a 180 basically. I want Heatley dealt (not just for his play alone) more than Spezza now. Congrats Heatley, you've claimed Spezza's crown as whipping boy. No easy feat either.

Keep the status quo for another month. By then we ought to be firmly in a bottom 2-3 position, then start the bidding wars. Then we can really see what kids like Z. Smith and Regin can do with callups. At least that might give us something optimistic to talk about.

If we thought there was alot of turnover this past season, I'd say this team will be even more so next season. That could include the coach and GM, although I'd like to see them retained, because clearly this is a player problem.

Yup, I hate myself for disliking another player more than Spezza, didnt think it could be done. Spezza is actually trying, Heatley is just standing there waiting for something to happen.

Spezza might be trying but he needs to get himself some new moves cause the other teams have caught on. Everytime the team is coming out of their end they always pass it to Spezza. You can see the other team immediately head towards Spezza knowing he is going to be getting the puck.

I agree man, but the fact of the matter is he is trying right now, and Heatley is just gawd awful. I hope he has asked to be traded in all seriousness. It is not fun at all watching the Sens, the games suck, the crowds suck (rightfully so), and its depressing.

Heatley is the 1st guy to ship out of here, no doubt in my mind. He may be a better player, he made me all world, but he doesnt give a sh it, and that cannot be allowed.

hemlock wrote:

ElliottRules wrote:Just got back from the game. Good game by Elliott. SBP was pretty quite tonight. I think the crowd cheered the most before the beginning of the game when they did a video montage of the World Juniors and then congratulated them on winning the gold. After the second period, the crowd was not into the game and you could have heard a pin drop. Hartsburg even sunk his face in his hands during a Picard give away. I felt that the top 3 had a bad game tonight. The best players on the ie were Foligno, Winchester, and Vermette, even he was able to finish his hits. Maybe Corvo will be able to get another hat trick on Tuesday.

I envision Hartsburg on the bench pulling his tie over his head in noose like fashion. It must get hard to wake up and come to the rink knowing that the team is basically uncoachable (well certain portions of it), and having to worry about his job. After failed stints in Chicago and Anaheim, you have to wonder if a firing in Ottawa after a year or less would pretty well seal his fate and an NHL coach in the future. Shame too, he's a good hockey guy, and he's great with the kids.

Maybe that's what he is. A good junior coach. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think he is a bad NHL coach.

In pro football, recent years have shown great college coaches go the NFL and be disasters. It doesn't mean that they are not good coaches, they just can't handle that level.

I think Hartsburg is a good hockey man, but I think that it is crystal clear that he is not the coach for this team.

dennycrane wrote:I just got back from the game. The seats weren't too close to the ice. On most nights, that is a drawback. Not tonight.

Here are some of the highlights (lowlights):
1. Elliott was good. Not great, but he looked solid. He was certainly no worse than Auld or Gerber have been. In truth, the Rangers weren't very impressive.
2. Heatley, more than anyone else, looks lost. Fisher is a close second.
3. Spezza had a decent night. Not great, but he and Alfie were at least showing something in the offensive zone. Vermette and Kelly contained the puck well, but generated nothing.
4. This team is not playing with any determination or energy. In other words, they look like a team begging to be broken up. A coaching change is now necessary.
5. Chants of 'we want Tavares' were replaced by chants of 'we're getting Tavares' after the second goal.
6. Crowd was dead.
7. A few cheers at the healthy scratch of Gerber.

The highlight was a groom-to-be was shown on the screen in one of those tight pink jerseys. Classic.

Damn fans. Don't they know they should be cheering "We want Hedman"!

Those ladies pink jerseys are hot....on women. Men...not so much.

dennycrane wrote:I just got back from the game. The seats weren't too close to the ice. On most nights, that is a drawback. Not tonight.

Here are some of the highlights (lowlights):
1. Elliott was good. Not great, but he looked solid. He was certainly no worse than Auld or Gerber have been. In truth, the Rangers weren't very impressive.
2. Heatley, more than anyone else, looks lost. Fisher is a close second.
3. Spezza had a decent night. Not great, but he and Alfie were at least showing something in the offensive zone. Vermette and Kelly contained the puck well, but generated nothing.
4. This team is not playing with any determination or energy. In other words, they look like a team begging to be broken up. A coaching change is now necessary.
5. Chants of 'we want Tavares' were replaced by chants of 'we're getting Tavares' after the second goal.
6. Crowd was dead.
7. A few cheers at the healthy scratch of Gerber.

The highlight was a groom-to-be was shown on the screen in one of those tight pink jerseys. Classic.

I would say the highlight of the game was Lee getting absolutly schooled by Zherdev, haha. But thats basically how I feel as well.

If we could do Heatley and Kuba to Columbus for a package of Leclaire and maybe two of Filatov, Brassard and Voracek, I'd be very pleased.

dennycrane wrote:

hemlock wrote:

ElliottRules wrote:Just got back from the game. Good game by Elliott. SBP was pretty quite tonight. I think the crowd cheered the most before the beginning of the game when they did a video montage of the World Juniors and then congratulated them on winning the gold. After the second period, the crowd was not into the game and you could have heard a pin drop. Hartsburg even sunk his face in his hands during a Picard give away. I felt that the top 3 had a bad game tonight. The best players on the ie were Foligno, Winchester, and Vermette, even he was able to finish his hits. Maybe Corvo will be able to get another hat trick on Tuesday.

I envision Hartsburg on the bench pulling his tie over his head in noose like fashion. It must get hard to wake up and come to the rink knowing that the team is basically uncoachable (well certain portions of it), and having to worry about his job. After failed stints in Chicago and Anaheim, you have to wonder if a firing in Ottawa after a year or less would pretty well seal his fate and an NHL coach in the future. Shame too, he's a good hockey guy, and he's great with the kids.

Maybe that's what he is. A good junior coach. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think he is a bad NHL coach.

In pro football, recent years have shown great college coaches go the NFL and be disasters. It doesn't mean that they are not good coaches, they just can't handle that level.

I think Hartsburg is a good hockey man, but I think that it is crystal clear that he is not the coach for this team.

Perhaps you are right. But honestly, right now, this team is a coach killer. I can't imagine many if any guys that could make this team as is, better. The coach can't move the puck up ice, and if a guy doesn't care, he just doesn't care. If we go into a full scale rebuild, I wouldn't mind Hartsburg kept to see what he can do. If not, I'll take Quinn. I think Torts is an option as well. Burns would be wickedly wicked, but I think he'd have already found a job if he really wanted to come back.

dennycrane wrote:I think Hartsburg is a good hockey man, but I think that it is crystal clear that he is not the coach for this team.

I don't think there is anyone that can coach these guys right now. Sad but true. Bring on Hedman!!

asq2 wrote:If we could do Heatley and Kuba to Columbus for a package of Leclaire and maybe two of Filatov, Brassard and Voracek, I'd be very pleased.

Dah, I would stay away from Leclaire, not much impresses me about him, and he is always injured.

Everything else, sure, haha.

asq2 wrote:If we could do Heatley and Kuba to Columbus for a package of Leclaire and maybe two of Filatov, Brassard and Voracek, I'd be very pleased.

Yikes! Leclaire really scares me with his injury history. Snagging two of those young guys would be several steps in the right direction.

Quite honestly, I think the deal I propsed helps us more. Filatov, a 1st (which should be middle to late) and Russell helps us quite a bit. We ought to send Howson a dvd with highlights of Nash and Heatley at the Worlds, with a note saying "All this could be yours...if the price is right"

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:If we could do Heatley and Kuba to Columbus for a package of Leclaire and maybe two of Filatov, Brassard and Voracek, I'd be very pleased.

Dah, I would stay away from Leclaire, not much impresses me about him, and he is always injured.

Everything else, sure, haha.

Leclaire is for salary and value purposes. Maybe throw in Auld.

Tortorella would be an amazing quote, but we can't forget that he took a similar team to last place last year.

It's clear that this year is done. The question is who do you want to coach the team next year? If that person is available now, get him. If not, let Hartsburg finish the year. If Hartsburg is the guy, fine, but he will be on such a short leash next year, the pressure may be too much for a team that clearly can't handle the pressure.

ElliottRules wrote:

dennycrane wrote:I think Hartsburg is a good hockey man, but I think that it is crystal clear that he is not the coach for this team.

I don't think there is anyone that can coach these guys right now. Sad but true. Bring on Hedman!!

Everytime I think of Ottawa stepping up to the podium and and announcing that they are "pleased to select from MoDo, Viktor Hedman", I wet my pants just a little bit.

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:If we could do Heatley and Kuba to Columbus for a package of Leclaire and maybe two of Filatov, Brassard and Voracek, I'd be very pleased.

Yikes! Leclaire really scares me with his injury history. Snagging two of those young guys would be several steps in the right direction.

Quite honestly, I think the deal I propsed helps us more. Filatov, a 1st (which should be middle to late) and Russell helps us quite a bit. We ought to send Howson a dvd with highlights of Nash and Heatley at the Worlds, with a note saying "All this could be yours...if the price is right"

Leclaire is for salary/value purposes (value is negative).

Still, I'll take him if it means replacing Russell and their 1st with one of Brassard or Voracek.

If we deal Heatley, I'd love to get this second-line centre thing definitively solved for the future. That way, if we can't catch the Isles for Tavares, at least we have an easier time taking Hedman.

hemlock wrote:

ElliottRules wrote:

dennycrane wrote:I think Hartsburg is a good hockey man, but I think that it is crystal clear that he is not the coach for this team.

I don't think there is anyone that can coach these guys right now. Sad but true. Bring on Hedman!!

Everytime I think of Ottawa stepping up to the podium and and announcing that they are "pleased to select from MoDo, Viktor Hedman", I wet my pants just a little bit.

Oh yeah. Hedman dominates on the first pairing, Karlsson runs the show on the second.

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

I am not sure that I agree. I think our depth was worse I mean entire organization under Muckler. Our top prospects included Kaigorodov, Hennesey, etc...

Now we have M Karlsson, E Karlsson, Lee on 'd' who are all legitimate.

Elliot who is legit.

Regin, O'Brien, Zubov, Smith, Bass etc on forward.

I like all these guys and I couldn't name that many in the past few years that I remember much less were looking forward to.

Also, on another topic, I was wrong about Marshal Johnson (sp?), looking back he was pribably the best GM we ever had. He was very unsexy, (male Rosie O'Donnel in a$$less chaps would be sexier) but the dude knew hockey. I do however think that Murray has been decent on the trade front always coming out on top. But he had real problems giving our mid level players a lot of money and he has not addressed the glaring need for a stud defenceman or true #1 goalie which have been glaring needs. I personally would have done it at all costs. Personally if I was GM (sorrry I know there was another thread) J Bo would be in our lineup and locked up longterm by the end of the week. I would make Martin an offer he couldn't refuse. If I failed there I would be pushing Toronto hard for Kaberle and Toskala. Their value is as low as it has ever been (although they still have value). I think we could get them to take Gerber as they are unconcerned about cap space, add Lee, SJs first and Zubov, maybe that is enough. If not add a second? maybe?

Well after tonight's star peformance, we are officially in second last place in the league. Keep those losses coming.

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Our depth might be the worst in organizational history since the inaugural season.

That right there is the reason you blow it up. Muckler traded away everything, and drafted Russians, and now its killing us!

Want to see something scary. The following shows why our organizational depth is so bad. It shows all the players we drafted in the last 10 years that made the NHL whether us or another team.

Pre Muckler

1999	2000
Havlat - gone	Volchenkov
Kelly	Vermette
Prusek - gone	Zanon - gone

Decent Drafting, 5 players played for us and while 2 moved on we still got some good players from these drafts feeding into our team.

2001

Spezza

Gleason - gone

Emery - gone

Schubert

Laich - gone

Bochenski - gone

This was by far our best draft. Most people I've talked to state that Muckler had little to do with this draft. This was mostly Johnson like 1999 and 2000. His scouts, and his staff doing the drafting as Muckler joined immediately prior to this draft. Still good draft. I believe they all played for us (maybe not Laich) but at one point or another they all fed into our team.

2002	2003	2004	2005
Kaigorodov - gone	Eaves - gone	Meszaros - gone	Lee
	Elliott	Glass ??	Bass
		Nikulin - gone	Zubov

2006

Foligno

That's depressing. Muckler set this team back 5 years with that drafting. It's a miracle we have managed to stay competitive give this. It's really about time we started to suck as we haven't had any players drafted to help our team.