Senators trying to trade Jason Smith?

Everything went in for Cheechoo in ONE YEAR. Thats it, ONE YEAR!

I wouldnt say Spezza and Heatley are useless, but the quality of play goes down such a signifigant amount its impossible to justify paying either 7 million a year. Alfi makes that line and team go.

A 36 year old, injury ridden player shouldnt be making 2 guys in their prime, making that kind of cash go. It's a needless situation and once Alfi is gone or a shell of his former self (and its coming), Ottawa might be in for a looooooooong rebuild.

cash wrote:
Havlat, Hossa, Stillman, Vermette, Shannon, Comrie, Schaeffer, Neil, Kelly, Ruutu, Donovan, Winchester, Bochenski... Spezza has failed to make any of them better.

You put Crosby with Talbot and Armstrong and he still puts up 100 points....

It's not really a strong argument either way... The simple fact is that when you take Alfredsson off that line, they're useless.

Also, you can't really justify saying Cheechoo has a "scoring touch you can't teach" Imo

Havlat, Hossa? Hossa was here before Spezza started his PPG pace, Havlat and Spezza never played together. The only time I think I ever saw Stillman on the same ice as Spezza was the PP. Shannon was good with Spezza and Heatley - for the ONE shift he played there. Vermette is a center - anywhere else and he's useless. Plus, he choked when Hartsburg put him up there. Absolutely sucked.

Comrie never played with Spezza. Nor did Shaeffer, Neil sucks offensively either way. Donovan? Ruutu? Seriously?

I think this proves the point perfectly. When you try to put Dung up there with Spezza and Heatley - you can't force them to score. They'll miss like you've never seen - or just plain suck, but the point of this is, we haven't seen what can happen when you put someone of high quality with Spezza and Heatley.

when havlat and hossa was there Martin was coach and he was pulling up and putting down spezza not able to make a decision what to do

Spezza should be good enough at 7 million a year to improve anyone in the leagues play. It doesnt matter if its "crap" or not. Again, Spezza is paid to make others better, same with Heatley.

I have a hard time justifying Ruutu. what is he, 2.5? could they have not gotten a better player for that money?

504Heater wrote:

cash wrote:
Havlat, Hossa, Stillman, Vermette, Shannon, Comrie, Schaeffer, Neil, Kelly, Ruutu, Donovan, Winchester, Bochenski... Spezza has failed to make any of them better.

You put Crosby with Talbot and Armstrong and he still puts up 100 points....

It's not really a strong argument either way... The simple fact is that when you take Alfredsson off that line, they're useless.

Also, you can't really justify saying Cheechoo has a "scoring touch you can't teach" Imo

Havlat, Hossa? Hossa was here before Spezza started his PPG pace, Havlat and Spezza never played together. The only time I think I ever saw Stillman on the same ice as Spezza was the PP. Shannon was good with Spezza and Heatley - for the ONE shift he played there. Vermette is a center - anywhere else and he's useless. Plus, he choked when Hartsburg put him up there. Absolutely sucked.

Comrie never played with Spezza. Nor did Shaeffer, Neil sucks offensively either way. Donovan? Ruutu? Seriously?

I think this proves the point perfectly. When you try to put Dung up there with Spezza and Heatley - you can't force them to score. They'll miss like you've never seen - or just plain suck, but the point of this is, we haven't seen what can happen when you put someone of high quality with Spezza and Heatley.

The problem is that we shouldnt have to put someone of "high quality" for that line to produce. Yet without Alfie they become quasi-average...

HowieMorenz wrote:I have a hard time justifying Ruutu. what is he, 2.5? could they have not gotten a better player for that money?

Ruutu is 1.3 ml.

ooops tx neels, not so bad ...

ruutu is here for a decent contract

Neely4Life wrote:Spezza should be good enough at 7 million a year to improve anyone in the leagues play. It doesnt matter if its "crap" or not. Again, Spezza is paid to make others better, same with Heatley.

Not gonna happen. Crosby whined all year for the Pens to get him a winger. They finally did at the deadline in Kunitz (and Guerin it turned out) and you see where it lead them.

Crosby still played hard when he had nobodys to play with, but he was way less effective.

Ruutu is esily worth 1.3 mil, he is on the PK and is great in the shootout... very valuable player who takes a regular shift with other intangibles. Id be fine with him at 2 mil.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Spezza should be good enough at 7 million a year to improve anyone in the leagues play. It doesnt matter if its "crap" or not. Again, Spezza is paid to make others better, same with Heatley.

Not gonna happen. Crosby whined all year for the Pens to get him a winger. They finally did at the deadline in Kunitz (and Guerin it turned out) and you see where it lead them.

Crosby still played hard when he had nobodys to play with, but he was way less effective.

Less effective, not useless.

Blazer wrote:
The problem is that we shouldnt have to put someone of "high quality" for that line to produce. Yet without Alfie they become quasi-average...

Okay, let me re-phrase. How about someone of any quality? Let's give that a shot. The only player they've played with who's any good whatsoever is Alfredsson.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Ruutu, Winchester etc. But they're bottom of the barrel when it comes to top 3 forwards.

Neely4Life wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Spezza should be good enough at 7 million a year to improve anyone in the leagues play. It doesnt matter if its "crap" or not. Again, Spezza is paid to make others better, same with Heatley.

Not gonna happen. Crosby whined all year for the Pens to get him a winger. They finally did at the deadline in Kunitz (and Guerin it turned out) and you see where it lead them.

Crosby still played hard when he had nobodys to play with, but he was way less effective.

Less effective, not useless.

He was pretty useless some nights. Malkin had to be shifted to his wing in order for him to do anything. Then they tried Staal and that was a bust. So they'd go back to Talbot and Sykora. Then back to Malkin...

Still, this is the best hockey player in the world - and he struggled big time. Their PP was awesome, but the 5 on 5 play was average at best. Luckily for the Pens the Malkin/Sykora line took over and it overshadowed it. There's a reason Malkin's up for the Hart this year.

504Heater wrote:

Blazer wrote:
The problem is that we shouldnt have to put someone of "high quality" for that line to produce. Yet without Alfie they become quasi-average...

Okay, let me re-phrase. How about someone of any quality? Let's give that a shot. The only player they've played with who's any good whatsoever is Alfredsson.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Ruutu, Winchester etc. But they're bottom of the barrel when it comes to top 3 forwards.

They shouldnt need a top 3 forward there, not even top 6... If you need more than 18-20 million on a line, so 14.5 of it can produce at a realistic rate, then there are problems.

Which leads me right back to Mike Fisher. You need to pick it up - NOW. 2nd line center my arse.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Spezza should be good enough at 7 million a year to improve anyone in the leagues play. It doesnt matter if its "crap" or not. Again, Spezza is paid to make others better, same with Heatley.

Not gonna happen. Crosby whined all year for the Pens to get him a winger. They finally did at the deadline in Kunitz (and Guerin it turned out) and you see where it lead them.

Crosby still played hard when he had nobodys to play with, but he was way less effective.

Less effective, not useless.

He was pretty useless some nights. Malkin had to be shifted to his wing in order for him to do anything. Then they tried Staal and that was a bust. So they'd go back to Talbot and Sykora. Then back to Malkin...

Still, this is the best hockey player in the world - and he struggled big time. Their PP was awesome, but the 5 on 5 play was average at best. Luckily for the Pens the Malkin/Sykora line took over and it overshadowed it. There's a reason Malkin's up for the Hart this year.

Crosby needed ONE winger, not 2 all world players beside him. BIG difference. Give Crosby, Heatley alone, lets see what would happen. I would be willing to bet he doesnt need Alfi there.

Neely4Life wrote:
They shouldnt need a top 3 forward there, not even top 6... If you need more than 18-20 million on a line, so 14.5 of it can produce at a realistic rate, then there are problems.

Every top line center has 2 great wingers. And if they don't, you can bet your life they're trying to get them.