Are the Sens done making moves?

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Let's envision a scenario where The Alfie retires (blasphemy, I know), Spezza gets injured, 9MM gets injured, Latendresse gets injured, Silf doesn't find his groove, and our D struggles.

I think the one thing we know for sure at this point is that will be rock solid. As we saw at the start of last year, though, that can only get you so far if the D in front of you is a mess.

Sure. If Pitts loses Malkin, Crosby, and Neal they might be in trouble too.

Yes, I agree, if everything goes wrong for the Sens like it did 2 seasons ago they are in trouble. Might as well plan to replace the team just incase the plane crashes too while everyone is at it.

Pens might be in trouble if MAF plays like he did in April.

NEELY wrote:The other thing that is just too funny reading from Sens fans is how bad Kuba was 2 seasons ago, he's worthless, buy him out, lol, but now he's a huge loss and Methot isn't anywhere near the D man he is.

Honestly, the Sens fans as a whole like the Leafs and Habs are just as stupid.

2 years ago he was worthless. Last year, he was much more valuable. People change their minds because he made them change their minds with his play. Methot has nothing to do with it. People are/were upset, because he's perceived to be the replacement of Kuba, and although he's more capable defensively than Kuba, he doesn't appear to have the same offensive chops, which is important playing beside Karlsson. It seems like we've replaced an all-around defenseman with a one dimensional guy. That's the general perception I see around the 'net.

Your "honest critique" of Sens fans in general, doesn't make you sound knowledgeable, or hip and cool. It makes you sound like an elitist. Guess what? You're wrong sometimes too.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Let's envision a scenario where The Alfie retires (blasphemy, I know), Spezza gets injured, 9MM gets injured, Latendresse gets injured, Silf doesn't find his groove, and our D struggles.

I think the one thing we know for sure at this point is that will be rock solid. As we saw at the start of last year, though, that can only get you so far if the D in front of you is a mess.

Sure. If Pitts loses Malkin, Crosby, and Neal they might be in trouble too.

Yes, I agree, if everything goes wrong for the Sens like it did 2 seasons ago they are in trouble. Might as well plan to replace the team just incase the plane crashes too while everyone is at it.

Pens might be in trouble if MAF plays like he did in April.

Vokoun is a nice insurance policy though, methinks.

Love how all threads get so far off topic.

If O'Brien and Daugavins are resigned, they are at 50 contracts. I think they will make a move.

hemlock wrote:

NEELY wrote:

hemlock wrote:

NEELY wrote:If the Sens can make the playoffs and avoid the Pens... could be a solid run. They are not far off from going after the Bruins in the division and really making some noise. They are a good team.

One big time winger and the Sens will be ultra tough to play against.

This seems incredibly optimistic to me. Buffalo will be better (and were in the latter part of last season) so it's dismissive to assume that the division is a two-horse race.

Tough to play against and winning enough to make the playoffs aren't mutually exclusive. Despite the fact that NJ will probably be worse, Carolina and TB will be better almost assuredly than they were last year.

The Sens are in tough to make the playoffs even if they overachieve like they did last year. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Oh yah... Leino is for sure a #1 center. Their defense is "meh". Might be a little grittier but that's about it. Don't see how TB is going to be better... their defense is awful and they have no idea how Lindback is going to perform.

Carolina... marginally better IMO but that's a team that can grow a little. Staal isn't a huge upgrade over Sutter.

Everyone keeps saying "this team will be better, that team will be better" year after year... it's always the same thing. Philly is already worse, NJ is already worse, Tampa did nothing but add big contracts with little value attached to them, Montreal, Toronto, and NYI won't be much better.

The East sucks.

They've got Leino, Ennis, Gerbe, Ott, and Hodgson. I don't know how but that group is going to have to cover the whopping loss of Derek Roy. He of a big 44 point season last year. Not a huge loss. Ott alone should almost cover that point production as well as be a good faceoff man and agitator. Add in Hodgson for a full year, and they should be fine.

Other than that, just how did Buffalo get worse? They added a solid depth guy in Pardy to an already decent defence. They've got a Vezina calibre goaltender who will keep them in games. Facts are facts: After a slower start to last season, they came on hard in the latter stages of the season, very nearly overtaking the Sens (surely you can remember that). After a season of several changes, they won't have to spend as much time gelling as a team this season and should come out of the gate hard.

It's amazing to me how you can continually sell other teams short while continuing to be oblivious to the Senators shortcomings and question marks. This is a bad defensive hockey club. Period. Full Stop. How much better we may have gotten with Methot will be offset somewhat by regressions in the play of Phillips and particularly Gonchar ("2 solid vets" in your words). Can we really expect another Norris year from Karlsson? I think he'll be spectacular, but he won't lap everyone like he did this past season imo. Will Spezza remain healthy? How about 9MM, or Latendresse? Will Alfie retire? If so, how do we fill the gap of him and Foligno leaving? Oh that's right....our untested prospects.

The saving grace is Anderson between the pipes who should be primed to perform well after some good numbers in his first year in Ottawa. Of course, everyone in Colorado said that after his first year there didn't they? He's no slam dunk. And neither are either of our raw goaltending prospects (Bishop may be NHL ready, but starter ready? Who knows).

Your reasons for saying a team like TB isn't better because Lindback is unproven, and Carolina isn't better because Staal isn't much of an upgrade over Sutter, etc etc all apply to the Senators, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that. We have just as many (if not more) question marks than ANY of those teams.

There are a zillion question marks for this team. Murray (rightfully so) didn't make a knee reaction and overpay on a FA or two in the false belief that this team is a contender. They aren't. This current course they are on is the best course of action in my opinion. Leave some holes so that there is some quality ice time you can divide up amongst the youth. Give those younger players some insulated, quality minutes to break them in and they'll be better for it in a couple of years when things really start coming together.

Could be the weakest center ice in the NHL not that Gerbe or Ott are centers. Pretty sure Roy was putting up very solid #'s outside of last season for most of his career there. Who's going to take that #1 spot? Lieno (worst signing by a mile last season)? Hodgson? The kid that didn't register a point in his first 13 games in Buffalo and already asked to be moved despite proving nothing? Ott's a solid player but pretty sure when you have almost a PPG guy like Ribeiro playing beside you that can have an effect on your point totals... as well as Jamie Benn. Who's going to get the puck to Ott? Leino? Right.

I continue to sell other teams short? You mean like last year when I said that the Sabres, Leafs, Canes, Habs, Lightning, were not better teams than the Sens. I don't sell teams short, I call it like it is.

Reason I said TB isn't better is because they aren't. Is Lindback a better goaltender than Garon? No clue, might be, might not be. Is their defence better? Nope, just way more expensive and Ohlund was better than anyone they brought in. Their offense? Just another year older and they got rid of a solid player in Downie as well without really replacing him. Stamkos could score 60 again though.

Carolina? They aren't much better. If that same logic applies to the Sens then who came in and replaced Turris? Oh yah, they still have Turris and the expectation and the smart prediction is he has a season that's better than 29 points.

What are the big question marks? Does the team stay healthy? Yah, like every other team in every other sport. I'll give you that one. What else? Does Methot mesh with Karlsson? Guess we'll find out but they both skate well and Methot doesn't make many mistakes. Do the rookies come in and actually produce? Like every other team in the NHL guess we'll find out. Goaltending? Just one of the deepest in the NHL now and Bishop doesn't need to be the starter, he just needs to be a lot better than Auld which he is.

Teams with a #1 center, a #1 D, and a #1 goalie make the playoffs most of the time. Tampa... no #1 D and as of right now no proven #1 goalie. Toronto? They don't have a #1 anywhere. Carolina... they might get in becuase they have the horses on the back end to do it in large part because of the group. NJ, no chance. NYI, don't make me laugh. Florida... yah we'll see how they do with Theodore and Clemensson again behind a D group that got weaker and the fact teams might actually show up to play them this year. Philly? Probably the biggest question mark in the East, they lost Jagr, Pronger, and Carle and replaced them with no one.

The teams that are locks are Pitts, Boston, and NYR, that's it. The Sens are one of the better teams in the East because they are deep everywhere and have guys that can step in and do the job in short spurts.

I still can't believe you think Buffalo got better... they got bigger and tougher for sure but unless Scott learns how to skate at a atom level he won't be in the lineup very often.

hemlock wrote:

NEELY wrote:The other thing that is just too funny reading from Sens fans is how bad Kuba was 2 seasons ago, he's worthless, buy him out, lol, but now he's a huge loss and Methot isn't anywhere near the D man he is.

Honestly, the Sens fans as a whole like the Leafs and Habs are just as stupid.

2 years ago he was worthless. Last year, he was much more valuable. People change their minds because he made them change their minds with his play. Methot has nothing to do with it. People are/were upset, because he's perceived to be the replacement of Kuba, and although he's more capable defensively than Kuba, he doesn't appear to have the same offensive chops, which is important playing beside Karlsson. It seems like we've replaced an all-around defenseman with a one dimensional guy. That's the general perception I see around the 'net.

Your "honest critique" of Sens fans in general, doesn't make you sound knowledgeable, or hip and cool. It makes you sound like an elitist. Guess what? You're wrong sometimes too.

And the smarts ones realize players have off years, especially ones that were very solid for years on end. Smart people being myself.

Highlighted the important part but it should read rarely. Colorado was my only flub from last year in terms of where I thought teams would finish. Sad St.Louis would win the division, said Minny would fall out, said Ottawa would make the playoffs. Only thing I didn't see coming was Florida along with everyone else... they will be around the #10 spot this year like they should be though.

NEELY wrote:
And the smarts ones realize players have off years, especially ones that were very solid for years on end. Smart people being myself.

I was going to tell you that you come across as a genius, but it's good you already recognize this.

dennycrane wrote:Love how all threads get so far off topic.

If O'Brien and Daugavins are resigned, they are at 50 contracts. I think they will make a move.

That's not right, we're at 44 contract with 4 RFAs to sign.

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=23

Unless I'm missing something.

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:
And the smarts ones realize players have off years, especially ones that were very solid for years on end. Smart people being myself.

I was going to tell you that you come across as a genius, but it's good you already recognize this.

Absolutely!

I know people hate it when I am correct but people need to know they are incorrect. It's more pointing that out than blowing my own horn.

hemlock wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Let's envision a scenario where The Alfie retires (blasphemy, I know), Spezza gets injured, 9MM gets injured, Latendresse gets injured, Silf doesn't find his groove, and our D struggles.

I think the one thing we know for sure at this point is that will be rock solid. As we saw at the start of last year, though, that can only get you so far if the D in front of you is a mess.

Sure. If Pitts loses Malkin, Crosby, and Neal they might be in trouble too.

Yes, I agree, if everything goes wrong for the Sens like it did 2 seasons ago they are in trouble. Might as well plan to replace the team just incase the plane crashes too while everyone is at it.

Pens might be in trouble if MAF plays like he did in April.

Vokoun is a nice insurance policy though, methinks.

He was awesome in Washington.

I think Lundin is the guy that the Sens hope will replace some of that missing offence that Kuba provided, and Methot, who is apparently a decent skater, will replace the physicality that Carkner had, but on a more consistent and reliable basis.

So to me it would make the most sense to pair Karlsson with Methot, who can insultate him, provide some steady defensive insurance - not that Karlsson is poor defensively, we know otherwise - it just allows Karlsson to be a little mroe aggressive offensively knowing there's a guy waiting back there in case Dung happens.

Lundin and Phillips will be kind of the same idea. Allow Lundin some flexibility to make plays while Phillips plays it safe.

And Cowen and Gonchar, again the same idea. Rock steady defenceman and a guy who will take some gambles to make the play.

Riprock wrote:I think Lundin is the guy that the Sens hope will replace some of that missing offence that Kuba provided, and Methot, who is apparently a decent skater, will replace the physicality that Carkner had, but on a more consistent and reliable basis.

So to me it would make the most sense to pair Karlsson with Methot, who can insultate him, provide some steady defensive insurance - not that Karlsson is poor defensively, we know otherwise - it just allows Karlsson to be a little mroe aggressive offensively knowing there's a guy waiting back there in case Dung happens.

Lundin and Phillips will be kind of the same idea. Allow Lundin some flexibility to make plays while Phillips plays it safe.

And Cowen and Gonchar, again the same idea. Rock steady defenceman and a guy who will take some gambles to make the play.

Ummm, don't think so. He has pretty close to no offense in his game. Maybe he goes on to get 35-40 points on the bottom pairing... maybe Condra put up a PPG too.

Riprock wrote:I think Lundin is the guy that the Sens hope will replace some of that missing offence that Kuba provided, and Methot, who is apparently a decent skater, will replace the physicality that Carkner had, but on a more consistent and reliable basis.

So to me it would make the most sense to pair Karlsson with Methot, who can insultate him, provide some steady defensive insurance - not that Karlsson is poor defensively, we know otherwise - it just allows Karlsson to be a little mroe aggressive offensively knowing there's a guy waiting back there in case Dung happens.

Lundin and Phillips will be kind of the same idea. Allow Lundin some flexibility to make plays while Phillips plays it safe.

And Cowen and Gonchar, again the same idea. Rock steady defenceman and a guy who will take some gambles to make the play.

I think so too. Lundin had 45 points in 82 AHL games, he's definitely got some offense. I wouldn't be surprised to see MacLean use him as the number 6 guy 5 on 5 and put him on either PP1 or PP2 to try it out.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:I think Lundin is the guy that the Sens hope will replace some of that missing offence that Kuba provided, and Methot, who is apparently a decent skater, will replace the physicality that Carkner had, but on a more consistent and reliable basis.

So to me it would make the most sense to pair Karlsson with Methot, who can insultate him, provide some steady defensive insurance - not that Karlsson is poor defensively, we know otherwise - it just allows Karlsson to be a little mroe aggressive offensively knowing there's a guy waiting back there in case Dung happens.

Lundin and Phillips will be kind of the same idea. Allow Lundin some flexibility to make plays while Phillips plays it safe.

And Cowen and Gonchar, again the same idea. Rock steady defenceman and a guy who will take some gambles to make the play.

I think so too. Lundin had 45 points in 82 AHL games, he's definitely got some offense. I wouldn't be surprised to see MacLean use him as the number 6 guy 5 on 5 and put him on either PP1 or PP2 to try it out.

How many points did Brian Lee have in the AHL?

I just don't see where all the confusion is coming from. Not much has changed since the rebuild began and the Murray's have shown they have no intention to deviate from their plan. Getting both Stone and Silf a game in the playoffs was a perfect example of that.

These 2 signings are more evidence of that. Cowen will be playing with Karlsson. Does anyone not see Cowen as a #2 defenseman? So, let's give him the opportunity to develop into this role. Now is the time to do it. We added a gritty stay at home guy that can actually handle some minutes (better than Carks as much as I love the guy) and got a guy with more offensive upside than Lee which is what they originally tried to do with the Gilroy trade.

Vandelay wrote:I just don't see where all the confusion is coming from. Not much has changed since the rebuild began and the Murray's have shown they have no intention to deviate from their plan. Getting both Stone and Silf a game in the playoffs was a perfect example of that.

These 2 signings are more evidence of that. Cowen will be playing with Karlsson. Does anyone not see Cowen as a #2 defenseman? So, let's give him the opportunity to develop into this role. Now is the time to do it. We added a gritty stay at home guy that can actually handle some minutes (better than Carks as much as I love the guy) and got a guy with more offensive upside than Lee which is what they originally tried to do with the Gilroy trade.

Well said, Vandelay. You have to wonder though, "Are the Sens done making moves?"

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:I think Lundin is the guy that the Sens hope will replace some of that missing offence that Kuba provided, and Methot, who is apparently a decent skater, will replace the physicality that Carkner had, but on a more consistent and reliable basis.

So to me it would make the most sense to pair Karlsson with Methot, who can insultate him, provide some steady defensive insurance - not that Karlsson is poor defensively, we know otherwise - it just allows Karlsson to be a little mroe aggressive offensively knowing there's a guy waiting back there in case Dung happens.

Lundin and Phillips will be kind of the same idea. Allow Lundin some flexibility to make plays while Phillips plays it safe.

And Cowen and Gonchar, again the same idea. Rock steady defenceman and a guy who will take some gambles to make the play.

I think so too. Lundin had 45 points in 82 AHL games, he's definitely got some offense. I wouldn't be surprised to see MacLean use him as the number 6 guy 5 on 5 and put him on either PP1 or PP2 to try it out.

How many points did Brian Lee have in the AHL?

6? I have no idea.

Vandelay wrote:I just don't see where all the confusion is coming from. Not much has changed since the rebuild began and the Murray's have shown they have no intention to deviate from their plan. Getting both Stone and Silf a game in the playoffs was a perfect example of that.

These 2 signings are more evidence of that. Cowen will be playing with Karlsson. Does anyone not see Cowen as a #2 defenseman? So, let's give him the opportunity to develop into this role. Now is the time to do it. We added a gritty stay at home guy that can actually handle some minutes (better than Carks as much as I love the guy) and got a guy with more offensive upside than Lee which is what they originally tried to do with the Gilroy trade.

I sincerely doubt Cowen plays with Karlsson yet. I think they brought in Methot to stabilize his pairing even more and I recall them mentioning that they liked Cowen with Gonchar. I agree though, we're on the right track. Would still like either a weapon up front or a weapon on the back, but it's more likely up front.