GAME DAY - Ottawa Senators @ Florida Panthers, 6PM, Sunday, March 4, 2012

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Would that be the B league after his team gets religated? You have to be kidding. What's with you and thinking everyone needs a little more time?

I didn't think Silfverberg needed more time and look at how much good it's done for him. That goes for basically any prospect who isn't RNH or Hall, they need time to develop. I loved what I saw from Zibanejad, he'll likely be a strong player for us, but he had a roller coaster year in the SEL and never really packed any kind of scoring touch at all. If he was to do as Silfverberg did and play solid, top minutes while maturing and working on aspects of his game (like scoring), that would be a bad thing?

You're thinking he comes over and plays in the AHL I assume, fine, that's a little different, but if the option opened up where he could do like Silf and be a leader (captain even) and have a strong season in Europe, why would you say no to that?

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Yes you are.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially not on his garbage team. He's had a good year all things considered.

He needs to develop over here.

The situation with his crap team would need to be resolved, but again, if he was to get into a position like Silfverberg, I simply don't see how that's a bad thing personally.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Yes you are.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially not on his garbage team. He's had a good year all things considered.

He needs to develop over here.

The situation with his crap team would need to be resolved, but again, if he was to get into a position like Silfverberg, I simply don't see how that's a bad thing personally.

It's pointless given how he is already signed with Ottawa. Silfverberg was not as developed as Zibanejad is at the same age, and he only signed his contract last summer.

If you're a top prospect like Zibanejad you're not going to waste your time playing with and against inferior players in Sweden for more than this season.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Would that be the B league after his team gets religated? You have to be kidding. What's with you and thinking everyone needs a little more time?

I didn't think Silfverberg needed more time and look at how much good it's done for him. That goes for basically any prospect who isn't RNH or Hall, they need time to develop. I loved what I saw from Zibanejad, he'll likely be a strong player for us, but he had a roller coaster year in the SEL and never really packed any kind of scoring touch at all. If he was to do as Silfverberg did and play solid, top minutes while maturing and working on aspects of his game (like scoring), that would be a bad thing?

You're thinking he comes over and plays in the AHL I assume, fine, that's a little different, but if the option opened up where he could do like Silf and be a leader (captain even) and have a strong season in Europe, why would you say no to that?

Silfverberg and Zibanejad aren't comparable. Zibanejad is a Top 10 pick, Silfverberg was a second rounder.

He was never going to light it up on the scoreboard in Sweden like a Backstrom or a guy like that. Fact is he had the 3rd most points out of all "rookies" in Sweden, only behind Pontus Aberg and Johan Larsson. Plus he played like 15+ minutes on average which is great for his development.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Yes you are.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially not on his garbage team. He's had a good year all things considered.

He needs to develop over here.

The situation with his crap team would need to be resolved, but again, if he was to get into a position like Silfverberg, I simply don't see how that's a bad thing personally.

It's pointless given how he is already signed with Ottawa. Silfverberg was not as developed as Zibanejad is at the same age, and he only signed his contract last summer.

If you're a top prospect like Zibanejad you're not going to waste your time playing with and against inferior players in Sweden for more than this season.

I'm happier to hear that than I would be with you just agreeing with me. I know little about him other than his motor is always running and he has potential to make some noise offensively, but you have to admit, it's hard to see his game translating immediately to the NHL.

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

Makes sense to me... question... don't know if it has been answered or not.. but if Mika plays in Bingo does that affect his ELC? If it does.. he might as well play in Ottawa.

Nope. If Zibanejad plays 10 games in the NHL, then his ELC kicks in at year one, and will end on 30 June 2014. If he plays anywhere else other than the NHL, it has no bearing on his ELC -- without playing those 10 games in the NHL, his contract "slides", making next year (2012-13) year 1 of his contract and the end-date of his contract 30 June 2015.

But those are only regular season games if I recall. He could technically have played his 9 regular season games, then play the rest of the season in bingo, and play NHL games only in the playoffs....?

I can't imagine why NHL regular season games would could as "games played in the NHL" and so against his contract, whereas NHL playoff games wouldn't count as "games played in the NHL" and so not count against his contract.

I can't cite the CBA passage (if there is one on this subject) in defence of this, but common sense tells us that an NHL game is an NHL game is an NHL game.

I, for one, wholly expect Zibanejad to go to Bingo once his team's season is done in Sweden. From there, his play will determine if he plays in the NHL this year -- if he's ripping it up, we probably call him up; if he's not, we probably leave him there and save that extra year of his contract.

Not sure, but perhaps it has something to do with not getting paid for the playoffs whereas regular season, you do get paid? Same way as P.K. Subban played in the playoffs for the Habs yet the next season he was still classified as a 'rookie'.

Big Ev wrote:

Silfverberg and Zibanejad aren't comparable. Zibanejad is a Top 10 pick, Silfverberg was a second rounder.

Lots of players in the 2nd round have turned out better than 1st rounders. Silfverberg is older and more developed at this point.

Not saying Zibby is a bust but draft position means little except the % chance that the player becomes a legit NHLer.

SIlfverberg looks great....but so did Rundblad playing in the SEL. I don't think we should use Silverberg as an argument to why Zibby should play again in the SEL. Silf will have to come prove himself in the NHL for that to hold merit.

Michallica wrote:SIlfverberg looks great....but so did Rundblad playing in the SEL. I don't think we should use Silverberg as an argument to why Zibby should play again in the SEL. Silf will have to come prove himself in the NHL for that to hold merit.

Apparently it's apples and oranges because Silf plays such a strong 2-way game while Rundblad...didn't, but I agree, we'll see how it plays out.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Michallica wrote:SIlfverberg looks great....but so did Rundblad playing in the SEL. I don't think we should use Silverberg as an argument to why Zibby should play again in the SEL. Silf will have to come prove himself in the NHL for that to hold merit.

Apparently it's apples and oranges because Silf plays such a strong 2-way game while Rundblad...didn't, but I agree, we'll see how it plays out.

You could be right of course. Alfie played how long in the SEL....

Michallica wrote:SIlfverberg looks great....but so did Rundblad playing in the SEL. I don't think we should use Silverberg as an argument to why Zibby should play again in the SEL. Silf will have to come prove himself in the NHL for that to hold merit.

Historically, top scoring D-men from the SEL haven't been successful in the NHL whereas top scoring forwards have been. I don't know.

SpezDispenser wrote:Also would bet $$ that Bishop gets a call up for next game - not that Lehner was bad, he wasn't, but they want to get Bishop in there - and now's as good a time as any.

I win. Who owes me the $$?

Hoags wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

Silfverberg and Zibanejad aren't comparable. Zibanejad is a Top 10 pick, Silfverberg was a second rounder.

Lots of players in the 2nd round have turned out better than 1st rounders. Silfverberg is older and more developed at this point.

Not saying Zibby is a bust but draft position means little except the % chance that the player becomes a legit NHLer.

How did I know somebody would interpret it this way...That is not at all what I meant. Of course 2nd rounders can turn out better than 1st rounder. All I meant was it's obvious that a second rounder is going to need way more time to develop than a Top 10 pick. Cussing Alfredsson turned out better than most picks in his draft, but he needed a lot more development in order to become the player he is.

Michallica wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

Makes sense to me... question... don't know if it has been answered or not.. but if Mika plays in Bingo does that affect his ELC? If it does.. he might as well play in Ottawa.

Nope. If Zibanejad plays 10 games in the NHL, then his ELC kicks in at year one, and will end on 30 June 2014. If he plays anywhere else other than the NHL, it has no bearing on his ELC -- without playing those 10 games in the NHL, his contract "slides", making next year (2012-13) year 1 of his contract and the end-date of his contract 30 June 2015.

But those are only regular season games if I recall. He could technically have played his 9 regular season games, then play the rest of the season in bingo, and play NHL games only in the playoffs....?

I can't imagine why NHL regular season games would could as "games played in the NHL" and so against his contract, whereas NHL playoff games wouldn't count as "games played in the NHL" and so not count against his contract.

I can't cite the CBA passage (if there is one on this subject) in defence of this, but common sense tells us that an NHL game is an NHL game is an NHL game.

I, for one, wholly expect Zibanejad to go to Bingo once his team's season is done in Sweden. From there, his play will determine if he plays in the NHL this year -- if he's ripping it up, we probably call him up; if he's not, we probably leave him there and save that extra year of his contract.

Not sure, but perhaps it has something to do with not getting paid for the playoffs whereas regular season, you do get paid? Same way as P.K. Subban played in the playoffs for the Habs yet the next season he was still classified as a 'rookie'.

^ That last point is a pretty common occurrence. If you come into a year having played less than X amount of games (I think it's 40), then you are automatically 'a rookie' (i.e., eligible to win the Calder).

The money is a good point, tho'. I just tend to think that the contrary (i.e., that a playoff game would count towards a player's games played), given that I don't ever recall seeing 1) a guy who played his 9 games and then got back sent down and then 2) get called up to play in the playoffs.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I must be the only one who thinks Zibaenejad needs at least one more year in the SEL, if not two.

Yes you are.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially not on his garbage team. He's had a good year all things considered.

He needs to develop over here.

a lot of people forget that Maclean had Zib out in the last minute of his 9th game protecting the lead with Alfie and ? . There's almost no chance he gets sent back next year, especially if Djur gets relegated.

rooneypoo wrote:I can't imagine why NHL regular season games would could as "games played in the NHL" and so against his contract, whereas NHL playoff games wouldn't count as "games played in the NHL" and so not count against his contract.

I can't cite the CBA passage (if there is one on this subject) in defence of this, but common sense tells us that an NHL game is an NHL game is an NHL game.

As Michallica brought up, the Subban situation comes to mind. His ELC carried over, despite the fact that he 14 playoff games.

Big Ev wrote:Silfverberg and Zibanejad aren't comparable. Zibanejad is a Top 10 pick, Silfverberg was a second rounder.

He was never going to light it up on the scoreboard in Sweden like a Backstrom or a guy like that. Fact is he had the 3rd most points out of all "rookies" in Sweden, only behind Pontus Aberg and Johan Larsson. Plus he played like 15+ minutes on average which is great for his development.

Is there any other example of an 18 year old lighting up the SEL at 18 like Backstrom? I can't think of one.

Michallica wrote:SIlfverberg looks great....but so did Rundblad playing in the SEL. I don't think we should use Silverberg as an argument to why Zibby should play again in the SEL. Silf will have to come prove himself in the NHL for that to hold merit.

Cool stat: Silfverberg had 3 points in his first 11 games this year, meaning he's put up 49 points in his last 37 games. That's very rare production, regardless of age or position.

Zibanejad's pace is better than Anze Kopitar's was in his 18 year old SEL season

Big Ev wrote:Zibanejad's pace is better than Anze Kopitar's was in his 18 year old SEL season

Hornqvist and Eriksson too.

cash wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Silfverberg and Zibanejad aren't comparable. Zibanejad is a Top 10 pick, Silfverberg was a second rounder.

He was never going to light it up on the scoreboard in Sweden like a Backstrom or a guy like that. Fact is he had the 3rd most points out of all "rookies" in Sweden, only behind Pontus Aberg and Johan Larsson. Plus he played like 15+ minutes on average which is great for his development.

Is there any other example of an 18 year old lighting up the SEL at 18 like Backstrom? I can't think of one.

Probably the Sedins and Forsberg

Sundin only had 18 in 34 with Djurgarden, and he was drafted 1st overall.