Smyth, not Heatley, traded to Kings; and other stuff

Vandelay wrote:

Big T wrote:It really is. With the cap going down and the lack of many good FAs, next July 1st will be boring

So do we consider an offer sheet? Chicago has Keith, Ladd, Toews, and Kane up for new contracts next year. With that Hossa signing, there's no way they sign all of them.

Dream on if you like about Toews, Kane and Keith. Chicago structured the deal with Hossa for a lower cap hit precisely so they could be signed.

July 1 2010 is a looooong way off.

Offer sheets are gutless, they are for organizations who can't develope their own players and need to raid other teams goods.

If there is one offer sheet this year or next I would be shocked, let alone for one of Toews, Kane, or Keith. Any team that offers an offer to to one of them, you can garentee that they will give an offer sheet to someone else on the other team.

Look what St Louis did last year with Bernier.

davetherave wrote:

Vandelay wrote:

Big T wrote:It really is. With the cap going down and the lack of many good FAs, next July 1st will be boring

So do we consider an offer sheet? Chicago has Keith, Ladd, Toews, and Kane up for new contracts next year. With that Hossa signing, there's no way they sign all of them.

Dream on if you like about Toews, Kane and Keith. Chicago structured the deal with Hossa for a lower cap hit precisely so they could be signed.

July 1 2010 is a looooong way off.

Never mind 2010 -- at which point, btw, there is just no way they can keep all three of Kane, Toews, and Keith without moving at least Campbell; I challenge anyone to show me how the math will work on that one -- how are the Chicago Blackhawks going to keep their team together THIS year?

I pulled Chicago's roster up on CapGeek.com. The 22-man roster (1 short of a full roster) I put together is just $1.3 mil short of the cap -- but that's assuming that Barker, Brouwer, Eager, and Versteeg all come back for what they made last year (about $4.5 mil collectively) -- which, you have to admit, is SUPER unlikely. All this assumes that guys like Fraser and Skille aren't on the team, too.

So.... can CHI even ice the team they've got now? Is, say, burying Sopel in the minors or buying him out an option?

2009-2010 Chicago Blackhawks

FORWARDS

Marian Hossa $5,233,333
Patrick Sharp $3,900,000
Patrick Kane $3,725,000
Dave Bolland $3,375,000
Dustin Byfuglien $3,000,000
Jonathan Toews $2,800,000
John Madden $2,750,000
Andrew Ladd $1,550,000
Tomas Kopecky $1,200,000
Adam Burish $712,500
* Troy Brouwer $675,000
* Ben Eager $600,000
* Kris Versteeg $491,000

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell $7,142,875
Brent Seabrook $3,500,000
* Cam Barker $2,751,000
Brent Sopel $2,333,333
Duncan Keith $1,475,000
Niklas Hjalmarsson $643,333
Jordan Hendry $625,000

GOALTENDERS

Cristobal Huet $5,625,000
Antti Niemi $892,500

BUYOUTS

Curtis Brown $456,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses)

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $55,455,874
BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (8.5% of cap) $4,800,000
CAP ROOM $1,344,126
CAP ROOM PER OPEN SPOT $1,344,126

Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

Neely4Life wrote:Offer sheets are gutless, they are for organizations who can't develope their own players and need to raid other teams goods.

If there is one offer sheet this year or next I would be shocked, let alone for one of Toews, Kane, or Keith. Any team that offers an offer to to one of them, you can garentee that they will give an offer sheet to someone else on the other team.

Look what St Louis did last year with Bernier.

I think it all depends on the curcumstances.  If you're just looking to steal a big name player away from a team, ya it's gutless.  If Chicago puts themselves in a situation where they can't realistically sign all of their players, an offer sheet is beneficial to them.  Rather than lose the player for nothing, they are compensated with picks.  I'm not saying for sure this will be the case with Chicago although I do think they're going to have their mitts full trying to keep everyone.

Vandelay wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Offer sheets are gutless, they are for organizations who can't develope their own players and need to raid other teams goods.

If there is one offer sheet this year or next I would be shocked, let alone for one of Toews, Kane, or Keith. Any team that offers an offer to to one of them, you can garentee that they will give an offer sheet to someone else on the other team.

Look what St Louis did last year with Bernier.

I think it all depends on the curcumstances. If you're just looking to steal a big name player away from a team, ya it's gutless. If Chicago puts themselves in a situation where they can't realistically sign all of their players, an offer sheet is beneficial to them. Rather than lose the player for nothing, they are compensated with picks. I'm not saying for sure this will be the case with Chicago although I do think they're going to have their mitts full trying to keep everyone.

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

This isn't an answer to any of the issues I've raised, and in fact tries to trivialize what are serious concerns.

Forget about 2010 for the moment. Let's look at 2009. You have about $5 mil in cap space, max, and need 5 more roster players. 4 likely candidates are Barker, Brouwer, Versteeg, and Eager (and Fraser would be the likely 5th, I would think).

How do you propose to get those four guys to sign for, oh, $1 mil a piece?

The fact is that CHI is not going to be able to ice the team they seem to have, because it's not going to fit under the cap. And so, yes, I think that's something that Tallon, as GM, ought to be looking into at some point.

rooneypoo wrote:

Never mind 2010 -- at which point, btw, there is just no way they can keep all three of Kane, Toews, and Keith without moving at least Campbell; I challenge anyone to show me how the math will work on that one -- how are the Chicago Blackhawks going to keep their team together THIS year?

I pulled Chicago's roster up on CapGeek.com. The 22-man roster (1 short of a full roster) I put together is just $1.3 mil short of the cap -- but that's assuming that Barker, Brouwer, Eager, and Versteeg all come back for what they made last year (about $4.5 mil collectively) -- which, you have to admit, is SUPER unlikely. All this assumes that guys like Fraser and Skille aren't on the team, too.

So.... can CHI even ice the team they've got now? Is, say, burying Sopel in the minors or buying him out an option?

2009-2010 Chicago Blackhawks

FORWARDS

Marian Hossa $5,233,333
Patrick Sharp $3,900,000
Patrick Kane $3,725,000
Dave Bolland $3,375,000
Dustin Byfuglien $3,000,000
Jonathan Toews $2,800,000
John Madden $2,750,000
Andrew Ladd $1,550,000
Tomas Kopecky $1,200,000
Adam Burish $712,500
* Troy Brouwer $675,000
* Ben Eager $600,000
* Kris Versteeg $491,000

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell $7,142,875
Brent Seabrook $3,500,000
* Cam Barker $2,751,000
Brent Sopel $2,333,333
Duncan Keith $1,475,000
Niklas Hjalmarsson $643,333
Jordan Hendry $625,000

GOALTENDERS

Cristobal Huet $5,625,000
Antti Niemi $892,500

BUYOUTS

Curtis Brown $456,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses)

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $55,455,874
BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (8.5% of cap) $4,800,000
CAP ROOM $1,344,126
CAP ROOM PER OPEN SPOT $1,344,126

Why do I not see Versteeg re-signing for league minimum again? Kane, Toews and Keith are all going to get more money than Hossa next year. That's almost certain.

I just don't see it happening. The Penguins couldn't do it, they damn near lost half of their team in one off-season, struggled to put the pieces together during the regular season until their GM went thrift shopping for bargain pieces that worked out. And they had to give up Ryan Whitney too, which compares for Chicago to a Seabrook.

Not to mention, Khabibulin is out the door and gone now. Is Huet even up to the task handed to him? Especially for that much money.

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

So, if you're sure he's not worried, you must be able to logically explain how he's going to get this done without trading a big contract? Signing Campbell to that ridiculous contract looks bad now...come next off season, it's gonna like really bad when he has to say good bye to one of those three.

rooneypoo wrote:

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

This isn't an answer to any of the issues I've raised, and in fact tries to trivialize what are serious concerns.

Forget about 2010 for the moment. Let's look at 2009. You have about $5 mil in cap space, max, and need 5 more roster players. 4 likely candidates are Barker, Brouwer, Versteeg, and Eager (and Fraser would be the likely 5th, I would think).

How do you propose to get those four guys to sign for, oh, $1 mil a piece?

The fact is that CHI is not going to be able to ice the team they seem to have, because it's not going to fit under the cap. And so, yes, I think that's something that Tallon, as GM, ought to be looking into at some point.

I'm not trivialzing anything.

Chicago has $11.7MM worth of cap space, just got one of the best power forwards in the game, and has plenty of tradeable assets.

Tallon knows what to do...and he has Scotty Bowman to advise him.

Suggest we discuss this in, say, about two months.

Vandelay wrote:

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

So, if you're sure he's not worried, you must be able to logically explain how he's going to get this done without trading a big contract? Signing Campbell to that ridiculous contract looks bad now...come next off season, it's gonna like really bad when he has to say good bye to one of those three.

Still going on about Campbell, eh...

[quote="davetherave"]

Vandelay wrote:

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

So, if you're sure he's not worried, you must be able to logically explain how he's going to get this done without trading a big contract? Signing Campbell to that ridiculous contract looks bad now...come next off season, it's gonna like really bad when he has to say good bye to one of those three.

Still going on about Campbell, eh...

This is actually the first time I've mentioned it because at the time of the signing, they had the cap space...it wasn't an issue.  Now that they're one year away from having to re-sign these guys, I would think, as a Hawks fan, you would also be a little concerned that a so-so defenseman (considering the contract) is locked up long term while 3 young players that should be franchise players, all need new contracts.  I'm not one to rub a bad contract in another teams face...I would just love to know what the game plan is for Chicago.

[quote="Vandelay"]

davetherave wrote:

Vandelay wrote:

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

So, if you're sure he's not worried, you must be able to logically explain how he's going to get this done without trading a big contract? Signing Campbell to that ridiculous contract looks bad now...come next off season, it's gonna like really bad when he has to say good bye to one of those three.

Still going on about Campbell, eh...

This is actually the first time I've mentioned it because at the time of the signing, they had the cap space...it wasn't an issue. Now that they're one year away from having to re-sign these guys, I would think, as a Hawks fan, you would also be a little concerned that a so-so defenseman (considering the contract) is locked up long term while 3 young players that should be franchise players, all need new contracts. I'm not one to rub a bad contract in another teams face...I would just love to know what the game plan is for Chicago.

I think the plan is to give old Bobby G a call in the MTL. Probably get Carey Price out of the deal this time...

davetherave wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

davetherave wrote:Rooney...do you honestly think Tallon is worried? Because he isn't.

This isn't an answer to any of the issues I've raised, and in fact tries to trivialize what are serious concerns.

Forget about 2010 for the moment. Let's look at 2009. You have about $5 mil in cap space, max, and need 5 more roster players. 4 likely candidates are Barker, Brouwer, Versteeg, and Eager (and Fraser would be the likely 5th, I would think).

How do you propose to get those four guys to sign for, oh, $1 mil a piece?

The fact is that CHI is not going to be able to ice the team they seem to have, because it's not going to fit under the cap. And so, yes, I think that's something that Tallon, as GM, ought to be looking into at some point.

I'm not trivialzing anything.

Chicago has $11.7MM worth of cap space, just got one of the best power forwards in the game, and has plenty of tradeable assets.

Tallon knows what to do...and he has Scotty Bowman to advise him.

Suggest we discuss this in, say, about two months.

Ummm... where on earth are you getting that number from? I'm looking at CapGeek and NHLSCAP, and I don't see how yuou can be coming to this conclusion.

According to the printout I'm providing belwo, CHI has $5.8 mil in cap space and 18 players (plus guys on expensive entry-level deals, like Skille and Beach), and still has to deal with Versteeg, Barker, Brouwer, Eager, and Fraser.

So, again, how do you propose to sign those guys and fill up your roster? And how can you possibly not see this as a problem going forward?

2009-2010 Chicago Blackhawks

FORWARDS

Marian Hossa $5,233,333
Patrick Sharp $3,900,000
Patrick Kane $3,725,000
Dave Bolland $3,375,000
Dustin Byfuglien $3,000,000
Jonathan Toews $2,800,000
John Madden $2,750,000
Andrew Ladd $1,550,000
Tomas Kopecky $1,200,000
Adam Burish $712,500

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell $7,142,875
Brent Seabrook $3,500,000
Brent Sopel $2,333,333
Duncan Keith $1,475,000
Niklas Hjalmarsson $643,333
Jordan Hendry $625,000

GOALTENDERS

Cristobal Huet $5,625,000
Antti Niemi $892,500

BUYOUTS
Curtis Brown $456,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses)

ROSTER SIZE 18
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $50,938,874
BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (8.5% of cap) $4,800,000
CAP ROOM $5,861,126
CAP ROOM PER OPEN SPOT $1,172,225

PKC wrote:

I think the plan is to give old Bobby G a call in the MTL. Probably get Carey Price out of the deal this time...

Ya, I was going to add that no one would take that Campbell contract but with Sather and Gainey, you've always got the comfort of two outs...

Is anyone else watching Wimbledon!? This is unreal.

Rooney,

Look at all the bonus money included in the totals. I would think it very unlikely that all those bonuses are attained. However, should they go over the cap due to bonuses that would count against next year's cap, which could severely hamper Tallon next year.

I would be willing to bet that Byfuglien is moved next summer.

RobbyJ wrote:Rooney,

Look at all the bonus money included in the totals. I would think it very unlikely that all those bonuses are attained. However, should they go over the cap due to bonuses that would count against next year's cap, which could severely hamper Tallon next year.

I would be willing to bet that Byfuglien is moved next summer.

I'm about 90% sure that most of that bonus money is from Kane's and Toews's contracts. Entry-level contracts cap out at $850,000, so the rest of what they're making ($3.725 mil and $2.8 mil) is by definition "bonus" money.

Kane: $3.725 mil - $850 = $2.875 mil
Toews: $2.8 mil - $850 = $1.950 mil

= $4.825 mil

Which roughly accords with the CapGeek estimated figure.

These are not performance bonuses. They are signing bonuses, which figure in as part of the player's cap hit just like salary.