The Sens and What IFs

He maybe resigning in Detroit for a lot less than he would get in the open market. That is basically word right from his mouth, believe or dont, I dont think he will be moving from Detroit.

marakh wrote:A few things, Prags

- If you look at the cap for 10/11, you will see that your plan needs a few tweaks here and there.

- Most of the goals Heatley scored in 06/07 were without Spezza. And he was excellent in Atlanta too.

- When I look at Spezza's and Heatley's games, it seems to me that they perform well when they have lucky bounces from time to time (like last night's first goal). It gives them motivation. But never, practically never have I seen them giving 100% from the 1st shift to the last.

I admit I didn't look into 2010/11 but Kuba's NTC kicks out, and A-Train's contract is up. By that time we should have D ready to step it up (Karlssons, maybe Wiercioch).

I don't know how you can say "most". Not to call you out on it, but did you review the game logs? And whether or not he was excellent in Atlanta, he was not a 50 goal scorer.

That last point, well, nobody can argue with that.

Neely4Life wrote:
Where did I say n e thing about Spezza off the ice there? I was saying what Fisher does off the ice is exactly what this team, city, and the fans need. Spezza can do what he wants, but there is no way in hell he would ever turn into a Mike Fisher or a Chris Phlilips off the ice, those 2 are special people who really care about the city of Ottawa and the people in it.

In no way was that a knock towards Spezza, it was a high compliment to Fisher and the defense of why the Sens should not be trading a heart and soul guy, on and off the ice.

Well, you specifically asked (rhetorically) if Spezza would spend time at CHEO. You are calling him out on what (you think) he doesn't do off the ice. That's all. Clear now?

As for Fisher, I'm sure a lot of what he does has to do with his upbringing as a Christian -- and this was not exactly put in the best light by some of the faithful here and over on HB. In fact, am I misremembering or did you have some not-so-favorable things to say about Fisher and Deano because of their beliefs?

Can't really say if Phillips is like that, but I would not be surprised, to tell you the truth.

Neely4Life wrote:
Commodore said it as well.

Oh, this guy? What did he say, exactly? And I don't mean what he said about Murray. From what I recall, pretty much everyone here called him a big tool for that.

SensFan71 wrote:
Am pretty sure Corvo said something to the same effect

Sorry, the only thing I remember about Corvo is how he was down on himself. When he was a slobbering mess the team picked him up and he got better. Frankly, I thought that whole situation was a testament to their team strength. If Corvo had a half testicle left he'd never say anything negative about that bunch of guys.

Let me clarify -- I don't remember him saying anything against his team mates, but that's not to say he didn't. I just don't think he did.

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Where did I say n e thing about Spezza off the ice there? I was saying what Fisher does off the ice is exactly what this team, city, and the fans need. Spezza can do what he wants, but there is no way in hell he would ever turn into a Mike Fisher or a Chris Phlilips off the ice, those 2 are special people who really care about the city of Ottawa and the people in it.

In no way was that a knock towards Spezza, it was a high compliment to Fisher and the defense of why the Sens should not be trading a heart and soul guy, on and off the ice.

Well, you specifically asked (rhetorically) if Spezza would spend time at CHEO. You are calling him out on what (you think) he doesn't do off the ice. That's all. Clear now?

As for Fisher, I'm sure a lot of what he does has to do with his upbringing as a Christian -- and this was not exactly put in the best light by some of the faithful here and over on HB. In fact, am I misremembering or did you have some not-so-favorable things to say about Fisher and Deano because of their beliefs?

Can't really say if Phillips is like that, but I would not be surprised, to tell you the truth.

I said religion has no place in a hockey dressing room and it doesnt, I'll stand by that forever.

The arguement was trading Fisher over Spezza, and there is no way in hell anyone in that dressing room, aside from Phillips gives his time to other like he does. Being religous doesnt make you a good person, being religious makes you religious. A good person and a caring person is more than just belieiving in something. My grandfather is an absolute bible thumper, I wont be going into details, but unless you can buy your way into Heaven, he is going straight to hell, haha.

I didnt ask if Spezza would spend his time at CHEO, because all those guys do at some point, and good for them, not that they shouldnt be, but they do. I'm talking about the mid night visits after a loss, or just going to see a kid and making him smile for no reason other than to help a sick kid improve his day a bit. Thats what Fisher and Phillips are all about in Ottawa, and there is no way in hell that should be taken out of the community.

The original post was, trade Fisher over Spezza, this is why I would not trade Fisher over Spezza for any reason unless Fisher wanted out. No one can replace Fisher off the ice, Spezza or otherwise.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Where did I say n e thing about Spezza off the ice there? I was saying what Fisher does off the ice is exactly what this team, city, and the fans need. Spezza can do what he wants, but there is no way in hell he would ever turn into a Mike Fisher or a Chris Phlilips off the ice, those 2 are special people who really care about the city of Ottawa and the people in it.

In no way was that a knock towards Spezza, it was a high compliment to Fisher and the defense of why the Sens should not be trading a heart and soul guy, on and off the ice.

Well, you specifically asked (rhetorically) if Spezza would spend time at CHEO. You are calling him out on what (you think) he doesn't do off the ice. That's all. Clear now?

As for Fisher, I'm sure a lot of what he does has to do with his upbringing as a Christian -- and this was not exactly put in the best light by some of the faithful here and over on HB. In fact, am I misremembering or did you have some not-so-favorable things to say about Fisher and Deano because of their beliefs?

Can't really say if Phillips is like that, but I would not be surprised, to tell you the truth.

I said religion has no place in a hockey dressing room and it doesnt, I'll stand by that forever.

The arguement was trading Fisher over Spezza, and there is no way in hell anyone in that dressing room, aside from Phillips gives his time to other like he does. Being religous doesnt make you a good person, being religious makes you religious. A good person and a caring person is more than just belieiving in something. My grandfather is an absolute bible thumper, I wont be going into details, but unless you can buy your way into Heaven, he is going straight to hell, haha.

I didnt ask if Spezza would spend his time at CHEO, because all those guys do at some point, and good for them, not that they shouldnt be, but they do. I'm talking about the mid night visits after a loss, or just going to see a kid and making him smile for no reason other than to help a sick kid improve his day a bit. Thats what Fisher and Phillips are all about in Ottawa, and there is no way in hell that should be taken out of the community.

The original post was, trade Fisher over Spezza, this is why I would not trade Fisher over Spezza for any reason unless Fisher wanted out. No one can replace Fisher off the ice, Spezza or otherwise.

To further go on about Fisher and his value in the community, and this is horrible that I don't remember his name, but that poor little boy that Fisher and Phillips both started visiting in the CHEO I believe, I think his name was Elgin now that I think about it. Fisher was visiting this guy before the whole team did, and I think the day after Ottawa won the title or day of, Mike was talking to Elgin on the phone before he passed on, telling Elgin he was going to win the cup for him. That's a class character right there.

But he makes 4.2 million and doesnt produce as much as some other guys, we should trade him. Forget how valuable he is in the playoffs too and the kind of energy and grit he brings on top of some skill...

Fisher is the future captain of this team still, and hopefully he is a Sen for a long time.

Please re-read my post *carefully*. I talked about Fisher's upbringing as a Christian, not simply the fact that he says he is.

Being brought up a Christain doesnt make you anything but a Christain.

Elgin Alexander Fraser.

Neely4Life wrote:Being brought up a Christain doesnt make you anything but a Christain.

Hmm, interesting take. But completely fallacious. Being brough up in a Christian home probably means you can recall all those Sundayschool stories. Being a Christian is a personal choice. And, yes, it is more likely if you are brought up as such, but just because my parents vote Liberal doesn't mean that I will. Although it probably greatly influenced me when I was young and foolish

I think it's time for one of these:

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Being brought up a Christain doesnt make you anything but a Christain.

Hmm, interesting take. But completely fallacious. Being brough up in a Christian home probably means you can recall all those Sundayschool stories. Being a Christian is a personal choice. And, yes, it is more likely if you are brought up as such, but just because my parents vote Liberal doesn't mean that I will. Although it probably greatly influenced me when I was young and foolish

Buddy, I'm from the most religous famly ever, it doesnt mean anything. Again, Im not going into details, but being brought up Christain does not change the kind of person someone is.

Saying it is completly wrong... are you kidding me. I went to friggin Sunday school and it doesnt mean jack unless you actually care and put others before yourself.

I'm not getting into a religious debate, but being religous and raised in a religous family does not make you a good person. If you think it does, I'll send you a few pics of my father's scares to prove it.

wprager wrote:Elgin Alexander Fraser.

that's the little miracle right there, really sad what that little guy had to go through in 3 years and I have never had to suffer anything in 29. here's hoping little Elgin is looking down on his team from up above.

Neely4Life wrote:Buddy, I'm from the most religous famly ever, it doesnt mean anything. Again, Im not going into details, but being brought up Christain does not change the kind of person someone is.

Saying it is completly wrong... are you kidding me. I went to friggin Sunday school and it doesnt mean jack unless you actually care and put others before yourself.

I'm not getting into a religious debate, but being religous and raised in a religous family does not make you a good person. If you think it does, I'll send you a few pics of my father's scares to prove it.

All he was saying is that being brought up in a christian family does not guarantee that one ends up a christian. That's a choice a person makes for him/herself.

I'm curious to know what you all think Bryan Murray's going to do to address the real issues on this team.

Objectively, 4th to 7th to 12th in the East in successive years isn't a 'speed bump'.

A thirteen point gap to 10th place is not 'a few tweaks' away from a playoff spot. Those ten teams are not going to magically get worse next year.

Getting Leclaire can be a very important step, and signing Kuba brings some stability to the defense corps. But what about balanced offense, and the elusive 'team toughness' (psychological as well as physical)?

There are some talented kids in the system, but realistically, how ready are they to move up?

Who should be their top draft pick, and can that player make an impact immediately?

Comrie isn't signed, and nice words about Ottawa aside, he can probably get between 3 or 4MM as a UFA on a one year deal from any number of teams. What happens if he takes a hike?

If the numbers are accurate, Murray won't have that much money to play with UFA-wise, as marquee players now cost $6MM/year.

He's already said he may have to trade a 'big contract'. Who? And who can he realistically hope to obtain in return?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take a look at my post two pages back, from 9:30 this morning. I'm not suggesting it's realistic, but you can make room for $7-8M without moving any of the big three (or four).

Specifically regarding Comrie, as much as I like him I don't like having many players his size in the lineup. And Shannon would be a lot cheaper (he's an RFA). Regin replaces Vermette. Will we take a dip in production from last year? Absolutely. But it won't be any worse than this year, and if we can get a decent puck mover then all of our lines get better. Also, if Leclaire stays healthy the team will have much higher confidence in their goaltending, which will have a huge positive effect on the offensive side of the ledger. And even if it's not Leclaire, seriously, if Auld started the season instead of Gerber it would have been a different story.

As far as toughness goes, we need to resign Neil. With Neil, Ruutu, Donovan, Phillips, Vochenkov, Smith, Fisher, Alfie in the lineup we've got enough toighness.