The Sens and What IFs

Cronie wrote:he doesn't do that consistently though SF (Spezza backchecking).

Maybe it's as simple as Spezza realizing and figuring out the math that he is the ONLY HUGE contract with no NTC yet; herego, it's quite simple: Dos Vydanya Spezza.
Because the last 2-3 games, Spezza has been playing a certain edge I haven't seen from him since....since...well, EVER!!

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Didnt say that, but Spezza is a problem here and even if they dont sign J Bo, he is on his way out.

100% you need to trade Spezza before taking a shot at him as a UFA, but hey, I guess Murray's words are not enough to convince people. Its Spezza or Heatley out the door, and unless Heatley has asked for a trade, its Spezza out the door.

Again, Vermette's words leaving Ottawa is exactly what everyone who has left this team has said... and who is left? Weather people want to believe it or not, or just choose to ignore it, thats fine, but Spezza is the problem in Ottawa with a sub-par defense.

Enlighten me. What exact words did he say that tells you there's cancer in that room, and who else has said the same?

From what I know Vermette said that he really hated leaving, because they are all great guys and he lvoed playing with them. At the same time he stated the obvious, that this group did not perform to reasonable expctations, abd that there's something wrong. That "something" could be goaltending, coaching, drinking water or, yes, chemistry. "Chemistry" is that great undefinable quantity which has this nasty habit of turning on or off (remember the chemistry when our three top centres went down? instant on). Spezza getting into a fight with Phaneuf to come to Heatley's defense -- that could flip the switch just as easily. Reading Vermette's comments could be another switch-flipper. You just don't know.

But, sorry or the rant, let's get back on topic. Who else said this when leaving?

wprager wrote:

asq2 wrote:Regin's got potential, but he's years away from becoming a #2 centre, let alone a number 1.

He's still got a lot of muscle to add and a lot to learn. It's promising, though. He's certainly a guy I'd keep a hold of.

He's 6'1" and 185 lbs. Zetterberg is 5'11" and 195 lbs. It's entirely within the realm of possibilities for Regin to add 10 lbs this summer. A stretch goal could be 15-20. Since he's an inch taller than Zetterberg he'd need to be 3-5 lbs heavier to be of comparable proportions, so 15 lbs would put him in that category. Now, if he gains 15 lbs without losing any foot speed (adding speed would be even better) then I think he will definitely challenge for the #2 centre position (Mike to wing or Nashville).

Personally, I think moving Fisher is a much safer bet than moving Spezza. Fisher, as a second line centre, is much easier to replace with Regin than Spezza would be by promoting Fisher to the top line or hoping that Heatley gels with Cogliano or some-such.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

asq2 wrote:Regin's got potential, but he's years away from becoming a #2 centre, let alone a number 1.

He's still got a lot of muscle to add and a lot to learn. It's promising, though. He's certainly a guy I'd keep a hold of.

He's 6'1" and 185 lbs. Zetterberg is 5'11" and 195 lbs. It's entirely within the realm of possibilities for Regin to add 10 lbs this summer. A stretch goal could be 15-20. Since he's an inch taller than Zetterberg he'd need to be 3-5 lbs heavier to be of comparable proportions, so 15 lbs would put him in that category. Now, if he gains 15 lbs without losing any foot speed (adding speed would be even better) then I think he will definitely challenge for the #2 centre position (Mike to wing or Nashville).

Personally, I think moving Fisher is a much safer bet than moving Spezza. Fisher, as a second line centre, is much easier to replace with Regin than Spezza would be by promoting Fisher to the top line or hoping that Heatley gels with Cogliano or some-such.

Oh, is Spezza going to be making those mid night trips to CHEO? Is he going to be taking tons of his time and giving it to those who need it. Doubtful. Fisher is exactly what the Sens need and there is no reason for him to go. There is a lot more to being a professional athelte than collecting the paychecks for playing a game.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

asq2 wrote:Regin's got potential, but he's years away from becoming a #2 centre, let alone a number 1.

He's still got a lot of muscle to add and a lot to learn. It's promising, though. He's certainly a guy I'd keep a hold of.

He's 6'1" and 185 lbs. Zetterberg is 5'11" and 195 lbs. It's entirely within the realm of possibilities for Regin to add 10 lbs this summer. A stretch goal could be 15-20. Since he's an inch taller than Zetterberg he'd need to be 3-5 lbs heavier to be of comparable proportions, so 15 lbs would put him in that category. Now, if he gains 15 lbs without losing any foot speed (adding speed would be even better) then I think he will definitely challenge for the #2 centre position (Mike to wing or Nashville).

Personally, I think moving Fisher is a much safer bet than moving Spezza. Fisher, as a second line centre, is much easier to replace with Regin than Spezza would be by promoting Fisher to the top line or hoping that Heatley gels with Cogliano or some-such.

Oh, is Spezza going to be making those mid night trips to CHEO? Is he going to be taking tons of his time and giving it to those who need it. Doubtful. Fisher is exactly what the Sens need and there is no reason for him to go. There is a lot more to being a professional athelte than collecting the paychecks for playing a game.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Didnt say that, but Spezza is a problem here and even if they dont sign J Bo, he is on his way out.

100% you need to trade Spezza before taking a shot at him as a UFA, but hey, I guess Murray's words are not enough to convince people. Its Spezza or Heatley out the door, and unless Heatley has asked for a trade, its Spezza out the door.

Again, Vermette's words leaving Ottawa is exactly what everyone who has left this team has said... and who is left? Weather people want to believe it or not, or just choose to ignore it, thats fine, but Spezza is the problem in Ottawa with a sub-par defense.

Enlighten me. What exact words did he say that tells you there's cancer in that room, and who else has said the same?

From what I know Vermette said that he really hated leaving, because they are all great guys and he lvoed playing with them. At the same time he stated the obvious, that this group did not perform to reasonable expctations, abd that there's something wrong. That "something" could be goaltending, coaching, drinking water or, yes, chemistry. "Chemistry" is that great undefinable quantity which has this nasty habit of turning on or off (remember the chemistry when our three top centres went down? instant on). Spezza getting into a fight with Phaneuf to come to Heatley's defense -- that could flip the switch just as easily. Reading Vermette's comments could be another switch-flipper. You just don't know.

But, sorry or the rant, let's get back on topic. Who else said this when leaving?

" It's quite sad to leave the guys, when you grow up as a player in an organization, you make a lot of friends. But I know we didnt have the beginning of the season we expected, and management need to improve the team. But I am not sure if the team is out of the flunk. At the end of the day, hockey is a team sport, and to win, you need some chemistry"

TeamRenzo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

asq2 wrote:Regin's got potential, but he's years away from becoming a #2 centre, let alone a number 1.

He's still got a lot of muscle to add and a lot to learn. It's promising, though. He's certainly a guy I'd keep a hold of.

He's 6'1" and 185 lbs. Zetterberg is 5'11" and 195 lbs. It's entirely within the realm of possibilities for Regin to add 10 lbs this summer. A stretch goal could be 15-20. Since he's an inch taller than Zetterberg he'd need to be 3-5 lbs heavier to be of comparable proportions, so 15 lbs would put him in that category. Now, if he gains 15 lbs without losing any foot speed (adding speed would be even better) then I think he will definitely challenge for the #2 centre position (Mike to wing or Nashville).

Personally, I think moving Fisher is a much safer bet than moving Spezza. Fisher, as a second line centre, is much easier to replace with Regin than Spezza would be by promoting Fisher to the top line or hoping that Heatley gels with Cogliano or some-such.

Oh, is Spezza going to be making those mid night trips to CHEO? Is he going to be taking tons of his time and giving it to those who need it. Doubtful. Fisher is exactly what the Sens need and there is no reason for him to go. There is a lot more to being a professional athelte than collecting the paychecks for playing a game.

Now you are critisizing Spezza for what he does off the ice?

How do you know how Spezza spends his time or money?

Did he steal you r g/f at some point?

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Look, I don't know what the answer is here but I have to question Bouwmeester's rationale if he's willing to sign here on a Sens team sans one of it's most important offensive pieces.

Why would he?

If Cogliano comes in between Heatley and Alfi, are you telling me he can match the production Spezza has put out this year? You can put a monkey in there and he will get 60 points playing with those 2.

I think Spezza is a product of those 2, especially Alfi. If you get Cogliano and a 1st back for Spezza (as an example) you have a guy you can put up in the number 1 spot in the middle. He might not be a number 1 center yet, but he def has the potential to be, and thats what we are waiting on for Spezza, the potential he has. Add J Bo to that, the Sens are so much better we may be back in the finals in short order.

wprager wrote:I know what Vermette said, I'm asking you about the other players you mentioned. Basically, you said that everyone who leaves here says the same thing. While that may be true, I don't think that repeated theme has anything to do with locker-room cancer.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Didnt say that, but Spezza is a problem here and even if they dont sign J Bo, he is on his way out.

100% you need to trade Spezza before taking a shot at him as a UFA, but hey, I guess Murray's words are not enough to convince people. Its Spezza or Heatley out the door, and unless Heatley has asked for a trade, its Spezza out the door.

Again, Vermette's words leaving Ottawa is exactly what everyone who has left this team has said... and who is left? Weather people want to believe it or not, or just choose to ignore it, thats fine, but Spezza is the problem in Ottawa with a sub-par defense.

Enlighten me. What exact words did he say that tells you there's cancer in that room, and who else has said the same?

From what I know Vermette said that he really hated leaving, because they are all great guys and he lvoed playing with them. At the same time he stated the obvious, that this group did not perform to reasonable expctations, abd that there's something wrong. That "something" could be goaltending, coaching, drinking water or, yes, chemistry. "Chemistry" is that great undefinable quantity which has this nasty habit of turning on or off (remember the chemistry when our three top centres went down? instant on). Spezza getting into a fight with Phaneuf to come to Heatley's defense -- that could flip the switch just as easily. Reading Vermette's comments could be another switch-flipper. You just don't know.

But, sorry or the rant, let's get back on topic. Who else said this when leaving?

" It's quite sad to leave the guys, when you grow up as a player in an organization, you make a lot of friends. But I know we didnt have the beginning of the season we expected, and management need to improve the team. But I am not sure if the team is out of the flunk. At the end of the day, hockey is a team sport, and to win, you need some chemistry"

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

asq2 wrote:Regin's got potential, but he's years away from becoming a #2 centre, let alone a number 1.

He's still got a lot of muscle to add and a lot to learn. It's promising, though. He's certainly a guy I'd keep a hold of.

He's 6'1" and 185 lbs. Zetterberg is 5'11" and 195 lbs. It's entirely within the realm of possibilities for Regin to add 10 lbs this summer. A stretch goal could be 15-20. Since he's an inch taller than Zetterberg he'd need to be 3-5 lbs heavier to be of comparable proportions, so 15 lbs would put him in that category. Now, if he gains 15 lbs without losing any foot speed (adding speed would be even better) then I think he will definitely challenge for the #2 centre position (Mike to wing or Nashville).

Personally, I think moving Fisher is a much safer bet than moving Spezza. Fisher, as a second line centre, is much easier to replace with Regin than Spezza would be by promoting Fisher to the top line or hoping that Heatley gels with Cogliano or some-such.

Oh, is Spezza going to be making those mid night trips to CHEO? Is he going to be taking tons of his time and giving it to those who need it. Doubtful. Fisher is exactly what the Sens need and there is no reason for him to go. There is a lot more to being a professional athelte than collecting the paychecks for playing a game.

Phoenix30 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Look, I don't know what the answer is here but I have to question Bouwmeester's rationale if he's willing to sign here on a Sens team sans one of it's most important offensive pieces.

Why would he?

If Cogliano comes in between Heatley and Alfi, are you telling me he can match the production Spezza has put out this year? You can put a monkey in there and he will get 60 points playing with those 2.

I think Spezza is a product of those 2, especially Alfi. If you get Cogliano and a 1st back for Spezza (as an example) you have a guy you can put up in the number 1 spot in the middle. He might not be a number 1 center yet, but he def has the potential to be, and thats what we are waiting on for Spezza, the potential he has. Add J Bo to that, the Sens are so much better we may be back in the finals in short order.

Just to put a damper on Cogs. He can't win a faceoff if his life depended on it. Its widely talked about here in Edmonton that he probably wont get much better at it either. He has all the other tools to be a great player though but I don't think he will be a true #1 center until he can start winning more faceoffs.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:I know what Vermette said, I'm asking you about the other players you mentioned. Basically, you said that everyone who leaves here says the same thing. While that may be true, I don't think that repeated theme has anything to do with locker-room cancer.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Didnt say that, but Spezza is a problem here and even if they dont sign J Bo, he is on his way out.

100% you need to trade Spezza before taking a shot at him as a UFA, but hey, I guess Murray's words are not enough to convince people. Its Spezza or Heatley out the door, and unless Heatley has asked for a trade, its Spezza out the door.

Again, Vermette's words leaving Ottawa is exactly what everyone who has left this team has said... and who is left? Weather people want to believe it or not, or just choose to ignore it, thats fine, but Spezza is the problem in Ottawa with a sub-par defense.

Enlighten me. What exact words did he say that tells you there's cancer in that room, and who else has said the same?

From what I know Vermette said that he really hated leaving, because they are all great guys and he lvoed playing with them. At the same time he stated the obvious, that this group did not perform to reasonable expctations, abd that there's something wrong. That "something" could be goaltending, coaching, drinking water or, yes, chemistry. "Chemistry" is that great undefinable quantity which has this nasty habit of turning on or off (remember the chemistry when our three top centres went down? instant on). Spezza getting into a fight with Phaneuf to come to Heatley's defense -- that could flip the switch just as easily. Reading Vermette's comments could be another switch-flipper. You just don't know.

But, sorry or the rant, let's get back on topic. Who else said this when leaving?

" It's quite sad to leave the guys, when you grow up as a player in an organization, you make a lot of friends. But I know we didnt have the beginning of the season we expected, and management need to improve the team. But I am not sure if the team is out of the flunk. At the end of the day, hockey is a team sport, and to win, you need some chemistry"

Commodore said it as well.

Neely4Life wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Look, I don't know what the answer is here but I have to question Bouwmeester's rationale if he's willing to sign here on a Sens team sans one of it's most important offensive pieces.

Why would he?

If Cogliano comes in between Heatley and Alfi, are you telling me he can match the production Spezza has put out this year? You can put a monkey in there and he will get 60 points playing with those 2.

I think Spezza is a product of those 2, especially Alfi. If you get Cogliano and a 1st back for Spezza (as an example) you have a guy you can put up in the number 1 spot in the middle. He might not be a number 1 center yet, but he def has the potential to be, and thats what we are waiting on for Spezza, the potential he has. Add J Bo to that, the Sens are so much better we may be back in the finals in short order.

Just to put a damper on Cogs. He can't win a faceoff if his life depended on it. Its widely talked about here in Edmonton that he probably wont get much better at it either. He has all the other tools to be a great player though but I don't think he will be a true #1 center until he can start winning more faceoffs.

I've heard that knock on him as well, but he would be the guy I would demand back if Spezza was going the other way. You can work on faceoffs though, that is defently an aquired skill. Spezza was awful on the draw before, he is def a better faceoff guy than he was before, way better.

marakh wrote:A few things, Prags

- If you look at the cap for 10/11, you will see that your plan needs a few tweaks here and there.

- Most of the goals Heatley scored in 06/07 were without Spezza. And he was excellent in Atlanta too.

- When I look at Spezza's and Heatley's games, it seems to me that they perform well when they have lucky bounces from time to time (like last night's first goal). It gives them motivation. But never, practically never have I seen them giving 100% from the 1st shift to the last.

Neely4Life wrote:
Where did I say n e thing about Spezza off the ice there? I was saying what Fisher does off the ice is exactly what this team, city, and the fans need. Spezza can do what he wants, but there is no way in hell he would ever turn into a Mike Fisher or a Chris Phlilips off the ice, those 2 are special people who really care about the city of Ottawa and the people in it.

In no way was that a knock towards Spezza, it was a high compliment to Fisher and the defense of why the Sens should not be trading a heart and soul guy, on and off the ice.