The Sens and What IFs

Neely4Life wrote:Buddy, I'm from the most religous famly ever, it doesnt mean anything. Again, Im not going into details, but being brought up Christain does not change the kind of person someone is.

Saying it is completly wrong... are you kidding me. I went to friggin Sunday school and it doesnt mean jack unless you actually care and put others before yourself.

I'm not getting into a religious debate, but being religous and raised in a religous family does not make you a good person. If you think it does, I'll send you a few pics of my father's scares to prove it.

All he was saying is that being brought up in a christian family does not guarantee that one ends up a christian. That's a choice a person makes for him/herself.

I'm curious to know what you all think Bryan Murray's going to do to address the real issues on this team.

Objectively, 4th to 7th to 12th in the East in successive years isn't a 'speed bump'.

A thirteen point gap to 10th place is not 'a few tweaks' away from a playoff spot. Those ten teams are not going to magically get worse next year.

Getting Leclaire can be a very important step, and signing Kuba brings some stability to the defense corps. But what about balanced offense, and the elusive 'team toughness' (psychological as well as physical)?

There are some talented kids in the system, but realistically, how ready are they to move up?

Who should be their top draft pick, and can that player make an impact immediately?

Comrie isn't signed, and nice words about Ottawa aside, he can probably get between 3 or 4MM as a UFA on a one year deal from any number of teams. What happens if he takes a hike?

If the numbers are accurate, Murray won't have that much money to play with UFA-wise, as marquee players now cost $6MM/year.

He's already said he may have to trade a 'big contract'. Who? And who can he realistically hope to obtain in return?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take a look at my post two pages back, from 9:30 this morning. I'm not suggesting it's realistic, but you can make room for $7-8M without moving any of the big three (or four).

Specifically regarding Comrie, as much as I like him I don't like having many players his size in the lineup. And Shannon would be a lot cheaper (he's an RFA). Regin replaces Vermette. Will we take a dip in production from last year? Absolutely. But it won't be any worse than this year, and if we can get a decent puck mover then all of our lines get better. Also, if Leclaire stays healthy the team will have much higher confidence in their goaltending, which will have a huge positive effect on the offensive side of the ledger. And even if it's not Leclaire, seriously, if Auld started the season instead of Gerber it would have been a different story.

As far as toughness goes, we need to resign Neil. With Neil, Ruutu, Donovan, Phillips, Vochenkov, Smith, Fisher, Alfie in the lineup we've got enough toighness.

davetherave wrote:I'm curious to know what you all think Bryan Murray's going to do to address the real issues on this team.

Objectively, 4th to 7th to 12th in the East in successive years isn't a 'speed bump'.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Obviously, there are no quick fixes. Until Murray restocks Bingo with some talented youth (that will eventually break out into the NHL on the cheap and make an impact) the trend will continue. I feel Murray's on the right path to make this team competitive. I believe as a team we've bottomed out and if the right draft picks are made the sooner they will be considered contenders again. I don't think a deal here or a signing there will mean all that much (other than acquiring Leclaire who hopefully turns into a true #1 and possibly getting a stud D man if possible) until they restock their youth. The core is signed.They just need an infusion of cheap talented youth to back them up. This can't be addressed over just one draft or be fixed through the UFA market over the summer. Although, if done right they will become much more competitive and entertaining. The ride back to the top should be fun.

I think the Sens will be competitive next year. The main difference between this team and the one that went to the Finals two years ago is the overhauled defence and a new goalie. As much as I liked Emery, Leclaire should be (by all accounts) an upgrade. And it won't take J-Bo to replace Corvo.

True, other teams aren't exactly standing still, but neither are we. Foligno, Shannon, Campoli, Elliott, Regin, Bass, Winchester. Those are some decent prospects all ready to make a contribution. And there's more where those came from: Karlsson (x2), O'Brien, Wiercioch, Hedman or whoever we get at the draft, Zubov, Peterson.

I think we are competitive next year. We'll make the playoffs and then who knows what happens. Two years from now we will become a force to be reconed with.

Thanks everybody, interesting comments.

One of the things that jumps out looking at the Senators' depth chart is the absence of big skilled forwards like Getzlaf, Clowe, Kesler for example.

Everybody says Foligno, but as much as I respect Nick's heart, he's not where the others cited are, in terms of skill.

Comrie is decent, but not in the Clowe/Getzlaf/Kesler class.

Depth at the forward position was an evident weakness at the beginning of the 2008/9 season. Looking at that depth chart right now, it appears Ottawa still needs to put together three solid forward lines.

IMHO Murray missed out last UFA season when he didn't bring in RJ Umberger.

Maybe Bass develops into something, but Winchester from what I have seen doesn't have the skillset.

Regin looks like a good kid, need to see more of him to know what he has.

If Clouston is allowed to give more of the Bingo boys (Zubov, Mattias Karlsson?) some ice from now until seasons' end it might be the best way to find out what to expect in 09/10.

Petersson and Erik Karlsson looked very good in the WJC but I wonder how long it will be before they are NHL-ready. Likewise for the rest. Some pretty strong kids come out of the WHL but I'm not sure how many the Sens have in their pipeline.

If Ottawa can snag an instant winner in the draft, certainly that helps. I keep hearing everyone talk about MSP as the second coming. Is Jared Cowan the next Zdeno Chara, and how does his knee injury affect his future? Is Brayden Schenn as NHL-ready as his brother? There's a kid named Mattias Lindstrom who scouts say is a Holmstrom-type...a type the Sens could certainly use.

Finally, what kind of team will the Senators be going forward, i.e. a speed/skill team, or size/shutdown team. or some kind of hybrid?

This year, we saw too many individuals playing their own game, and not enough synchronized collective effort.

Fixing that will be, one expects, Job One for the Senators' coaching staff--whoever they might be--next year.

The sad part is that both Heatley and Spezza have the size/skill/potential to be the power forward types - transformation of one or both into just that would make our first line(s) lethal.

Acrobat wrote:The sad part is that both Heatley and Spezza have the size/skill/potential to be the power forward types - transformation of one or both into just that would make our first line(s) lethal.

Dany and Jason are what they are...IMHO unless they fundamentally change how they play as 'team guys', rather than as skilled individuals.

Clowe, Getzlaf and Kesler--just to use them as examples, may not have the specific skills of a Heatley or Spezza, but they execute as part of a team's strategic and tactical approach.

Look at the difference Kunitz has made in Pittsburgh vs for example Satan.

These types of players--call them '2nd tier' if you like--are what make your 'superstars' more productive, and lift your team overall.

As it seems nowadays teams need at least three lines who can score, at least two or even three of these 'mid tier' guys make up part of that mix.

Mike Fisher might have that potential; so far though, he seems not to have found consistency in his game.

I definitely see major improvements since the Clouston area, and if you analyze thelast game vs Edmonton, IMO they couldnt handle the 4 lines-rolling of the Senators. Shannon looks so good out there, you wonder where this kid has been the last few years. I also like the ice time repartition and it's at games like theses that the Big 3 feel quite comfortable because they don't feel that everything is on their shoulders. I think Comrie, Shannon and Regin have helped this club big time. Who knows, if Murray adds another top 6 (as he said), with LEclaire and may be a few prospects, and a good ending of the season, I can totally see this team in the playoffs next year.

marakh wrote:I definitely see major improvements since the Clouston area, and if you analyze thelast game vs Edmonton, IMO they couldnt handle the 4 lines-rolling of the Senators. Shannon looks so good out there, you wonder where this kid has been the last few years. I also like the ice time repartition and it's at games like theses that the Big 3 feel quite comfortable because they don't feel that everything is on their shoulders. I think Comrie, Shannon and Regin have helped this club big time. Who knows, if Murray adds another top 6 (as he said), with LEclaire and may be a few prospects, and a good ending of the season, I can totally see this team in the playoffs next year.

Lots of 'ifs' there.

I know, but very probable ifs.

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good ending to the season'?

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good end to the season'?

Giving the effort every night, with motivation, even if they don't win many games. That game against Calgary was a nice example.
I would really love Elliott to shine and get confidence back too. Give him as many game as possible, something like 70%. And maybe call a few Bingo guys to see what's in there that could help next year, that could help Murray move some useless contracts (...) in the summer.

marakh wrote:

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good end to the season'?

Giving the effort every night, with motivation, even if they don't win many games. That game against Calgary was a nice example.
I would really love Elliott to shine and get confidence back too. Give him as many game as possible, something like 70%. And maybe call a few Bingo guys to see what's in there that could help next year, that could help Murray move some useless contracts (...) in the summer.

Then you have to be happy with the win tonight...

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good ending to the season'?

19 regulation losses. What good can come out of catching teams like Colorado, LA etc?

I could care less about a strong finish to the season. I think there may be more changes coming in the off-season, so that alone should energize whomever is here to start next season.

hemlock wrote:

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good ending to the season'?

19 regulation losses. What good can come out of catching teams like Colorado, LA etc?

I could care less about a strong finish to the season. I think there may be more changes coming in the off-season, so that alone should energize whomever is here to start next season.

Whatever happened to The Power of Positive Thinking?

Seriously, the last 18 is an audition for Clouston and the Kidz.

The more young talent the Sens can deploy next year, the easier it is for The Shawville Shaman to shuffle off some higher-priced vets.

Nicky, Ryan, Brian, Brendan and Pete would rather fly first class than take the bus. Even Jumpin' Jesse was trying to make his case last night to replace Chris Neil.

And don't forget Captain Cory wants a gig next year. They've already filled his chair at the Bingo table. Plus he's probably tired of bunking down at the Comfort Inn.

Frankly, I'd rather watch hungry youngsters who scrap for every puck than mushy millionaires showing off.

8)

davetherave wrote:

hemlock wrote:

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:I know, but very probable ifs.

With 19 games left, what would you consider to be 'a good ending to the season'?

19 regulation losses. What good can come out of catching teams like Colorado, LA etc?

I could care less about a strong finish to the season. I think there may be more changes coming in the off-season, so that alone should energize whomever is here to start next season.

Whatever happened to The Power of Positive Thinking?

Seriously, the last 18 is an audition for Clouston and the Kidz.

The more young talent the Sens can deploy next year, the easier it is for The Shawville Shaman to shuffle off some higher-priced vets.

Nicky, Ryan, Brian, Brendan and Pete would rather fly first class than take the bus. Even Jumpin' Jesse was trying to make his case last night to replace Chris Neil.

And don't forget Captain Cory wants a gig next year. They've already filled his chair at the Bingo table. Plus he's probably tired of bunking down at the Comfort Inn.

Frankly, I'd rather watch hungry youngsters who scrap for every puck than mushy millionaires showing off.

8)

am agreed on that one, which is why I love watching Q hockey around here in Moncton, those kids are exciting to watch, and it only gets better when you have it at the NHL level, I agree on Winchester, he was a man possessed last night. as a side note, if Ottawa wants to draft another goalie, they should be scouting the Wildcats, his name is Nicola Riopel, I don't believe he has been drafted by anybody, but he is having one hell of a season in the Q, below are his stats, but it also said he was invited to the Montreal Canadians development camp, does that mean he is property of them?

Season

GP

Min

GA

SO

GAA

W

L

T

Svs

Pct

2008-09

55

3247

109

5

2.01

40

14

0

1598

0.932

SF71, more on Nicola Riopel...

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/nicola_riopel

http://www.moncton-wildcats.com/en-ca/team/player.php?PLAYER_ID=229

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=91188