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GM Hockey » Ottawa Senators » GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Carolina Hurricanes - 7:00pm Nov. 7th, 2008

GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Carolina Hurricanes - 7:00pm Nov. 7th, 2008

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LethalLehner
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hemlock34 wrote:
Tukker wrote:
wprager wrote:Guys, go outside and have a smoke or something. Rake the leaves to work out some steam, please. For a while there it was like being back on HB. Disagree, if you must, but keep insults in the schoolyard, OK?
as long as sf56 isnt here, it will never be like HB. thankfully

Where will the comic relief come from without sf56?
it's not right to make fun of the mentally challenged...

Guest


Guest

Tukker wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Tukker wrote:
wprager wrote:Guys, go outside and have a smoke or something. Rake the leaves to work out some steam, please. For a while there it was like being back on HB. Disagree, if you must, but keep insults in the schoolyard, OK?
as long as sf56 isnt here, it will never be like HB. thankfully

Where will the comic relief come from without sf56?
it's not right to make fun of the mentally challenged...

That's the funny part about it though. I don't think he's actually mentally challenged, just completely out to lunch.

Guest


Guest

RobbyJ wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:Obviously not. The guy sounded like a moron from the very start of his paragraph.
can't argue there. Foligno is one of our most promising players. If only vermette played like Folgers.
Three things:
- I watch every single game; but w/e...your opinions mean sh*t..
- Vermette has only been with Spezza and Heatley for 3 games; while Foligno has been relegated to the 4th line for a reason. There was even an article in the Citizen about him on Friday. And nowhere in my comment did I claim that Foligno was expendable or that he wasn't a solid asset for this team. He will be a strong player and I like some things about his game, but recently he's been truly terrible and his TOI reflects it.
- I really don't know what to say to fans that think Phillips has been playing poorly in the past year. Its something I've heard before and invariably the fans making that claim know d*ck about judging defensive defensemen. Nothing could possibly prove more how little you know about properly watching and evaluating hockey than that. Phillips is the best defender on this team, whether you realize it or not.

Haha well 1, you could not have possible watched every single game, because last weekend there was no coverage all, so thats not true either.

The reason you dont know what to say to fans that think that about Phillips is because he has been awful! He has not played even close to the guy that was being considered for Canada's Olympic team 2 years ago, he loses one on one battles down low a lot more then he wins them, and on top of that his decision making has been awful in his own zone.

Vermette has been on Spezza's line since the 3rd period of the game here againt Florida, so thats 7 games in a row now.

Everything you have basically said is ignorant, ill informed, and basically made up a bunch of BS to try and prove an argument that is basically impossible to win.

Also, the fact you would not give up Phillips to get the league leader in minutes and one of the top 5 best young D men in the league is laughable.

Neely4Life,

You're way off on you're assessment of Phillips. While he hasn't played great yet this year he is still our best defensive dman over the long haul (last night not withstanding). There are very few players I would give up Phillips to get, but in the case of Bouwmeister in exchange for Vermette and Phillips, it's a no brainer, pull the trigger.

Im not even saying he isnt our best D man, I personally think it is A Train, but that just my opinion. The guy came out and said that 1, Phillips "brings it every game" which he doesnt, he defently takes some nights off. Basically said that trading Phillips and Vermette for J Bo is moronic, when it would be the exact player we need to make the Sens a contender.

I like Phillips and think he is a solid D man, and I said he is signed to a good contract, but to not be realistic about his play and just turn away from poor play over the last year is wrong. If he plays like he did on Tues night against the Caps, then there are no issues, but there has been a substantial decline in his play since going to the finals in 07.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Neely4Life wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:I would be fine with that. Gives us a fresh face up front and a little more grit with some scoring. Maybe a guy like Stempniak would flourish with a strong support group around him instead of playing with career losers in St Louis.

Vermette should fit right in with that group though.

Be honest. Vermette curb stomped your grandmother right? :lol!:

Naw, she curb stomped him the weakling.

Guest


Guest

Neely4Life wrote:
cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:Obviously not. The guy sounded like a moron from the very start of his paragraph.
can't argue there. Foligno is one of our most promising players. If only vermette played like Folgers.
Three things:
- I watch every single game; but w/e...your opinions mean sh*t..
- Vermette has only been with Spezza and Heatley for 3 games; while Foligno has been relegated to the 4th line for a reason. There was even an article in the Citizen about him on Friday. And nowhere in my comment did I claim that Foligno was expendable or that he wasn't a solid asset for this team. He will be a strong player and I like some things about his game, but recently he's been truly terrible and his TOI reflects it.
- I really don't know what to say to fans that think Phillips has been playing poorly in the past year. Its something I've heard before and invariably the fans making that claim know d*ck about judging defensive defensemen. Nothing could possibly prove more how little you know about properly watching and evaluating hockey than that. Phillips is the best defender on this team, whether you realize it or not.

Haha well 1, you could not have possible watched every single game, because last weekend there was no coverage all, so thats not true either.

The reason you dont know what to say to fans that think that about Phillips is because he has been awful! He has not played even close to the guy that was being considered for Canada's Olympic team 2 years ago, he loses one on one battles down low a lot more then he wins them, and on top of that his decision making has been awful in his own zone.

Vermette has been on Spezza's line since the 3rd period of the game here againt Florida, so thats 7 games in a row now.

Everything you have basically said is ignorant, ill informed, and basically made up a bunch of BS to try and prove an argument that is basically impossible to win.

Also, the fact you would not give up Phillips to get the league leader in minutes and one of the top 5 best young D men in the league is laughable.
Look: Obviously I couldn't have seen a game that wasn't televised...you want to talk about ignorant, well there you go...

And, yeah, you're definitely right that Vermette has been on Spezza's wing since the Florida game...The Florida game played in Florida on Oct. 30th; not the one played here on the 22nd. So we're both wrong...he's been there for 4 games now (One of which I didn't see; hence my "3 games" mis-statement...)

I really shouldn't have gotten into the game of defending Phillips' play in 2008 because it really has been a shadow of the play he brought in 2007. Regardless, the key difference in his game now is person minding the crease.
2008 has been Gerber's year with this team and they've struggled consistently and we saw it again against Carolina -They are simply a different (worse) team with Gerber in net. It seems blatantly obvious to me and to many other fans that they have no trust in Gerber. If you don't think that a lack of trust in his goaltender can affect the play of a defenseman, then you need to reconsider it...

Believe me, I know who Jay Bouwmeester is. I know what he can do and what he could do for this team. The issue is about what he really costs. In a salary cap world, big money can only be handed out to so many players and having a 6M dollar J.Bo could easily f*ck us, if the salary cap goes down to 50-52M. I would be more than happy to have him here, but not at the expense of one of the longest serving members of this team - A player who could very well one day have his number retired in Ottawa.
He's locked in at a good price and he does bring it EVERY game...when he has someone reliable playing behind him...

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Guest

Can we just drop it? it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree, and you've resorted to insults, which pretty much proves its going no where.

Guest


Guest

Tukker wrote:Can we just drop it? it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree, and you've resorted to insults, which pretty much proves its going no where.

:lol!: Insults? Where?? You guys are the ones who called me a moron...and that was like 4 pages ago. roffle.

The illogic and hypocrisy on this site is astounding. Don't worry about dropping it; I'll be dropping out.
Peace.

Guest


Guest

cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:Can we just drop it? it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree, and you've resorted to insults, which pretty much proves its going no where.

:lol!: Insults? Where?? You guys are the ones who called me a moron...and that was like 4 pages ago. roffle.

The illogic and hypocrisy on this site is astounding. Don't worry about dropping it; I'll be dropping out.
Peace.
when I said you've, I wasn't referring simply to you...

Guest


Guest

Tukker wrote:
cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:Can we just drop it? it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree, and you've resorted to insults, which pretty much proves its going no where.

:lol!: Insults? Where?? You guys are the ones who called me a moron...and that was like 4 pages ago. roffle.

The illogic and hypocrisy on this site is astounding. Don't worry about dropping it; I'll be dropping out.
Peace.
when I said you've, I wasn't referring simply to you...
scratch What???

:lol!: ROFFLE. That is the most cowardly retread I've ever read :lol!: It is blatantly obvious that you were speaking directly to me. Too funny...

Guest


Guest

cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:
cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:Can we just drop it? it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree, and you've resorted to insults, which pretty much proves its going no where.

:lol!: Insults? Where?? You guys are the ones who called me a moron...and that was like 4 pages ago. roffle.

The illogic and hypocrisy on this site is astounding. Don't worry about dropping it; I'll be dropping out.
Peace.
when I said you've, I wasn't referring simply to you...
scratch What???

:lol!: ROFFLE. That is the most cowardly retread I've ever read :lol!: It is blatantly obvious that you were speaking directly to me. Too funny...
yes, I see how you would know what I meant better than I would. We(as in more than just the two of us) were debating about Phillip's play thus far, when you and Neely4life started throwing insults and getting personal.

Guest


Guest

What is ROFFLE?

Guest


Guest

hemlock34 wrote:What is ROFFLE?
it's ROTFL for illiterate people

Sens4thecup


Rookie
Rookie

Anyone read HB's post about Bouwmeester going to the Rangers? Now I don't necessarily believe in anything Eklund writes, but, I do believe that Florida may be in a panic mode if they loose another 2-3 games. Word is, that Martin is looking for a center. Would Vermette or Kelly and 1st round pick suffice?

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Guest

Sens4thecup wrote:Anyone read HB's post about Bouwmeester going to the Rangers? Now I don't necessarily believe in anything Eklund writes, but, I do believe that Florida may be in a panic mode if they loose another 2-3 games. Word is, that Martin is looking for a center. Would Vermette or Kelly and 1st round pick suffice?

It should, he wont be getting a whole lot back for J Bo, at least not equal value.

Martin is f'ed either way, he is going to want someone who can play in every situation and that fits Vermette to a T.

Guest


Guest

Sens4thecup wrote:Anyone read HB's post about Bouwmeester going to the Rangers? Now I don't necessarily believe in anything Eklund writes, but, I do believe that Florida may be in a panic mode if they loose another 2-3 games. Word is, that Martin is looking for a center. Would Vermette or Kelly and 1st round pick suffice?
we'd need to throw in a prospect and maybe a late pick.

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

Sens4thecup wrote:Anyone read HB's post about Bouwmeester going to the Rangers? Now I don't necessarily believe in anything Eklund writes, but, I do believe that Florida may be in a panic mode if they loose another 2-3 games. Word is, that Martin is looking for a center. Would Vermette or Kelly and 1st round pick suffice?

An interesting suggestion, I admit, but the cap figures don't quite work out:

FLA has $2.75 in cap space, J-Bo costs $4.875.

NYR has $285,00 in cap space, Prucha costs $1.6 mil and Dubinsky costs $633,333 (about $2.233 mil total).

NYR would have to make another move, like shipping out Mara ($1.95 mil) or Kalinin ($2.1 mil), to make this work.

After what they just did to Rismiller, I wouldn't be surprised to by any move NYR makes.

It would be a mistake on FLA's part, tho', I think. 1 month of good hockey from Dubinsky does not make him worth a franchise player. Not yet, anyway.

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rooneypoo wrote:
Sens4thecup wrote:Anyone read HB's post about Bouwmeester going to the Rangers? Now I don't necessarily believe in anything Eklund writes, but, I do believe that Florida may be in a panic mode if they loose another 2-3 games. Word is, that Martin is looking for a center. Would Vermette or Kelly and 1st round pick suffice?

An interesting suggestion, I admit, but the cap figures don't quite work out:

FLA has $2.75 in cap space, J-Bo costs $4.875.

NYR has $285,00 in cap space, Prucha costs $1.6 mil and Dubinsky costs $633,333 (about $2.233 mil total).

NYR would have to make another move, like shipping out Mara ($1.95 mil) or Kalinin ($2.1 mil), to make this work.

After what they just did to Rismiller, I wouldn't be surprised to by any move NYR makes.

It would be a mistake on FLA's part, tho', I think. 1 month of good hockey from Dubinsky does not make him worth a franchise player. Not yet, anyway.

There is no way that Florida gets a player going back the other way that is better then Dubinsky. Dubinsky had a solid season last year and his ice time increased throughout the year. This is more of a continuation from the previous year for the guy.

FLR is screwed, they are dealing from a point beyond weakness. Ottawa has to put together a deal that will top everyone elses.

Acrobat

Acrobat
Veteran
Veteran

I'm not big on giving up either of the firsts, though - this draft is huge, and could set us up big-time for the next few years, especially if the cap drops. We're already committed to $23M in four forwards (or more? Alfie, Fisher, Heatley, Spezza) and still need to re-sign Volchenkov and Phillips in the next few years, likely representing another $8-9M. That only leaves potentially $20M or thereabouts for another 16 players, including goalies (Auld and Elliot will eat up another $2M of that.)

If J-Bo commands $7M per, then we have 7 players eating $39M (nine for $41.5, including Auld and Elliot - forget about an elite goalie). The rest will essentially have to be low-end UFA/RFA contracts or rookie contracts, which won't do good things for our competitiveness.

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