GAME DAY:Ottawa Senators @ New Jersey Devils - 7:00pm ET - Tue. Mar. 8, 2011

I've never said being a PPG is an indicator of how good he is. I have said that I think he is a PPG player and he has been for his career and has been in the playoffs. I also realize that during the last 3 regular seasons he hasn't hit that mark and only came close last regular season with a .95 PPG mark.

All I'm saying is I think he can achieve a PPG on a regular basis and still be an all around solid player and leader. Why is that so tough to accept.

He has been a PPG since he returned from injury. Maybe I think he can have both.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I've never said being a PPG is an indicator of how good he is. I have said that I think he is a PPG player and he has been for his career and has been in the playoffs. I also realize that during the last 3 regular seasons he hasn't hit that mark and only came close last regular season with a .95 PPG mark.

All I'm saying is I think he can achieve a PPG on a regular basis and still be an all around solid player and leader. Why is that so tough to accept.

He has been a PPG since he returned from injury. Maybe I think he can have both.

He's always a PPG player when he comes back mid season after an injury, isn't that an anual thing?

Anyways, he can probably hit the PPG mark once, maybe twice more in his career but it's going to be extremely tough playing the game he is playing right now to do that. You will see other players totals go up as a direct result of his lower offensive production which is absolutely better for the confidence of individuals and the team itself.

Players who kill 5 on 3's, players who work hard in the defensive zone, and players who are out there leading every night do not put up a PPG in today's NHL unless your name is Crosby. Richards, Toews, Zetterberg, even a guy like Datsyuk who I believe is the a top 2 player in The NHL doesn't do it every year. It takes a ton out of you playing those mins and it will take it's toll on Spezza.

I'll be happy if the Mississauga Miracle nick name catches on. Full credit to SSF for coming up with that one. Special mention to rooneypoo for providing the inspiration.

I have no problem with Spezza not hitting a PPG ever again I still think he has it in him to do it though. I do agree that if he's leaned on next season, and in the future, as much as he is this season that it will start to take it's toll much like it has with The Alfie.

Spezza could easily return to PPG status if he's healthy next year.

Historically I am not sure how many points Spezza got on the PP but our PP being terrible is a factor. Gonchar gets a lot of his points on the PP so this has impacted him too.

Should be better with Clouston gone.

marakh wrote:Spezza is a treat to watch these days

That was by far his best game in the last two weeks. No hanging out waiting for a pass at the other team's blueline last night, at all.

Love seeing him do a good job on the 5-on-3s, especially.

wprager wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
People who play the stats game, well, that one falls on its face. Spezza's totals have been on the decline for 4 years, and he hasn't hit a PPG pace in any of those years. Do with that what you will.

I occasionally say incautious things about Spezza when provoked -- the Tin Man comments, for instance, date back to people talking about him as the 'obvious successor' to Alfie some 5-6 months ago. Or people talking about him as one of the top 5 or 10 centres in the game, or an elite player, or a PPG player (he hasn't been for 4 years).

It's interesting that you bring up people who play the stats game in a post where you repeatedly state how Spezza hasn't been a PPG player for 4 years.

OK, here goes.

2007-08: 76 34-58-92 -- 92 points in 76 games, certainly PPG
2008-09: 82 32-41-73
2009-10: 60 23-34-57
2010-11: 46 12-22-34

While it certainly appears that he's not going to hit the PPG pace this year, this will be the *third* year in a row. One of those years he hit 57 in a 60 game season.

Oops, yep, you're right. I got my two basics mixed up there -- i.e., that Spezza's point totals have been on a steady decline for 4 seasons, and that he hasn't hit a PPG pace in 3 seasons. Brain fart on my part.

rooneypoo wrote:

marakh wrote:Spezza is a treat to watch these days

That was by far his best game in the last two weeks. No hanging out waiting for a pass at the other team's blueline last night, at all.

Love seeing him do a good job on the 5-on-3s, especially.

The 5-on-3 play of Spezza last night was commendable. I am liking his game more and more. Also, he's a hunk.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I don't really care if he's a PPG or .95PPG or if he continues to be a PPG during the playoffs what I do care about is when someone brings up Spezza as not a PPG player, hasn't been for the past 3 seasons and ignores the playoffs. There's absolutely more to playing than being a PPG and I agree his play has improved drastically. I think he can do both personally. I think he can be a PPG playoff performer and an all around first line Center for Ottawa who is out there in all situations. I also think he can hit a PPG with rookies from here on out, as he has done since returning from injury, and make others better.

I loved his game last night. Can we just agree to both stop bringing it up? or at least I won't talk to you about it and you won't talk to me about it?

This is, of course, precisely what we're all sitting around waiting to see happen, some of us more and others less sanguinely.

He will overcome the 'selfish,' 'lazy,' and 'tin man' stigmas if it just keeps playing like this, is all I can say. But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

I've been talking "baby steps" all season, with reference to his face-offs and PKing and just better overall play. But last night was a full out adult stride forward. For sure.

I'm officially getting excited for Greening, Butler and Condra - although, I'd like to see Condra for a longer sample size. Couple these guys with Z.Smith, Winchester, Shannon etc. and we finally have that hunger and hard-work mentality that we needed so desperately back in December.

As much as I love all these kid's play right now, Colin Greening has made a major impact on me personally. 6'3", speedy, aggressive forechecker, hard-worker (apparently one of the hardest working kids they've seen in Bingo), very mature, a damn genius, and he's got a soft set of hands. Keep bringing him along and he'll be the jewel in our crown IMO, the big body to go with Spezza and Butler (for arguments sake), who can also play a 2nd line role, 3rd line role w/PKing, you name it. Very excited that he's panning out so well, so quick.

rooneypoo wrote:But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

How come Fishlander never had to achieve those criteria and yet be universally loved, admired and acclaimed as a leader?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

How come Fishlander never had to achieve those criteria and yet be universally loved, admired and acclaimed as a leader?

Notice how I had Phillips ranked ahead of Fisher for captain before? There's a reason.

Fisher was never consistent enough in my mind. He was a leader in the sense that he lead by example, giving it his all on the ice, and bringing a physical element that I like and that no one would dare assign to Spezza. Fisher could score and he played his heart out, but he was a maddeningly inconsistent player. I think it was hard for BM to concede this fact, and why it took so long for Fisher to be traded.

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

How come Fishlander never had to achieve those criteria and yet be universally loved, admired and acclaimed as a leader?

Notice how I had Phillips ranked ahead of Fisher for captain before? There's a reason.

Fisher was never consistent enough in my mind. He was a leader in the sense that he lead by example, giving it his all on the ice, and bringing a physical element that I like and that no one would dare assign to Spezza. Fisher could score and he played his heart out, but he was a maddeningly inconsistent player. I think it was hard for BM to concede this fact, and why it took so long for Fisher to be traded.

While I agree with all that, I personally thought Fisher was selfish too.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

How come Fishlander never had to achieve those criteria and yet be universally loved, admired and acclaimed as a leader?

Notice how I had Phillips ranked ahead of Fisher for captain before? There's a reason.

Fisher was never consistent enough in my mind. He was a leader in the sense that he lead by example, giving it his all on the ice, and bringing a physical element that I like and that no one would dare assign to Spezza. Fisher could score and he played his heart out, but he was a maddeningly inconsistent player. I think it was hard for BM to concede this fact, and why it took so long for Fisher to be traded.

While I agree with all that, I personally thought Fisher was selfish too.

You mean about refusing to play wing? Did we ever see any concrete evidence that he's even said that? A lot of that was just speculation if you ask me.

Agreed with Rooney's assessment - great heart, inconsistent performance, loved by fans.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:But he has to stay healthy, be consistent, and strike that balance between the improved D play while still producing the O.

How come Fishlander never had to achieve those criteria and yet be universally loved, admired and acclaimed as a leader?

Notice how I had Phillips ranked ahead of Fisher for captain before? There's a reason.

Fisher was never consistent enough in my mind. He was a leader in the sense that he lead by example, giving it his all on the ice, and bringing a physical element that I like and that no one would dare assign to Spezza. Fisher could score and he played his heart out, but he was a maddeningly inconsistent player. I think it was hard for BM to concede this fact, and why it took so long for Fisher to be traded.

While I agree with all that, I personally thought Fisher was selfish too.

Maybe. Different optics, tho'. Fisher's 'selfishness' (or pigheadedness) cost him the ability to hit guys. Spezza's 'selfishness' (or "I want to do more"-ishness) is always so much more obvious -- those silly plays, ala Game 4 of the round 1 last year, or shift #1 in game #1 this season. Both hurt the team, I agree, and both are grounded in a misguided "I need to be part of the solution" mentality, which should be admirable but often hurts the team -- but the latter one leads to big bad goals against, registered in easily-remembered highlight reel plays, no less.

rooneypoo wrote:Maybe. Different optics, tho'. Fisher's 'selfishness' (or pigheadedness) cost him the ability to hit guys. Spezza's 'selfishness' (or "I want to do more"-ishness) is always so much more obvious -- those silly plays, ala Game 4 of the round 1 last year, or shift #1 in game #1 this season. Both hurt the team, I agree, and both are grounded in a misguided "I need to be part of the solution" mentality, which should be admirable but often hurts the team -- but the latter one leads to big bad goals against, registered in easily-remembered highlight reel plays, no less.

I agree with the distinction. Just saying that Spezza and Fisher are more alike than people (generally) care to notice.

The One is too good for The Tank.

SpezDispenser wrote: The One is too good for The Tank.

Is that a first? A player becoming an emoticon as a nickname? I love it.