Murray insists on...Picard

Bramlet07 wrote:Wow i didn't realize that Picard is older then Mezsaros, i know its not that big of difference but the GP'd sure is.

There are very few players who get drafted after the 1st round who can turn around and play in the NHL right away. Mesz was a 1st round pick (23rd overall, I believe). He was drafted in 2004, played 1 year of junior, and then when straight to the NHL, playing a full season in his first year.

It's important to emphasize that that's not the experience that most young guys go through. Most get drafted, play in the juniors for a year or 2, sign an entry level deal, then play a year or two in the AHL, and then get the call up. It's pretty common to go 2-3 years from the time of drafting to the time you play your first NHL game.

Being a third round draft, Picard was not as NHL-ready as Mesz at the time and he needed more time to develop. He was drafted in 2003-04 and played a year in junior; in 2004-05, he signed his entry-level deal and played in the AHL; in 2005-06, he played a few games in the 1st year of his deal but was sent back down. He played pretty much a full seaons the next year (2006-07), when Philly was god-awful. He fell off the depth chart last season (2007-08) in Philly because they totally revamped their D, bringing in Timonen and Smith via FA, and Coburn via trade late in the previous season. He only got to play when they traded him to TB.

He's only got about 90 games under his belt, I know, but I don't think we should despair about that just yet. I hear very good things about him. His 'slow' development actually reflects the experience of most players and isn't something to be too concerned about. D is an especially hard position to play in the NHL and they regularly take more time to develop.

^^ good points. I guess its taken Lee awhile if you factor him being an earlier pick then Mez was.

rooneypoo wrote:

Bramlet07 wrote:Wow i didn't realize that Picard is older then Mezsaros, i know its not that big of difference but the GP'd sure is.

There are very few players who get drafted after the 1st round who can turn around and play in the NHL right away. Mesz was a 1st round pick (23rd overall, I believe). He was drafted in 2004, played 1 year of junior, and then when straight to the NHL, playing a full season in his first year.

It's important to emphasize that that's not the experience that most young guys go through. Most get drafted, play in the juniors for a year or 2, sign an entry level deal, then play a year or two in the AHL, and then get the call up. It's pretty common to go 2-3 years from the time of drafting to the time you play your first NHL game.

Being a third round draft, Picard was not as NHL-ready as Mesz at the time and he needed more time to develop. He was drafted in 2003-04 and played a year in junior; in 2004-05, he signed his entry-level deal and played in the AHL; in 2005-06, he played a few games in the 1st year of his deal but was sent back down. He played pretty much a full seaons the next year (2006-07), when Philly was god-awful. He fell off the depth chart last season (2007-08) in Philly because they totally revamped their D, bringing in Timonen and Smith via FA, and Coburn via trade late in the previous season. He only got to play when they traded him to TB.

He's only got about 90 games under his belt, I know, but I don't think we should despair about that just yet. I hear very good things about him. His 'slow' development actually reflects the experience of most players and isn't something to be too concerned about. D is an especially hard position to play in the NHL and they regularly take more time to develop.

especially since there's 6 D compared to twelve forwards on the big club

rooneypoo wrote:Being a third round draft, Picard was not as NHL-ready as Mesz at the time and he needed more time to develop. He was drafted in 2003-04 and played a year in junior; in 2004-05, he signed his entry-level deal and played in the AHL; in 2005-06, he played a few games in the 1st year of his deal but was sent back down. He played pretty much a full seaons the next year (2006-07), when Philly was god-awful. He fell off the depth chart last season (2007-08) in Philly because they totally revamped their D, bringing in Timonen and Smith via FA, and Coburn via trade late in the previous season. He only got to play when they traded him to TB.

Just to clarify: He was drafted in 2002-03. I only bring it up because I read the next few sentences thinking you were misstating Mez's history, before I realized you were talking about Picard.

Tukker wrote:especially since there's 6 D compared to twelve forwards on the big club

That's not the reason. There aren't as many spots, true, but defense is harder to play because defenseman constantly evaluate the play and then make a decision. They don't have set plays like forwards, or breakout patterns since that isn't their responsibility. They judge the situation and react to it according to the experience they've developed.

For every Dion Phaneuf there are 100 Alexandre Picards. Most of them just don't have enough experience to know how to handle different situations and haven't developed enough know how of how to judge and assess plays as they develop.

PKC wrote:

Tukker wrote:especially since there's 6 D compared to twelve forwards on the big club

That's not the reason. There aren't as many spots, true, but defense is harder to play because defenseman constantly evaluate the play and then make a decision. They don't have set plays like forwards, or breakout patterns since that isn't their responsibility. They judge the situation and react to it according to the experience they've developed.

For every Dion Phaneuf there are 100 Alexandre Picards. Most of them just don't have enough experience to know how to handle different situations and haven't developed enough know how of how to judge and assess plays as they develop.

From the point of view of someone whose son is a goalie (ugh...), I would also add that defense mistakes also tend to be more visible, and potentially more costly, as there are fewer players to clean up after them. Forwards have more leeway for error. Hence the reason that goalies seem to need even longer to be nurtured along.

Goalies also have to adjust to the speed of the play. These guys are so much bigger, faster, stronger and smarter than anything they face in the minor or junior leagues. You only really get a feel for the speed of the game when you watch the game live and up close. It's unbelievable and I could only imagine what it must be like as a goalie to face these guys who can shoot within a fraction of a second with speeds of 90+ mph.

Acrobat wrote:

From the point of view of someone whose son is a goalie (ugh...), I would also add that defense mistakes also tend to be more visible, and potentially more costly, as there are fewer players to clean up after them. Forwards have more leeway for error. Hence the reason that goalies seem to need even longer to be nurtured along.

No question about it. The CBA recognizes that fact, too: goalies are signed to 4-year entry-level deals, unlike the standard 3-year entry-level deals all skaters sign, AND the they are exempted from waiver rules for a longer period.

But of course, how many 21-year-old goalies do you see in the NHL? There are some here and there in the role of backups, granted... but the Carey Prices of the world are very few and far between.

Man, Montreal is set in nets potentially for the next 15 years. Then again, Elliott's only 23 (24 near the end of the season), so maybe we'll be set in nets for the next decade?

I feel like I'm setting myself up for an inevitable disappointment.

PKC wrote:Man, Montreal is set in nets potentially for the next 15 years. Then again, Elliott's only 23 (24 near the end of the season), so maybe we'll be set in nets for the next decade?

I feel like I'm setting myself up for an inevitable disappointment.

Either he works out, or we go shopping summer of 2010. Or we make a trade that finally solve the goaltending issue. Either way, Murray's job hinges on what he does in the G position IMO.

I think Elliot is going to be real solid. Cam Ward comes to mind...

cash wrote:I think Elliot is going to be real solid. Cam Ward comes to mind...

Diddle.

cash wrote:I think Elliot is going to be real solid. Cam Ward comes to mind...

Hmmmm... was that tongue-in-cheek, or meant as a compliment?