Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

I can’t remember the organization being in anything close to a mess as this. This is next level, laughing stock of the league. The whole thing is crumbling and is the direct result of years of a broke meddling owner that held on to the team too long because he’s trying to maximize his profits and the sale of the team at the detriment of a chance to compete and to maintain a decent team.

I hope it all blows up in his face

Topical end of the season sens, we’re going on a winning streak when the games don’t matter anymore.

We're what the Leafs used to be.

wprager wrote:We're what the Leafs used to be.

not really, We're still gonna finish with a low pick. And I don't see how we're "such a mess". One bad year with a lot of media driven drama. Yes we need a new owner, but there are far worse situations in the NHL.

We have a good core and good hockey people in place.

Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:We're what the Leafs used to be.

not really, We're still gonna finish with a low pick. And I don't see how we're "such a mess". One bad year with a lot of media driven drama. Yes we need a new owner, but there are far worse situations in the NHL.

We have a good core and good hockey people in place.

Agreed. Good core and some assets to make it better next year.

A few things left to cheer for this season.
- Karlsson wins D points race
- Sens finish bottom 5
- Dzingel, Hoffman, and Duchene to eclipse 20 goals (they did it)
- Pittsburgh to be upset in first round (or miss playoffs altogether)

As the off-season nears, I hope we get certainty on:
- Karlsson re-signing
- Stone re-signing
- Duchene re-signing
- Trade Ceci
- Trade Smith
- Do something with Ryan (without including Karlsson)

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

I am absolutely torn on Karlsson.  One day I say re-sign him and then the next I see a quick revamp of the team by moving him.  Back and forth, back and forth.  

Re-sign Karlsson:

Pros:
Fan satisfaction (although apathy exists with him here anyway).
Drives offense from back end.

Cons:
Boat anchor of a contract is almost guaranteed for the last 3 or 4 years, and more if he doesn't continue to recover.
Even at his best he is an average defender.
Power-play has never been good with him.
Contract value could force out a good contract like Hoffman.

Trade Karlsson:

Pros:
Unload Bobby Ryan contract
Return would presumably be a young top 4 D and a grade A prospect up front.
Change of atmosphere with Duchene / Stone / Boro leadership group.

Cons:
Fan backlash (I wouldn't care if I was EM).
A futures based deal could yield very little actual production.
If not followed immediately or preceded by Duchene and Stone deals would they stay.


As a fan I want to keep him, but if I was the GM I would set my price and move him if it was met.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:We're what the Leafs used to be.

not really, We're still gonna finish with a low pick. And I don't see how we're "such a mess". One bad year with a lot of media driven drama. Yes we need a new owner, but there are far worse situations in the NHL.

We have a good core and good hockey people in place.

Agreed. Good core and some assets to make it better next year.

A few things left to cheer for this season.
- Karlsson wins D points race
- Sens finish bottom 5
- Dzingel, Hoffman, and Duchene to eclipse 20 goals  (they did it)
- Pittsburgh to be upset in first round (or miss playoffs altogether)

As the off-season nears, I hope we get certainty on:
- Karlsson re-signing
- Stone re-signing
- Duchene re-signing
- Trade Ceci
- Trade Smith
- Do something with Ryan (without including Karlsson)

See i think we won’t re-sign kalrsson, and by extention I have doubts about our ability to re-sign duchene. That’s a much larger set back. But sure, if you could keep both we’d be ok going forward, just need a top 4 Dman... but, the org has already stated we’re rebuilding so forget about any FA acquisition.

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

I am absolutely torn on Karlsson.  One day I say re-sign him and then the next I see a quick revamp of the team by moving him.  Back and forth, back and forth.  

Re-sign Karlsson:

Pros:
Fan satisfaction (although apathy exists with him here anyway).
Drives offense from back end.

Cons:
Boat anchor of a contract is almost guaranteed for the last 3 or 4 years, and more if he doesn't continue to recover.
Even at his best he is an average defender.
Power-play has never been good with him.
Contract value could force out a good contract like Hoffman.

Trade Karlsson:

Pros:
Unload Bobby Ryan contract
Return would presumably be a young top 4 D and a grade A prospect up front.
Change of atmosphere with Duchene / Stone / Boro leadership group.

Cons:
Fan backlash (I wouldn't care if I was EM).
A futures based deal could yield very little actual production.
If not followed immediately or preceded by Duchene and Stone deals would they stay.


As a fan I want to keep him, but if I was the GM I would set my price and move him if it was met.

Apart from th unlikelihood of us keeping kalrsson I just don’t agree with ownerships take that we should be rebuilding. It’s their unwillingness to spend on acquiring players to make us better by spending more that is making us regress.
This is solely on ownership IMO

Im not assigning blame I am simply stating what I believe the GM should do.

And really, not to defend Melnyk but we do have some of the worst fan support in the league. As I stated earlier this season, we have a 7500 season ticket base, so being a cap team is unrealistic.

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:We're what the Leafs used to be.

not really, We're still gonna finish with a low pick. And I don't see how we're "such a mess". One bad year with a lot of media driven drama. Yes we need a new owner, but there are far worse situations in the NHL.

We have a good core and good hockey people in place.

Agreed. Good core and some assets to make it better next year.

A few things left to cheer for this season.
- Karlsson wins D points race
- Sens finish bottom 5
- Dzingel, Hoffman, and Duchene to eclipse 20 goals  (they did it)
- Pittsburgh to be upset in first round (or miss playoffs altogether)

As the off-season nears, I hope we get certainty on:
- Karlsson re-signing
- Stone re-signing
- Duchene re-signing
- Trade Ceci
- Trade Smith
- Do something with Ryan (without including Karlsson)

See i think we won’t re-sign kalrsson, and by extention I have doubts about our ability to re-sign duchene. That’s a much larger set back. But sure, if you could keep both we’d be ok going forward, just need a top 4 Dman... but, the org has already stated we’re rebuilding so forget about any FA acquisition.

You never know, perhaps Duchene is more likely to stay if Karlsson is gone. You never know what goes on inside someone's head.

Oglethorpe wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:We're what the Leafs used to be.

not really, We're still gonna finish with a low pick. And I don't see how we're "such a mess". One bad year with a lot of media driven drama. Yes we need a new owner, but there are far worse situations in the NHL.

We have a good core and good hockey people in place.

Agreed. Good core and some assets to make it better next year.

A few things left to cheer for this season.
- Karlsson wins D points race
- Sens finish bottom 5
- Dzingel, Hoffman, and Duchene to eclipse 20 goals  (they did it)
- Pittsburgh to be upset in first round (or miss playoffs altogether)

As the off-season nears, I hope we get certainty on:
- Karlsson re-signing
- Stone re-signing
- Duchene re-signing
- Trade Ceci
- Trade Smith
- Do something with Ryan (without including Karlsson)

See i think we won’t re-sign kalrsson, and by extention I have doubts about our ability to re-sign duchene. That’s a much larger set back. But sure, if you could keep both we’d be ok going forward, just need a top 4 Dman... but, the org has already stated we’re rebuilding so forget about any FA acquisition.

You never know, perhaps Duchene is more likely to stay if Karlsson is gone.  You never know what goes on inside someone's head.

I think both Duchene and Stone's decision do not hinge on Karlsson, especially depending on Karlsson's return. There is no doubt Karlsson is amazing, but if they can move him and Ryan, get a really good return, add some players and be competitive, then so be it. Duchene seems like a class act. The way he handled his situation in Colorado was something to be admired. He will re-sign here. Even if we overpay him. Dorion will not let him go.

Flo The Action wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

I am absolutely torn on Karlsson.  One day I say re-sign him and then the next I see a quick revamp of the team by moving him.  Back and forth, back and forth.  

Re-sign Karlsson:

Pros:
Fan satisfaction (although apathy exists with him here anyway).
Drives offense from back end.

Cons:
Boat anchor of a contract is almost guaranteed for the last 3 or 4 years, and more if he doesn't continue to recover.
Even at his best he is an average defender.
Power-play has never been good with him.
Contract value could force out a good contract like Hoffman.

Trade Karlsson:

Pros:
Unload Bobby Ryan contract
Return would presumably be a young top 4 D and a grade A prospect up front.
Change of atmosphere with Duchene / Stone / Boro leadership group.

Cons:
Fan backlash (I wouldn't care if I was EM).
A futures based deal could yield very little actual production.
If not followed immediately or preceded by Duchene and Stone deals would they stay.


As a fan I want to keep him, but if I was the GM I would set my price and move him if it was met.

Apart from th unlikelihood of us keeping kalrsson I just don’t agree with ownerships take that we should be rebuilding. It’s their unwillingness to spend on acquiring players to make us better by spending more that is making us regress.
This is solely on ownership IMO

Ottawa has spent money over the years. They just aren't spending money in the right areas. Remember Phaneuf and Ryan were a combined $14M+ this year and are probably worth a combined $6M.

The problems in Ottawa has been assessing player value and asset management. Remember, Dorion last year said Brass was their best player. Analytics spoke otherwise. Burrows was a bad trade and a worse signing. We signed Thompson and Oduya over Stalberg and Wingels. Anderson and Condon were re-signed to big contracts for the two of them.

Melnyk has spent money - his management is not bringing in the right players.

Congratulations to SensChirp for getting a spot on TSN1200 today.

Lagoon wrote:Congratulations to SensChirp for getting a spot on TSN1200 today.

A regular spot?

Flo The Action wrote:

Lagoon wrote:Congratulations to SensChirp for getting a spot on TSN1200 today.

A regular spot?

A guest appearance for an hour. Graham from the 6th Sens was their guest last week. They are rotating amongst the best on the net.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

I am absolutely torn on Karlsson.  One day I say re-sign him and then the next I see a quick revamp of the team by moving him.  Back and forth, back and forth.  

Re-sign Karlsson:

Pros:
Fan satisfaction (although apathy exists with him here anyway).
Drives offense from back end.

Cons:
Boat anchor of a contract is almost guaranteed for the last 3 or 4 years, and more if he doesn't continue to recover.
Even at his best he is an average defender.
Power-play has never been good with him.
Contract value could force out a good contract like Hoffman.

Trade Karlsson:

Pros:
Unload Bobby Ryan contract
Return would presumably be a young top 4 D and a grade A prospect up front.
Change of atmosphere with Duchene / Stone / Boro leadership group.

Cons:
Fan backlash (I wouldn't care if I was EM).
A futures based deal could yield very little actual production.
If not followed immediately or preceded by Duchene and Stone deals would they stay.


As a fan I want to keep him, but if I was the GM I would set my price and move him if it was met.

Apart from th unlikelihood of us keeping kalrsson I just don’t agree with ownerships take that we should be rebuilding. It’s their unwillingness to spend on acquiring players to make us better by spending more that is making us regress.
This is solely on ownership IMO

Ottawa has spent money over the years. They just aren't spending money in the right areas. Remember Phaneuf and Ryan were a combined $14M+ this year and are probably worth a combined $6M.

The problems in Ottawa has been assessing player value and asset management. Remember, Dorion last year said Brass was their best player. Analytics spoke otherwise. Burrows was a bad trade and a worse signing. We signed Thompson and Oduya over Stalberg and Wingels. Anderson and Condon were re-signed to big contracts for the two of them.

Melnyk has spent money - his management is not bringing in the right players.  

And let's not forget how the team views Cody Ceci... Apparently he's more valuable than Taylor Hall

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I like the core too, but if Karlsson is traded that can put us in a pretty weak situation on the backend.

I am absolutely torn on Karlsson.  One day I say re-sign him and then the next I see a quick revamp of the team by moving him.  Back and forth, back and forth.  

Re-sign Karlsson:

Pros:
Fan satisfaction (although apathy exists with him here anyway).
Drives offense from back end.

Cons:
Boat anchor of a contract is almost guaranteed for the last 3 or 4 years, and more if he doesn't continue to recover.
Even at his best he is an average defender.
Power-play has never been good with him.
Contract value could force out a good contract like Hoffman.

Trade Karlsson:

Pros:
Unload Bobby Ryan contract
Return would presumably be a young top 4 D and a grade A prospect up front.
Change of atmosphere with Duchene / Stone / Boro leadership group.

Cons:
Fan backlash (I wouldn't care if I was EM).
A futures based deal could yield very little actual production.
If not followed immediately or preceded by Duchene and Stone deals would they stay.


As a fan I want to keep him, but if I was the GM I would set my price and move him if it was met.

Apart from th unlikelihood of us keeping kalrsson I just don’t agree with ownerships take that we should be rebuilding. It’s their unwillingness to spend on acquiring players to make us better by spending more that is making us regress.
This is solely on ownership IMO

Ottawa has spent money over the years. They just aren't spending money in the right areas. Remember Phaneuf and Ryan were a combined $14M+ this year and are probably worth a combined $6M.

The problems in Ottawa has been assessing player value and asset management. Remember, Dorion last year said Brass was their best player. Analytics spoke otherwise. Burrows was a bad trade and a worse signing. We signed Thompson and Oduya over Stalberg and Wingels. Anderson and Condon were re-signed to big contracts for the two of them.

Melnyk has spent money - his management is not bringing in the right players.  

And let's not forget how the team views Cody Ceci... Apparently he's more valuable than Taylor Hall

That was never a real trade option. Don't buy into the twitter rumour crap. If that was ever real, it would have been reported much much earlier. Ceci was never going to get you Taylor Hall.

As for your bolded comment, that's not accurate. It was the analytics which said he was the Sens best forward last year. And he was very good.

Thompson and Oduya had nothing to do with Stalberg and Wingels. Stalberg wasn't wanted, league-wide, and Wingels is the same as Thompson.