Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Definitely.  I think everyone's very pleased to move on from that one and now move into what could be a tougher one with Ceci after Dekeyser's Great Day.

Oh, crap, you're right.  How much is mama's cooking worth to Cody, I wonder?  Sens have $8.8M cap space left.  If Ceci gets anywhere near $5M they will be just $4M under the cap.  Last year only 13 teams in the league were under $5M in cap room.  Toronto were almost exactly at $4M and were 10th highest (cap) in the league.  Could be the Sens will be in the top-third or very close.  What does that do to the "budget" talk?

Nothing?

OTT has done nothing but lock up all its key young players, year over year, since people starting talking about this. And you're right, I think Ceci earns at least a $3 mil / year deal, pushing our cap up to $68~ mil.

The problem is people say' budget' and they don't have a clear idea of what they're actually trying to communicate. I believe the Sens have an internal budget, under the cap but well over the floor. But if your budget is $70~ mil ish, which is what it's looking like at this point, and your cap is $73 mil, then it's a pretty minute point to insist on. Meaningless, really.

Anyway, we've been smart with our cap and salary commitments long term. Turris and Stone will need new contracts in 2 years, and so will Anderson (or we'll need a new goalie). Karlsson (and Methot, if he's still here) are up the year after that. The people who think the Sens don't spend on UFA day because they're cheap are myopic and just don't see the long term impact of stupid UFA spending. Do you think that, if NYI could go back in time, they would still give out $9 mil /yr to Grabo and Kulemin via UFA if they had realized it would cost them Okposo?

People can be so stubborn and short sighted on this question.

I think that's a crock of Dung. Yeah we all know the org operates under their own budget and you can't be counting players new contracts in 2 -3 years. You know what other teams do when they operate closer to the cap ceiling because of FA? They end up trading players and recuperating assets. So sorry if I don't buy into that scenario that we are holding off for future contracts. We could easily invest on a one or two year contract on a guy like Hudler for the third line and not have a problem with the cap.
And the isles had the space to resign okposo, they too operate under a self imposed budget. They were the masters of their own destiny and their own budget cost them. I wouldn't place the blame on just sayin they made bad decisions.

Truth is this self imposed budget IS hampering us from putting he best competitive team out there.
It plays into how we handle making trades(like having to move out our bad contracts in one like the phaneuf trade) so don't start coming in here telling anyone that's got a problem with the budget mentality that they are day dreaming. That's bull

People think Dung average players like Hudler would suddenly propel us to some higher level?

Rooneypoo's post was 100% correct. A small market, retooling, Canadian team operating on a slight budget is 100% fair especially given the contracts we need to dish out soon.

Precisely. Let's throw Dung on a wall and hope it sticks. Stupid.

Hoffside wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Definitely.  I think everyone's very pleased to move on from that one and now move into what could be a tougher one with Ceci after Dekeyser's Great Day.

Oh, crap, you're right.  How much is mama's cooking worth to Cody, I wonder?  Sens have $8.8M cap space left.  If Ceci gets anywhere near $5M they will be just $4M under the cap.  Last year only 13 teams in the league were under $5M in cap room.  Toronto were almost exactly at $4M and were 10th highest (cap) in the league.  Could be the Sens will be in the top-third or very close.  What does that do to the "budget" talk?

Nothing?

OTT has done nothing but lock up all its key young players, year over year, since people starting talking about this. And you're right, I think Ceci earns at least a $3 mil / year deal, pushing our cap up to $68~ mil.

The problem is people say' budget' and they don't have a clear idea of what they're actually trying to communicate. I believe the Sens have an internal budget, under the cap but well over the floor. But if your budget is $70~ mil ish, which is what it's looking like at this point, and your cap is $73 mil, then it's a pretty minute point to insist on. Meaningless, really.

Anyway, we've been smart with our cap and salary commitments long term. Turris and Stone will need new contracts in 2 years, and so will Anderson (or we'll need a new goalie). Karlsson (and Methot, if he's still here) are up the year after that. The people who think the Sens don't spend on UFA day because they're cheap are myopic and just don't see the long term impact of stupid UFA spending. Do you think that, if NYI could go back in time, they would still give out $9 mil /yr to Grabo and Kulemin via UFA if they had realized it would cost them Okposo?

People can be so stubborn and short sighted on this question.

That's Ottawa fans.  I don't blame them entirely though, melnyk has come out constantly and said dumb things, and this Dung really spiraled out of control after the alfie debacle.  Since then though, sens have signed every key player to a contract.  Ppl just automatically assume that if a team doesn't throw out ridiculous money in short order, then they're cheap.  Perhaps when the sens are realistically in the realm of a stanely cup, they'll add that key player without having to waive or trade another key cog in the lineup.  

You're right, Melnyk doesn't help things, for sure. But to act like spending $3 mil on a 3rd liner is the difference between not making the playoffs and going 3-4 rounds deep. Please.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Definitely.  I think everyone's very pleased to move on from that one and now move into what could be a tougher one with Ceci after Dekeyser's Great Day.

Oh, crap, you're right.  How much is mama's cooking worth to Cody, I wonder?  Sens have $8.8M cap space left.  If Ceci gets anywhere near $5M they will be just $4M under the cap.  Last year only 13 teams in the league were under $5M in cap room.  Toronto were almost exactly at $4M and were 10th highest (cap) in the league.  Could be the Sens will be in the top-third or very close.  What does that do to the "budget" talk?

Nothing?

OTT has done nothing but lock up all its key young players, year over year, since people starting talking about this. And you're right, I think Ceci earns at least a $3 mil / year deal, pushing our cap up to $68~ mil.

The problem is people say' budget' and they don't have a clear idea of what they're actually trying to communicate. I believe the Sens have an internal budget, under the cap but well over the floor. But if your budget is $70~ mil ish, which is what it's looking like at this point, and your cap is $73 mil, then it's a pretty minute point to insist on. Meaningless, really.

Anyway, we've been smart with our cap and salary commitments long term. Turris and Stone will need new contracts in 2 years, and so will Anderson (or we'll need a new goalie). Karlsson (and Methot, if he's still here) are up the year after that. The people who think the Sens don't spend on UFA day because they're cheap are myopic and just don't see the long term impact of stupid UFA spending. Do you think that, if NYI could go back in time, they would still give out $9 mil /yr to Grabo and Kulemin via UFA if they had realized it would cost them Okposo?

People can be so stubborn and short sighted on this question.

I think that's a crock of Dung. Yeah we all know the org operates under their own budget and you can't be counting players new contracts in 2 -3 years. You know what other teams do when they operate closer to the cap ceiling because of FA? They end up trading players and recuperating assets. So sorry if I don't buy into that scenario that we are holding off for future contracts. We could easily invest on a one or two year contract on a guy like Hudler for the third line and not have a problem with the cap.
And the isles had the space to resign okposo, they too operate under a self imposed budget. They were the masters of their own destiny and their own budget cost them. I wouldn't place the blame on just sayin they made bad decisions.

Truth is this self imposed budget IS hampering us from putting he best competitive team out there.
It plays into how we handle making trades(like having to move out our bad contracts in one like the phaneuf trade) so don't start coming in here telling anyone that's got a problem with the budget mentality that they are day dreaming. That's bull

People think Dung average players like Hudler would suddenly propel us to some higher level?

Rooneypoo's post was 100% correct. A small market, retooling, Canadian team operating on a slight budget is 100% fair especially given the contracts we need to dish out soon.

I'm not saying it would propel the team but when your Gm comes out saying the team is in win now mode yet we aren't. Filling in spots with the best possible players I'm left thinking where the budget comes in. the third line RW spot is still wide open hoping someone takes it but that's just hoping. If we were really all in we'd try to fill that void with someone that could right now make us better. We should of went after someone like a Brower. Fact is we didn't. We could be more competitive if in fact we are in win now mode, but something is holding us back.... I wonder what it is...

Tell you what it isn't: money. Because $5 mil extra in salary isn't turning this team from playoff bubble team to instant playoff favourite.

We've spend a lot of time building a young core. They've gotta have the time to become something. You can argue that maybe we've built wrong -- your call, and legitimately debatable -- but not that it's a lack of spending holding us back. I'd be the livid if we'd paid $4 mil long term for a 3rd liner. Stupid, reactionary spending -- like spending $9 mil a year on Grabo and Kulemin.

rooneypoo wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Definitely.  I think everyone's very pleased to move on from that one and now move into what could be a tougher one with Ceci after Dekeyser's Great Day.

Oh, crap, you're right.  How much is mama's cooking worth to Cody, I wonder?  Sens have $8.8M cap space left.  If Ceci gets anywhere near $5M they will be just $4M under the cap.  Last year only 13 teams in the league were under $5M in cap room.  Toronto were almost exactly at $4M and were 10th highest (cap) in the league.  Could be the Sens will be in the top-third or very close.  What does that do to the "budget" talk?

Nothing?

OTT has done nothing but lock up all its key young players, year over year, since people starting talking about this. And you're right, I think Ceci earns at least a $3 mil / year deal, pushing our cap up to $68~ mil.

The problem is people say' budget' and they don't have a clear idea of what they're actually trying to communicate. I believe the Sens have an internal budget, under the cap but well over the floor. But if your budget is $70~ mil ish, which is what it's looking like at this point, and your cap is $73 mil, then it's a pretty minute point to insist on. Meaningless, really.

Anyway, we've been smart with our cap and salary commitments long term. Turris and Stone will need new contracts in 2 years, and so will Anderson (or we'll need a new goalie). Karlsson (and Methot, if he's still here) are up the year after that. The people who think the Sens don't spend on UFA day because they're cheap are myopic and just don't see the long term impact of stupid UFA spending. Do you think that, if NYI could go back in time, they would still give out $9 mil /yr to Grabo and Kulemin via UFA if they had realized it would cost them Okposo?

People can be so stubborn and short sighted on this question.

I think that's a crock of Dung. Yeah we all know the org operates under their own budget and you can't be counting players new contracts in 2 -3 years. You know what other teams do when they operate closer to the cap ceiling because of FA? They end up trading players and recuperating assets. So sorry if I don't buy into that scenario that we are holding off for future contracts. We could easily invest on a one or two year contract on a guy like Hudler for the third line and not have a problem with the cap.
And the isles had the space to resign okposo, they too operate under a self imposed budget. They were the masters of their own destiny and their own budget cost them. I wouldn't place the blame on just sayin they made bad decisions.

Truth is this self imposed budget IS hampering us from putting he best competitive team out there.
It plays into how we handle making trades(like having to move out our bad contracts in one like the phaneuf trade) so don't start coming in here telling anyone that's got a problem with the budget mentality that they are day dreaming. That's bull

If anyone thinks we're one Hudler away from a cup, they're dreaming. End of story.

No but are we more likely to make the playoffs or to win a round with Hudler or without? He'd be easy to get on a 1 or 2 year deal and it wouldn't affect any future contracts.
So don't distort what I've said and answer that question, are we more likely to to make the playoffs or win a round with a Hudler (or preferably a brower) type of player signed short termed.

rooneypoo wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Definitely.  I think everyone's very pleased to move on from that one and now move into what could be a tougher one with Ceci after Dekeyser's Great Day.

Oh, crap, you're right.  How much is mama's cooking worth to Cody, I wonder?  Sens have $8.8M cap space left.  If Ceci gets anywhere near $5M they will be just $4M under the cap.  Last year only 13 teams in the league were under $5M in cap room.  Toronto were almost exactly at $4M and were 10th highest (cap) in the league.  Could be the Sens will be in the top-third or very close.  What does that do to the "budget" talk?

Nothing?

OTT has done nothing but lock up all its key young players, year over year, since people starting talking about this. And you're right, I think Ceci earns at least a $3 mil / year deal, pushing our cap up to $68~ mil.

The problem is people say' budget' and they don't have a clear idea of what they're actually trying to communicate. I believe the Sens have an internal budget, under the cap but well over the floor. But if your budget is $70~ mil ish, which is what it's looking like at this point, and your cap is $73 mil, then it's a pretty minute point to insist on. Meaningless, really.

Anyway, we've been smart with our cap and salary commitments long term. Turris and Stone will need new contracts in 2 years, and so will Anderson (or we'll need a new goalie). Karlsson (and Methot, if he's still here) are up the year after that. The people who think the Sens don't spend on UFA day because they're cheap are myopic and just don't see the long term impact of stupid UFA spending. Do you think that, if NYI could go back in time, they would still give out $9 mil /yr to Grabo and Kulemin via UFA if they had realized it would cost them Okposo?

People can be so stubborn and short sighted on this question.

I think that's a crock of Dung. Yeah we all know the org operates under their own budget and you can't be counting players new contracts in 2 -3 years. You know what other teams do when they operate closer to the cap ceiling because of FA? They end up trading players and recuperating assets. So sorry if I don't buy into that scenario that we are holding off for future contracts. We could easily invest on a one or two year contract on a guy like Hudler for the third line and not have a problem with the cap.
And the isles had the space to resign okposo, they too operate under a self imposed budget. They were the masters of their own destiny and their own budget cost them. I wouldn't place the blame on just sayin they made bad decisions.

Truth is this self imposed budget IS hampering us from putting he best competitive team out there.
It plays into how we handle making trades(like having to move out our bad contracts in one like the phaneuf trade) so don't start coming in here telling anyone that's got a problem with the budget mentality that they are day dreaming. That's bull

People think Dung average players like Hudler would suddenly propel us to some higher level?

Rooneypoo's post was 100% correct. A small market, retooling, Canadian team operating on a slight budget is 100% fair especially given the contracts we need to dish out soon.

I'm not saying it would propel the team but when your Gm comes out saying the team is in win now mode yet we aren't. Filling in spots with the best possible players I'm left thinking where the budget comes in. the third line RW spot is still wide open hoping someone takes it but that's just hoping. If we were really all in we'd try to fill that void with someone that could right now make us better. We should of went after someone like a Brower. Fact is we didn't. We could be more competitive if in fact we are in win now mode, but something is holding us back.... I wonder what it is...

Tell you what it isn't: money. Because $5 mil extra in salary isn't turning this team from playoff bubble team to instant playoff favourite.

We've spend a lot of time building a young core. They've gotta have the time to become something. You can argue that maybe we've built wrong -- your call, and legitimately debatable -- but not that it's a lack of spending holding us back. I'd be the livid if we'd paid $4 mil long term for a 3rd liner. Stupid, reactionary spending -- like spending $9 mil a year on Grabo and Kulemin.

Who's talking about spending long term? We could use our cap space to get a player with NHL experience and more success than a bunch of players that may or may not pan out fighting for a spot like this year. If you don't think making the playoff consistently and winning a round wouldn't actually help the core of this team become better than you're shutting your eyes.
And yes even giving a 3-4 years to a good player and maybe trading him by year two if someone is pushing for his spot isn't the worst idea ever. Plenty of teams do it and guess what, it creates assets coming back in the process.

This whole talk of just sitting on cap space for the sake of future contracts 2-3 years away is absolute crap. It's just playing ostrich to the fact that we could be making the team better. It's not a question of become a playoff bubble team to winning it all! There's plenty of steps in between and bringing in another player to help us along that way isn't ludicrous. But yes, being on an internal budget puts a socket in those cogs. C'mon!

Seriously, there's people that are freaking out about the budget thinking Melnyk is trying to put a cap floor team together and are scarred to death of retaining player and then there's you're argument where all is well because we resigned a few guys without really improving the team.

There is a grey area between the two!

I think we had an opportunity to pump in two years of hudler and be as dangerous as most top teams in the east, while giving Lazar a year to be dominant in the ahl.

I think they wanted a guy for one year only though, but I'm legit surprised they didn't sign a third liner.

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Claesson/UFA-Wideman

Looks good

Anderson

Ev wrote:Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Claesson/UFA-Wideman

Looks good

Anderson

Im not a big a fan of that third line as it means smith being the same type of player he was last year which I don't believe he can be (cannot replicate that shot%) and lazar has to take a step up when I think he should be in the A.
Also that second line is one hit away on Mac from being in trouble.
That third line is average but whatever. It's a fourth line.that D is the best it's looked in a long time.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Claesson/UFA-Wideman

Looks good

Anderson

Im not a big a fan of that third line as it means smith being the same type of player he was last year which I don't believe he can be (cannot replicate that shot%) and lazar has to take a step up when I think he should be in the A.
Also that second line is one hit away on Mac from being in trouble.
That third line is average but whatever. It's a fourth line.that D is the best it's looked in a long time.

No it doesn't - he doesn't have to score 20 goals to be a good third liner. Last year he was being used as a 2nd liner for a large portion of the season. Smith and Pageau are all third line players, so how exactly is it a fourth line? You must be expecting too much out of a third line because this is a very good third line. Lazar will also be improved but even if he is the same player, Smith and Pageau make it a good line.

Also I don't buy into the theory of "being one hit away" from retirement for guys who have had concussions. It's not a concern for me. He's back 100% healthy so nobody should think he's at more risk than other players. If he does get injured, another player will step up or they make a trade.

Nice to see Dr. Poo parachute in again when the "budget" is brought up.

You have to discuss this carefully...recent moves the Sens have made have shown that Melnyk's finances are still a hurdle.

- The Brassard/ZBad trade: we threw in a 2nd round pick to save on Brassard's July 15th bonus of $2M. Likely not a huge deal, but still an asset we gave away for money-related concerns.

- Brassard's actual salary: He's making $5M this coming season, then $3.5M in the final two years. This saves actual money over what ZBad is going to make.

- Hoffman signing: He's only going to make $3.8M next season, and then $5.65M the last three. There's a reason that the salary is lower in 16/17...maybe Melnyk is hoping that by 17/18, he'll have more cash flow? Also, I don't think the Hoff has a NMC this coming season...something to keep an eye on.

- All the contracts: In fact, Hoffman's isn't the only contract structured like this. Pretty much every multi-year contract the Sens have signed with players escalates over the years (Karlsson, Stone, Turris , Smith, Ryan, Pageau, etc). This doesn't fully align with what other teams do.

- Phaneuf: Even the Phaneuf trade saved us real dollars in the short-term.

Anyway, I agree that the Sens are doing a good job managing the cap currently, and need to maintain a bit of flexibility to continue to resign guys. We'll see how it turns out long-term. Resigning Stone and Turris next offseason will be the next big hurdle for the Sens accountants to overcome.

Ev wrote:Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Claesson/UFA-Wideman

Looks good

Anderson

Smith and Pageau are gonna bring it, unless Smith takes a step back in the intensity department. I'm really not sold on Lazar's offense - at all. And that's a big thing in this NHL IMO, you need to be able to roll out 3 lines that can score, the 4th line being the energy line that chips in once in a while.

I'll continue to feel this way until Lazar can prove us all wrong. He looked sooo good at the beginning, but the offence never came, now...the pressure is on him and the organization if he starts out with 3 points in 20 or whatever.

"This is a great day for the organization. I shouldn't tell you this but II actually hugged Randy Lee today," says Dorion. #Sens

PTFlea wrote:

Ev wrote:Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar
Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

Methot-Karlsson
Phaneuf-Ceci
Claesson/UFA-Wideman

Looks good

Anderson

Smith and Pageau are gonna bring it, unless Smith takes a step back in the intensity department.  I'm really not sold on Lazar's offense - at all.  And that's a big thing in this NHL IMO, you need to be able to roll out 3 lines that can score, the 4th line being the energy line that chips in once in a while.

I'll continue to feel this way until Lazar can prove us all wrong.  He looked sooo good at the beginning, but the offence never came, now...the pressure is on him and the organization if he starts out with 3 points in 20 or whatever.

I'm amazed that you actually believe that he looked "sooo good at the beginning." He looked like Dung and should have went back to Junior.

I think Puempel starts L3 instead of Lazar. They will give him a chance to perform on a more offensive line at the start of the year. If it doesn't work out they send him down and that's it for him.

Nick Paul will also start on L4. A line of Pau-Kelly-Lazar could end up being a very good two-way line.

Phaneuf will be paired with Karlsson. My guess anyway.

I can also see Sieloff getting a shot vs a UFA d-man next to Wideman

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I think Puempel starts L3 instead of Lazar. They will give him a chance to perform on a more offensive line at the start of the year. If it doesn't work out they send him down and that's it for him.

Nick Paul will also start on L4. A line of Pau-Kelly-Lazar could end up being a very good two-way line.

Phaneuf will be paired with Karlsson. My guess anyway.

I can also see Sieloff getting a shot vs a UFA d-man next to Wideman

I'd be pretty disappointed if the 3rd line was used for trial and error auditions but we should be used to that sort of crap by now.

Sieloff looks promising to me solely from the scouting reports I've read.