Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I don't know what the legalities are either, but asking a player if they want to be there is within the rules. How can't it be. Players have year-end meetings with management all the time. Dorion is totally within his right to ask Karlsson if he is happy and whether or not he wants to be part of the team moving forward.

I'm sure that there could be an offline discussion that occurs between Dorion and Karlsson. The problem is that none of this is binding. If Melnyk sells the team this summer, maybe Karlsson is way more inclined to resign. Maybe he's less inclined (unlikely). Maybe he wants to see the Sens spend some money in free agency to improve the team before he commits...too many variables to list. If you can't resign him this summer, then you start shopping him. For the love of god you can't go the Stamkos route and actually let him get to free agency.

tim1_2 wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I don't know what the legalities are either, but asking a player if they want to be there is within the rules. How can't it be. Players have year-end meetings with management all the time. Dorion is totally within his right to ask Karlsson if he is happy and whether or not he wants to be part of the team moving forward.

I'm sure that there could be an offline discussion that occurs between Dorion and Karlsson.  The problem is that none of this is binding.  If Melnyk sells the team this summer, maybe Karlsson is way more inclined to resign.  Maybe he's less inclined (unlikely).  Maybe he wants to see the Sens spend some money in free agency to improve the team before he commits...too many variables to list.  If you can't resign him this summer, then you start shopping him.  For the love of god you can't go the Stamkos route and actually let him get to free agency.

Yeah there’s no way this can lead to the stamkos (or Tavares) situation.
At the lastest there needs to be a decision made on Karlsson by training camp next year.
But if he’s at least inclined to stay then I believe that’s the right decision to make and keep him. Even if that means spending in free agency to make this team better. Once he signs that contract then that’s that.
I think it’s time for Melnyk to pony up. Sure clear some salary this year but the salary you saved is the salary you should then spend into making this team better.
MYbe there are some trades to be made with some of the assets this trade deadline will bring.
When all is said and done I won’t be happy unless this year is just a retool. I’m not down with a tear down rebuild and I’m not down with nothing being done in the off season to level as a cap team.

Bottom line is simple. I don’t want Melnyk as an owner anymore. He’s driving this franchise into the ground.

trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

If they trade Karlsson, the return better be through the roof. Dorion sucks at trading and I'm very nervous.

PTFlea wrote:If they trade Karlsson, the return better be through the roof.  Dorion sucks at trading and I'm very nervous.

It better make the duchene trade look like small potatos.

And still I hate this. This is a legacy player out the door. It diminishes what Ottawa is as a franchise. Generational talents have mostly if not all stayed with the franchise that has drafted them in recent nhl history. This sends a terrible signal.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

It’s not about money. Just eat up that narrative like other sheep or though.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:If they trade Karlsson, the return better be through the roof.  Dorion sucks at trading and I'm very nervous.

It better make the duchene trade look like small potatos.

And still I hate this. This is a legacy player out the door. It diminishes what Ottawa is as a franchise. Generational talents have mostly if not all stayed with the franchise that has drafted them in recent nhl history. This sends a terrible signal.

It doesn’t send any bad signal if it’s the players choice to be moved. He’s also not generational right now, he’s been complete trash as a number one d this season and is not getting any younger. I have serious doubts he will ever be able to return to his previous form. To me he is just not worth eating up that much cap space and that many minutes.

Boston trader joe Thornton who was a similar player and it didn’t do anything for their reputation. When Melnyk sells the team the reputation of the team will be good. Also, I have it on good authority that he will sel this summer, so karlsson won’t be 100% traded as of yet

Yeah, I honestly wouldn't dream of trading him right now unless the return is unreal. Even then...his partners this year have been trash basically all year. Hard to say he's been a weak number 1 when he's supported by nothing but number 4s or even 5s.

Wow, I really didn’t think trading Karlsson was an actual thing that could happen until I heard Bobby Mac and Dreger talking about it yesterday. Now it sounds like he’s gone by Monday or for sure in the summer. I mean fart, Bergevin came out and quashed PK rumours when those were swirling. The only thing Dorion said was the old “even Gretzky was traded” line. Bobby Mac said yesterday on the pre-game show on TSN 1200 that Dorion is calling other teams about Karlsson (i.e. actively shopping him). I have a ton of mixed emotions about this and again, it’s one of those situations where we’ll never really know the truth.

Is it about money? I don’t believe this. I think even Eugene understands that his team is worth more with Karlsson than without. I also still believe that the Euge is selling by this summer and doesn’t plan on having to pay a dime under a new contract for the Captain.

Is it about how Karlsson feels about the team? This I believe. If the team had a sane owner and was performing well, I totally think Karlsson would be inclined to stay. His wife is from here and he’s about to have a son. I’m sure he’d like everything to be in good shape with the team and he’d like to be a part of this. So I think that he may not like the coach, I think he certainly doesn’t like the owner, and I think he’s angry about the way that The Alfie, Turris, and maybe even Methot were treated. I think he’s probably not fond of the moves that were made to “improve” the team after going to the conference finals (i.e. your Nate Thompsons/Gabe Dumonts/whoevers of the world). And hey, I’m sure the constant distractions about the poor attendance aren’t fuelling him either. And yeah, having crazy Euge at the helm isn’t encouraging to anyone.

Is it about how the team feels about Karlsson? Yeah, there’s a reason to be concerned about his declining performance this year. Yeah, I’d be a little worried about the injuries with his foot. If the team signed him, it’d be for 8 years for a ton of money…you want to be sure that you’re getting your money’s worth. So…maybe this plays into it, and rightfully so. And if the team were in great shape otherwise (i.e. good on-ice performance and stable ownership), this would be easier to sell to the fans. Also, Karlsson has a “big” personality, as most star athletes do. Maybe management doesn’t totally like his style of leadership or the way he carries himself (see: Bergevin/Therrien vs PK Subban).

As things stand, it’s going to be the “last straw” with a lot of people. The public backlash will be epic. The whole Turris thing was tough, but at least most fans were able to look past getting rid of an incredibly popular guy because we got an even better player back. When Karlsson is traded, this will not be the case.

So the truth is likely somewhere in the middle and the split is likely somewhat mutual. It sucks though. Despite the rough year and potential red flags, I’d be doing everything I could to lock Karlsson up to 8 years at $12M+.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

It’s not about money. Just eat up that narrative like other sheep or though.

How you can even say that it isn’t about money is beyond me. If Kalrsson could make 7 mill for next 4 years we wouldn’t be having any trading arguments.
I think a big reason Karlsson’s play has diminished is he’s still playing at a reduced capacity. If his last injury is any indication that he can recover I’ll take the gamble that it is. Plus the fact that the org is willling to take a lesser return if they can tack on Ryan in the deal is a primary indicator of how much money is a factor. If not they’d be buying Ryan out and getting a max return.

Frankly you calling people sheeps is comical when you constantly play the ostrich.

PTFlea wrote:Yeah, I honestly wouldn't dream of trading him right now unless the return is unreal.  Even then...his partners this year have been trash basically all year.  Hard to say he's been a weak number 1 when he's supported by nothing but number 4s or even 5s.

Having a 6th or 7th Dman as a partner surely cannot help. I think this season has also hurt the confidence he’s played with in the past. He’s not a happy camper on the ice right now.

tim1_2 wrote:Wow, I really didn’t think trading Karlsson was an actual thing that could happen until I heard Bobby Mac and Dreger talking about it yesterday.  Now it sounds like he’s gone by Monday or for sure in the summer.  I mean fart, Bergevin came out and quashed PK rumours when those were swirling.  The only thing Dorion said was the old “even Gretzky was traded” line.  Bobby Mac said yesterday on the pre-game show on TSN 1200 that Dorion is calling other teams about Karlsson (i.e. actively shopping him).  I have a ton of mixed emotions about this and again, it’s one of those situations where we’ll never really know the truth.

Is it about money?  I don’t believe this.  I think even Eugene understands that his team is worth more with Karlsson than without.  I also still believe that the Euge is selling by this summer and doesn’t plan on having to pay a dime under a new contract for the Captain.

Is it about how Karlsson feels about the team?  This I believe.  If the team had a sane owner and was performing well, I totally think Karlsson would be inclined to stay.  His wife is from here and he’s about to have a son.  I’m sure he’d like everything to be in good shape with the team and he’d like to be a part of this.  So I think that he may not like the coach, I think he certainly doesn’t like the owner, and I think he’s angry about the way that The Alfie, Turris, and maybe even Methot were treated.  I think he’s probably not fond of the moves that were made to “improve” the team after going to the conference finals (i.e. your Nate Thompsons/Gabe Dumonts/whoevers of the world).  And hey, I’m sure the constant distractions about the poor attendance aren’t fuelling him either.  And yeah, having crazy Euge at the helm isn’t encouraging to anyone.

Is it about how the team feels about Karlsson?  Yeah, there’s a reason to be concerned about his declining performance this year.  Yeah, I’d be a little worried about the injuries with his foot.  If the team signed him, it’d be for 8 years for a ton of money…you want to be sure that you’re getting your money’s worth.  So…maybe this plays into it, and rightfully so.  And if the team were in great shape otherwise (i.e. good on-ice performance and stable ownership), this would be easier to sell to the fans. Also, Karlsson has a “big” personality, as most star athletes do.  Maybe management doesn’t totally like his style of leadership or the way he carries himself (see: Bergevin/Therrien vs PK Subban).  

As things stand, it’s going to be the “last straw” with a lot of people.  The public backlash will be epic.  The whole Turris thing was tough, but at least most fans were able to look past getting rid of an incredibly popular guy because we got an even better player back.  When Karlsson is traded, this will not be the case.  

So the truth is likely somewhere in the middle and the split is likely somewhat mutual.  It sucks though.  Despite the rough year and potential red flags, I’d be doing everything I could to lock Karlsson up to 8 years at $12M+.

I think Eugene is all about saving money this year, especially if he’s selling the team. He can’t even afford a CEO! And all this about the team being sold this summer is still rumours and nothing concrete has resurfaced. So I’ll wait until actual procedures surface to put some weight on that.
And as I stated before to EV, how can it not be about money if we keep hearing that whoever will trade Kalrsson can lower the return they have to give if they take on bobby Ryan?

This is about money. There is a distinct chance that the owner remains Eugene. They are actively trying to cut costs.

Sure I’m not blind. Could there be a chance that Kalrsson is expressing that he might want to change team? Sure. Why the hell has it come to this situation? Again, this team’s lack of investing in putting together a contender because of budget.
It usually all leads back to Eugene. He’s been torpedoing this franchise for years and the chicken have come home to roost.

I frankly hope we don’t trade kalrsson and that yes the team is sold before anything happens but there’s a damn good chance that everything goes wrong and we are set back years as an organization with players leaving this franchise when given a chance.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

It’s not about money. Just eat up that narrative like other sheep or though.

How you can even say that it isn’t about money is beyond me. If Kalrsson could make 7 mill for next 4 years we wouldn’t be having any trading arguments.
I think a big reason Karlsson’s play has diminished is he’s still playing at a reduced capacity. If his last injury is any indication that he can recover I’ll take the gamble that it is. Plus the fact that the org is willling to take a lesser return if they can tack on Ryan in the deal is a primary indicator of how much money is a factor. If not they’d be buying Ryan out and getting a max return.

Frankly you calling people sheeps is comical when you constantly play the ostrich.

The only reason Karlsson would leave is because he wants to. I don't think the team would not offer him a fair contract.

That being said, I think it's a big blessing in disguise as I don't want to be crippled with a huge contract like that.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

It’s not about money. Just eat up that narrative like other sheep or though.

How you can even say that it isn’t about money is beyond me. If Kalrsson could make 7 mill for next 4 years we wouldn’t be having any trading arguments.
I think a big reason Karlsson’s play has diminished is he’s still playing at a reduced capacity. If his last injury is any indication that he can recover I’ll take the gamble that it is. Plus the fact that the org is willling to take a lesser return if they can tack on Ryan in the deal is a primary indicator of how much money is a factor. If not they’d be buying Ryan out and getting a max return.

Frankly you calling people sheeps is comical when you constantly play the ostrich.

The only reason Karlsson would leave is because he wants to. I don't think the team would not offer him a fair contract.

That being said, I think it's a big blessing in disguise as I don't want to be crippled with a  huge contract like that.

It's an unpopular opinion but I agree with Ev on this. Karlsson will be dominant for 3-4 years of his new contract assuming he rebounds and doesn't get injured. The remaining part of his contract he will be good to average. That's a big cap hit and a lot of money for a budget team that won't compete for a cup for another 3-4 years. Everyone is talking about Tampa as a potential landing spot for him. I honestly think the Isles are a big dark horse:

1) They have the assets to acquire Karlsson:
- Two first round picks this year and next year (Isles + Calgary)
- They have some interesting prospects (Bellows, Ho Sang, Dal Colle, Aho)
- They have Barzal
- The Sens apparently had interest in Nelson earlier in the year

2) They have the need:
- They need to do whatever they can to keep Tavares or at least mitigate his loss
- Snow is on thin ice with the fans (and has made some stupid trades in the past)

3) They have the cap space:
- Eberle will be a UFA when Karlsson is ($6M off the books straight to Karlsson)
- They can absorb Ryan by not re-signing Kulemin ($5.25M) and Chimera ($2.5M) - both of whom are on the IR as it is
- De Haan ($3.3M), Hickey ($3.1M), Seidenberg ($1.25M) don't need to be re-signed if they have Karlsson. Leddy, Boychuk, Karlsson as their top three.
- Josh Bailey can still be re-signed with all the money coming out this year especially if Ottawa takes on a contract (Clutterbuck or Nelson?)

The only way fans hold on is if there is if the team continues to spend and does not become a floor team. I could see Anderson being dealt with EK if it were a deal with the Islanders. Anderson's real salary jumps to 5.5 next year, which isn't too far off of Bobby Ryan's dollar value.

I just don't see how a trade is won at the deadline.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:trading Karl would have nothing to do with money. It would only happen if he doesn't want to sign here

Sure buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Nevermind that they want to include Ryan in any potential deal in exchange for less assets. Cuz that also isn’t about money

It’s not about money. Just eat up that narrative like other sheep or though.

How you can even say that it isn’t about money is beyond me. If Kalrsson could make 7 mill for next 4 years we wouldn’t be having any trading arguments.
I think a big reason Karlsson’s play has diminished is he’s still playing at a reduced capacity. If his last injury is any indication that he can recover I’ll take the gamble that it is. Plus the fact that the org is willling to take a lesser return if they can tack on Ryan in the deal is a primary indicator of how much money is a factor. If not they’d be buying Ryan out and getting a max return.

Frankly you calling people sheeps is comical when you constantly play the ostrich.

The only reason Karlsson would leave is because he wants to. I don't think the team would not offer him a fair contract.

That being said, I think it's a big blessing in disguise as I don't want to be crippled with a  huge contract like that.

If you have the chance to move Ryan and Karlsson and you can get a really good return I think you have to do it.

dennycrane wrote:The only way fans hold on is if there is if the team continues to spend and does not become a floor team. I could see Anderson being dealt with EK if it were a deal with the Islanders. Anderson's real salary jumps to 5.5 next year, which isn't too far off of Bobby Ryan's dollar value.

I just don't see how a trade is won at the deadline.

The difference at the deadline vs in the off-season is that the team gets two cup runs with Karl, not one.