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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Maybe today it is but there could very well be more clarity after the townhalls this week. If the town halls are going to communicate a holding pattern then I agree we will not make the playoffs.

But if they communicate the message of infusing some kids into the lineup, re-signing Karlsson Stone + Duchene, moving some bodies out, and finding Karlsson a partner then I think Ottawa will be back in the playoffs next season.

As far as I’m concerned these town halls are nothing more than damage control. Making the season ticket holders that they’re part of the process. But they aren’t. Whatever the fans say isn’t going to budge them from what they’ve planned. If anything they will be used to convince fans of their plan.

Plus they won’t be able to truthfully answer anything regarding resigning kalrsson. Smoke and mirrors.

Round One of the Town Halls is complete. Basically, Boucher and/or some of his staff are getting the axe and it will be Erik’s fault when he leaves because he wouldn’t accept the Sens “fair offer”. I’m sure we all suspect the fair offer will probably be around 8x8.

Lagoon wrote:Round One of the Town Halls is complete. Basically, Boucher and/or some of his staff are getting the axe and it will be Erik’s fault when he leaves because he wouldn’t accept the Sens “fair offer”. I’m sure we all suspect the fair offer will probably be around 8x8.

Yeah and the org is definitely going on a rebuild of some sorts. No answers of how they can rebuild effectively without a first next year. I mean, I think you could but lots of trades out the door.

And it makes sense that karlsson isn’t gone by the draft. They’ll trade him when he can agree to an extension with another team. 
Yeah even with a fair offer, the damage is done from the owner mismanaging the team. He probably wants to leave. I hope I’m wrong

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:The biggest problems I have with firing boucher is you’re telling players they get to decide and dictate who coaches them.

I didn’t like many of vouchers utilization either but I’m not sure who the sens could get on the cheap(because that’s how it’s gonna be) to help this team along. 

As far the direction of the team it’s a little hard to tell right now. We lose karlsson it’s avretool at the very least if not complete rebuild. If they actually listen to the town halls then they might just retool and take this as an off year. IMO the ship has sailed and they will cut ties with as much salary and go the full rebuild. The only hick up is that they won’t have their own 1st next year but dorion will spin a story about their ability to get more 1sts. Which they will I’m tradibg karlsson. 
Btw, I dislike this scenario. But it’s the sens way.

They're not doing that. If they were, they would have moved out Smith, Hoffman, Pageau, etc. at the deadline and they would have traded Turris for futures. They are not selling off and rebuilding.

Seems like you’re dead wrong. They are rebuilding.

Apparently Melnyk said at the townhall this morning that he'd love to find someone to buy the team so he could sit back and watch. Probably a joke, but without any proper media coverage or seeing it for ourselves, it's hard to get the context.

I understand the plan to be use Erik Karlsson for next season to help get the Colorado pick out of the Top 10, but then trade him at the deadline and blame him for not accepting their fair offer on July 1st. Melnyk’s opening monolaugh was atrocious.

tim1_2 wrote:Apparently Melnyk said at the townhall this morning that he'd love to find someone to buy the team so he could sit back and watch.  Probably a joke, but without any proper media coverage or seeing it for ourselves, it's hard to get the context.

Town Hall #2: Basically, he’d love to have someone buy the team...but 
Town Hall #1: The team is not for sale.

Everything I’ve heard and read is a gong show.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:The biggest problems I have with firing boucher is you’re telling players they get to decide and dictate who coaches them.

I didn’t like many of vouchers utilization either but I’m not sure who the sens could get on the cheap(because that’s how it’s gonna be) to help this team along. 

As far the direction of the team it’s a little hard to tell right now. We lose karlsson it’s avretool at the very least if not complete rebuild. If they actually listen to the town halls then they might just retool and take this as an off year. IMO the ship has sailed and they will cut ties with as much salary and go the full rebuild. The only hick up is that they won’t have their own 1st next year but dorion will spin a story about their ability to get more 1sts. Which they will I’m tradibg karlsson. 
Btw, I dislike this scenario. But it’s the sens way.

They're not doing that. If they were, they would have moved out Smith, Hoffman, Pageau, etc. at the deadline and they would have traded Turris for futures. They are not selling off and rebuilding.

Seems like you’re dead wrong. They are rebuilding.

No, I am not wrong at all. When I said rebuilding, I meant trade off a ton of players and start fresh like the Leafs did. That's a true rebuild. A full rebuild, like you said. The Sens will not be doing that. You can guarantee it. They will be trading players and adding new faces. They are retooling. This will not be a teardown.

Flo The Action wrote:

Lagoon wrote:Round One of the Town Halls is complete. Basically, Boucher and/or some of his staff are getting the axe and it will be Erik’s fault when he leaves because he wouldn’t accept the Sens “fair offer”. I’m sure we all suspect the fair offer will probably be around 8x8.

Yeah and the org is definitely going on a rebuild of some sorts. No answers of how they can rebuild effectively without a first next year. I mean, I think you could but lots of trades out the door.

And it makes sense that karlsson isn’t gone by the draft. They’ll trade him when he can agree to an extension with another team. 
Yeah even with a fair offer, the damage is done from the owner mismanaging the team. He probably wants to leave. I hope I’m wrong

Clear difference in "rebuild of some sorts" and "Full rebuild". They will not be tearing it down.

Melnyk said yesterday we won't be winning the Cup next year, but the plan is to compete for it in 3 to 4 years. What exactly this means from a roster standpoint, the next few months will tell.

Sounds like Dorion challenged Hoffman in the exit interview to "be better". I'm not sure Hoffman is the type to respond positively to something like this, but we'll see if he changes at all next year.

I actually thought the townhall did more damage than good. My takeaways:

- A three to four year plan lines up with the plan to move to LeBreton. They will shed salary and call it a 'rebuild' until Melnyk sells the team to maximize his return. The lost money via parking revenues will be made up by being a bottom feeder salary wise. People will not go to the games. Saving $6 in parking isn't worth the price of admission to watch a team not be competitive after losing their star player. They missed the mark on this and need to stop thinking fans are stupid.

- It's a clear sign that Karlsson will be gone. In 3-4 years they'd have wasted Karlsson in his prime. What's the point of having him here if his best years are gone by the time they're ready to compete? They will tender him an offer (my guess 8 x $9M - low ball offer) and when he doesn't want to sign for that he will be traded. No point paying Karlsson $19/yr when he's 33+ while his best years are behind him. Alfredsson is the kid's mentor. Alfie left. No reason to expect Karlsson to take a hometown discount.

- They said Karlsson will not be traded at the draft. They're not looking for draft picks this year. They're looking for picks next year to make up for the Duchene trade. He will be traded after the draft and/or at the start of the season so that they can say they gave him an offer and put the blame on him. They will not risk losing him for nothing. The eventual trade will be for futures and will fit in with the 'rebuild' plan.

- Salaries will be cut and UFAs will not be added. If the plan is 3-4 years then they may as well let Chabot and whoever else develop. No point adding a LHD for Karlsson. I see Claesson not being qualified, Wideman walking as a UFA, and Ceci and Smith will be traded for picks/prospects.

- Ryan, Burrows, and Gaborik will not be bought out. It's a waste of money to buy them out especially if they need to hit the cap floor without Karlsson on the books. My guess is Gaborik is forced to go on LTIR or retire. Burrows will still have a 4th line / healthy scratch role, and Ryan will be relegated to third line.

- The kids will play. There is a reason Ottawa went nuts and added a lot of AHL depth this season (Leier, Scarfo, Sturtz, Moutrey, Pokka, Gustavsson, Luchuk, etc). They will also have Batherson, Formenton, Brown, and Luchuk eligible to play in the AHL next season. I expect Gagne, White, Chlapik, Englund, Jaros, to get real NHL chances next season.

- Boucher will be fired. I think they're waiting for the fallout of more coaches from the playoffs, for example if Washington gets eliminated first round, if LA gets eliminated, etc. Not a lot of good coaches out there right now...

Not a good time to be a Sens fan right now.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I actually thought the townhall did more damage than good. My takeaways:

- A three to four year plan lines up with the plan to move to LeBreton. They will shed salary and call it a 'rebuild' until Melnyk sells the team to maximize his return. The lost money via parking revenues will be made up by being a bottom feeder salary wise. People will not go to the games. Saving $6 in parking isn't worth the price of admission to watch a team not be competitive after losing their star player. They missed the mark on this and need to stop thinking fans are stupid.

- It's a clear sign that Karlsson will be gone. In 3-4 years they'd have wasted Karlsson in his prime. What's the point of having him here if his best years are gone by the time they're ready to compete? They will tender him an offer (my guess 8 x $9M - low ball offer) and when he doesn't want to sign for that he will be traded. No point paying Karlsson $19/yr when he's 33+ while his best years are behind him. Alfredsson is the kid's mentor. Alfie left. No reason to expect Karlsson to take a hometown discount.

- They said Karlsson will not be traded at the draft. They're not looking for draft picks this year. They're looking for picks next year to make up for the Duchene trade. He will be traded after the draft and/or at the start of the season so that they can say they gave him an offer and put the blame on him. They will not risk losing him for nothing. The eventual trade will be for futures and will fit in with the 'rebuild' plan.

- Salaries will be cut and UFAs will not be added. If the plan is 3-4 years then they may as well let Chabot and whoever else develop. No point adding a LHD for Karlsson. I see Claesson not being qualified, Wideman walking as a UFA, and Ceci and Smith will be traded for picks/prospects.

- Ryan, Burrows, and Gaborik will not be bought out. It's a waste of money to buy them out especially if they need to hit the cap floor without Karlsson on the books. My guess is Gaborik is forced to go on LTIR or retire. Burrows will still have a 4th line / healthy scratch role, and Ryan will be relegated to third line.

- The kids will play. There is a reason Ottawa went nuts and added a lot of AHL depth this season (Leier, Scarfo, Sturtz, Moutrey, Pokka, Gustavsson, Luchuk, etc). They will also have Batherson, Formenton, Brown, and Luchuk eligible to play in the AHL next season. I expect Gagne, White, Chlapik, Englund, Jaros, to get real NHL chances next season.

- Boucher will be fired. I think they're waiting for the fallout of more coaches from the playoffs, for example if Washington gets eliminated first round, if LA gets eliminated, etc. Not a lot of good coaches out there right now...

Not a good time to be a Sens fan right now.

You are reaching on many of these comments, but particularly the bolded Karlsson comment. Nothing said yesterday is "a clear sign". It's nothing that hasn't been said before. If Karlsson is truly invested in the Sens and the city, he will take 10 million and leave it at that. There's no reason for him to go anywhere else, especially due to his wife and her family.

And then the Boucher comment is another one you're reaching at. If they were 100% going to fire him, he would be already gone.

It's amazing how people hear what they want to hear so it fits the narrative that's already in their heads.

FYI Formenton is not eligible for the AHL next year.

The Euge also threw cold water all over Lebreton and the possible move today...although that is probably more of a negotiation tactic than anything else.

There's so many variables right now that make it very hard to predict anything. The one thing I'm fairly sure about is that Karlsson will be traded, and this will be another PR nightmare for the Sens. That said, it may not even be the worst thing for the team in the long-run, but that entirely depends on what they get back.

The other thing I'm fairly sure about now is that it looks like Eugene is not selling the team this summer. This is very disappointing to me as I don't trust him at all. I can't imagine he'd be doing these town halls if he was on his way out.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I actually thought the townhall did more damage than good. My takeaways:

- A three to four year plan lines up with the plan to move to LeBreton. They will shed salary and call it a 'rebuild' until Melnyk sells the team to maximize his return. The lost money via parking revenues will be made up by being a bottom feeder salary wise. People will not go to the games. Saving $6 in parking isn't worth the price of admission to watch a team not be competitive after losing their star player. They missed the mark on this and need to stop thinking fans are stupid.

- It's a clear sign that Karlsson will be gone. In 3-4 years they'd have wasted Karlsson in his prime. What's the point of having him here if his best years are gone by the time they're ready to compete? They will tender him an offer (my guess 8 x $9M - low ball offer) and when he doesn't want to sign for that he will be traded. No point paying Karlsson $19/yr when he's 33+ while his best years are behind him. Alfredsson is the kid's mentor. Alfie left. No reason to expect Karlsson to take a hometown discount.

- They said Karlsson will not be traded at the draft. They're not looking for draft picks this year. They're looking for picks next year to make up for the Duchene trade. He will be traded after the draft and/or at the start of the season so that they can say they gave him an offer and put the blame on him. They will not risk losing him for nothing. The eventual trade will be for futures and will fit in with the 'rebuild' plan.

- Salaries will be cut and UFAs will not be added. If the plan is 3-4 years then they may as well let Chabot and whoever else develop. No point adding a LHD for Karlsson. I see Claesson not being qualified, Wideman walking as a UFA, and Ceci and Smith will be traded for picks/prospects.

- Ryan, Burrows, and Gaborik will not be bought out. It's a waste of money to buy them out especially if they need to hit the cap floor without Karlsson on the books. My guess is Gaborik is forced to go on LTIR or retire. Burrows will still have a 4th line / healthy scratch role, and Ryan will be relegated to third line.

- The kids will play. There is a reason Ottawa went nuts and added a lot of AHL depth this season (Leier, Scarfo, Sturtz, Moutrey, Pokka, Gustavsson, Luchuk, etc). They will also have Batherson, Formenton, Brown, and Luchuk eligible to play in the AHL next season. I expect Gagne, White, Chlapik, Englund, Jaros, to get real NHL chances next season.

- Boucher will be fired. I think they're waiting for the fallout of more coaches from the playoffs, for example if Washington gets eliminated first round, if LA gets eliminated, etc. Not a lot of good coaches out there right now...

Not a good time to be a Sens fan right now.

Yup that’s the way i feel. And Ev will make a point that they are spending when they give a contract to some 2 million dollar player this summer.
I think you’ll easily see the logic behind what they are doing when they hover at the cap floor next summer. I think the idea is to no finish last either since losing our 1st rounder will be gone.

I’m also not convinced we’ll resign duchene but I’m sure the org will try to. Another sign will be what contract stone winds up with. If it heads to arbitration it’s a terrible sign.

They are totally going to offer a contract to kalrsson. Most likely lowball him but even if they didn’t. This org is trying to rebuild when they should have been adding quality players and going for it.
But that would have cost this org too much. This should be a blip on the radar but it’s just that running a team at full value isn’t a budgetary feasibility for Melnyk.

Can’t wait til he sells. Like Tim though, I doubt that it’s this summer.

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I actually thought the townhall did more damage than good. My takeaways:

- A three to four year plan lines up with the plan to move to LeBreton. They will shed salary and call it a 'rebuild' until Melnyk sells the team to maximize his return. The lost money via parking revenues will be made up by being a bottom feeder salary wise. People will not go to the games. Saving $6 in parking isn't worth the price of admission to watch a team not be competitive after losing their star player. They missed the mark on this and need to stop thinking fans are stupid.

- It's a clear sign that Karlsson will be gone. In 3-4 years they'd have wasted Karlsson in his prime. What's the point of having him here if his best years are gone by the time they're ready to compete? They will tender him an offer (my guess 8 x $9M - low ball offer) and when he doesn't want to sign for that he will be traded. No point paying Karlsson $19/yr when he's 33+ while his best years are behind him. Alfredsson is the kid's mentor. Alfie left. No reason to expect Karlsson to take a hometown discount.

- They said Karlsson will not be traded at the draft. They're not looking for draft picks this year. They're looking for picks next year to make up for the Duchene trade. He will be traded after the draft and/or at the start of the season so that they can say they gave him an offer and put the blame on him. They will not risk losing him for nothing. The eventual trade will be for futures and will fit in with the 'rebuild' plan.

- Salaries will be cut and UFAs will not be added. If the plan is 3-4 years then they may as well let Chabot and whoever else develop. No point adding a LHD for Karlsson. I see Claesson not being qualified, Wideman walking as a UFA, and Ceci and Smith will be traded for picks/prospects.

- Ryan, Burrows, and Gaborik will not be bought out. It's a waste of money to buy them out especially if they need to hit the cap floor without Karlsson on the books. My guess is Gaborik is forced to go on LTIR or retire. Burrows will still have a 4th line / healthy scratch role, and Ryan will be relegated to third line.

- The kids will play. There is a reason Ottawa went nuts and added a lot of AHL depth this season (Leier, Scarfo, Sturtz, Moutrey, Pokka, Gustavsson, Luchuk, etc). They will also have Batherson, Formenton, Brown, and Luchuk eligible to play in the AHL next season. I expect Gagne, White, Chlapik, Englund, Jaros, to get real NHL chances next season.

- Boucher will be fired. I think they're waiting for the fallout of more coaches from the playoffs, for example if Washington gets eliminated first round, if LA gets eliminated, etc. Not a lot of good coaches out there right now...

Not a good time to be a Sens fan right now.

Yup that’s the way i feel. And Ev will make a point that they are spending when they give a contract to some 2 million dollar player this summer.
I think you’ll easily see the logic behind what they are doing when they hover at the cap floor next summer. I think the idea is to no finish last either since losing our 1st rounder will be gone.

I’m also not convinced we’ll resign duchene but I’m sure the org will try to. Another sign will be what contract stone winds up with. If it heads to arbitration it’s a terrible sign.

They are totally going to offer a contract to kalrsson. Most likely lowball him but even if they didn’t. This org is trying to rebuild when they should have been adding quality players and going for it.
But that would have cost this org too much. This should be a blip on the radar but it’s just that running a team at full value isn’t a budgetary feasibility for Melnyk.

Can’t wait til he sells. Like Tim though, I doubt that it’s this summer.

No, I will say that when both Stone and Duchene are locked up to long deals. Which is going to happen. Duchene isn't a liar. He's committed to signing here long term.

You pessimists will be proven wrong soon enough. This is a speed bump in a marathon, that's all it is. Whether Karlsson stays or not is irrelevant to our success, IMO. I don't think he's as important as people think he is at this point in time. He's not the player he once was.

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I actually thought the townhall did more damage than good. My takeaways:

- A three to four year plan lines up with the plan to move to LeBreton. They will shed salary and call it a 'rebuild' until Melnyk sells the team to maximize his return. The lost money via parking revenues will be made up by being a bottom feeder salary wise. People will not go to the games. Saving $6 in parking isn't worth the price of admission to watch a team not be competitive after losing their star player. They missed the mark on this and need to stop thinking fans are stupid.

- It's a clear sign that Karlsson will be gone. In 3-4 years they'd have wasted Karlsson in his prime. What's the point of having him here if his best years are gone by the time they're ready to compete? They will tender him an offer (my guess 8 x $9M - low ball offer) and when he doesn't want to sign for that he will be traded. No point paying Karlsson $19/yr when he's 33+ while his best years are behind him. Alfredsson is the kid's mentor. Alfie left. No reason to expect Karlsson to take a hometown discount.

- They said Karlsson will not be traded at the draft. They're not looking for draft picks this year. They're looking for picks next year to make up for the Duchene trade. He will be traded after the draft and/or at the start of the season so that they can say they gave him an offer and put the blame on him. They will not risk losing him for nothing. The eventual trade will be for futures and will fit in with the 'rebuild' plan.

- Salaries will be cut and UFAs will not be added. If the plan is 3-4 years then they may as well let Chabot and whoever else develop. No point adding a LHD for Karlsson. I see Claesson not being qualified, Wideman walking as a UFA, and Ceci and Smith will be traded for picks/prospects.

- Ryan, Burrows, and Gaborik will not be bought out. It's a waste of money to buy them out especially if they need to hit the cap floor without Karlsson on the books. My guess is Gaborik is forced to go on LTIR or retire. Burrows will still have a 4th line / healthy scratch role, and Ryan will be relegated to third line.

- The kids will play. There is a reason Ottawa went nuts and added a lot of AHL depth this season (Leier, Scarfo, Sturtz, Moutrey, Pokka, Gustavsson, Luchuk, etc). They will also have Batherson, Formenton, Brown, and Luchuk eligible to play in the AHL next season. I expect Gagne, White, Chlapik, Englund, Jaros, to get real NHL chances next season.

- Boucher will be fired. I think they're waiting for the fallout of more coaches from the playoffs, for example if Washington gets eliminated first round, if LA gets eliminated, etc. Not a lot of good coaches out there right now...

Not a good time to be a Sens fan right now.

Yup that’s the way i feel. And Ev will make a point that they are spending when they give a contract to some 2 million dollar player this summer.
I think you’ll easily see the logic behind what they are doing when they hover at the cap floor next summer. I think the idea is to no finish last either since losing our 1st rounder will be gone.

I’m also not convinced we’ll resign duchene but I’m sure the org will try to. Another sign will be what contract stone winds up with. If it heads to arbitration it’s a terrible sign.

They are totally going to offer a contract to kalrsson. Most likely lowball him but even if they didn’t. This org is trying to rebuild when they should have been adding quality players and going for it.
But that would have cost this org too much. This should be a blip on the radar but it’s just that running a team at full value isn’t a budgetary feasibility for Melnyk.

Can’t wait til he sells. Like Tim though, I doubt that it’s this summer.

I don't have a crystal ball so ya, I am reaching on a few of these points. But from what I took from yesterday's town hall this is how I see things shaking out. I am sorry but if someone offered me more money to live in a better city, with better hockey operations, and a chance to win then I'm taking it. So would 99.9% of people. Athletes generally don't care about the city they play for as much as we think they do. They sign contracts based on money and security, and even then sometimes money and security aren't enough to woo players to sign somewhere. I think the fan base as a collective needs to take Karlsson off this 'legendary' pedestal we've put him on. Just because he's one of the best defencemen in the league doesn't make him the best human in the league. He's going to sign wherever he wants to play and at whatever dollar value he wants (within reason). Even if we can offer him an additional year on his contract he can make more money signing a 7 year deal for an extra million a year more in a state that has lower income tax. The extra year to Canadian teams ultimately becomes irrelevant. He's going to go where he and his wife want to live for the next 7-8 years. Via trade he loses control of where he could go. I imagine that's what's scaring him right now. Picking up and being traded somewhere you don't want to play for long-term is

As for coaching, Dorion earlier in the year stated that Boucher's job is safe. He is now saying his job is under review. And that history can repeat itself. This sounds to me that Boucher has lost the room and Dorion/Melnyk are debating giving Boucher a short leash and an opportunity to rectify this. The reality is Boucher is being scapegoated. Dorion did virtually nothing this past year to improve the team from a year ago but Boucher is taking the blame for the team under performing. I think that's a little unfair on Boucher. He can only use what he has. As much as I dislike Ceci I'd rather he play tough minutes than Harpur, Boro, Claesson, etc. Dorion is the one who brings in players - not Boucher. People forget that.