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PTFlea wrote:

wprager wrote:Listen to the Dorion interview. @TSN1200 probably tweeted a link.  I think the 2nd year of that extension is the overpayment. I really like Burrows, he's hard to play against in big games. Good point by Dorion about him being on the room when guys like White come up.  And Giving up Dahlen is of little consequence. Perron is a similar player, won league MVP in the Q, not that different from Allsvenskan.

Is the Q similar to Allsvenskan?  I doubt that personally, but I don't know enough to comment.

Well they are different. I think the allsvenskan actually has men playing in it but it's not the same level. Probably has better prospects in the Q and also ice surface would be different. I think I would prefer a prospect to develop in the Q than in the allsvenskan. Just in terms of getting used to the right typeof play. I'd be interested to see how dahlem plays outside of his league.
He seemed to struggle a bit playing against the best in the WJC in terms of aggressiveness and size of the ice.
Doesn't mean he can't learn it but I still say people think he looked good because of his game against Latvia.

This could be another Petersson all over again.

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Or Duchene.  

I don't think we can really afford Duchesne past the next 2 years.  Stone, Turris and Karlsson all need new deals as well as a starting goalie.  Pretty sure Duchesne won't sign anywhere for less than 7M.  

A lot can change from season to season, I haven't Cussed around with cap numbers in so long, but if there's a will, there's a way. I'd work that out when the time comes.

PTFlea wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Or Duchene.  

I don't think we can really afford Duchesne past the next 2 years.  Stone, Turris and Karlsson all need new deals as well as a starting goalie.  Pretty sure Duchesne won't sign anywhere for less than 7M.  

A lot can change from season to season, I haven't Cussed around with cap numbers in so long, but if there's a will, there's a way.  I'd work that out when the time comes.

Like Izzerman did just this very day? Or Chicago does every single year? Yeah, I think it's doable.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Or Duchene.  

I don't think we can really afford Duchesne past the next 2 years.  Stone, Turris and Karlsson all need new deals as well as a starting goalie.  Pretty sure Duchesne won't sign anywhere for less than 7M.  

A lot can change from season to season, I haven't Cussed around with cap numbers in so long, but if there's a will, there's a way.  I'd work that out when the time comes.

Like Izzerman did just this very day? Or Chicago does every single year? Yeah, I think it's doable.

Sure it is.

PTFlea wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Or Duchene.  

I don't think we can really afford Duchesne past the next 2 years.  Stone, Turris and Karlsson all need new deals as well as a starting goalie.  Pretty sure Duchesne won't sign anywhere for less than 7M.  

A lot can change from season to season, I haven't Cussed around with cap numbers in so long, but if there's a will, there's a way.  I'd work that out when the time comes.

Like Izzerman did just this very day? Or Chicago does every single year? Yeah, I think it's doable.

Sure it is.

Yeah there's always a way, especially with talented players. You may lose one if you have to, but not for nothing, and sometimes you'll get quite the return.

I think yzerman pretty much solved all his problems by dealing bishop and then filpula.

I think it's interesting how Montréal got very split reviews from the deadline. A few people said they got slower but stronger. Slower is not want you want to get in the east right now. We've got a few games coming up against them. We should be able to either squash them or outrun them. Either or. Should be fun

Why is everyone so hot for Duchesne, he has broken 60 pts twice in his career and over the last 3 years his numbers are eerily similar to Bobby Ryan.

Sure the Allsvenskan league has older players, but the better ones will be in the SEL or KHL or NHL. Also, with the bigger ice surface and less emphasis on the rough stuff I think the Q a tougher league for an undersized forward to dominate. Does any of this translate to NHL success? Probably not. But at this point in time I'd say the two are similar, with Perron a year closer to the NHL.

What was wrong with my assessment of the Montreal moves? They got bigger, no question. The guys they got are not speedsters, again, no question. They are all bottom six players.

Biggest issue in Montreal is strength down the middle. Galchenyuk, Danault (undersized rookie), Plekanec, McCarron (big but not an NHL player yet).

Two rooks, a declining player and Galchenyuk. Their biggest area of need and they did nothing to address it.

Oglethorpe wrote:Why is everyone so hot for Duchesne, he has broken 60 pts twice in his career and over the last 3 years his numbers are eerily similar to Bobby Ryan.

He's a faster, more talented version of turris who's ridiculous in thr faceoff dot and can play C or wing, where's the comparison to a slow player like ryan?

Duchene and McKinnon are the best players on the team whereas I'd rank Hoffman, Stone, Karlsson, and Turris easily before Ryan. If you were to put Duchene on a line with any of those two players, he'd easily triple Ryan's production.

wprager wrote:What was wrong with my assessment of the Montreal moves? They got bigger, no question. The guys they got are not speedsters, again, no question. They are all bottom six players.

Biggest issue in Montreal is strength down the middle. Galchenyuk, Danault (undersized rookie), Plekanec, McCarron (big but not an NHL player yet).

Two rooks, a declining player and Galchenyuk.  Their biggest area of need and they did nothing to address it.

The problem with Montreal is that they have a two-year window to win and the moves they did addressed size and depth. They didn't address their core problem - the fact that they're not a good team. Remove Carey Price from the equation and what are you left with?

They remind me a lot of the Raptors actually. A team with a lot of depth and pressure to win, but are too afraid to make the big move to put them over the top because they don't want to mortgage the future. If you look now, the Raptors are falling quickly down the rankings because younger teams around them have become better, and they all still need to go through LeBron to win. It's the same with Montreal. They're falling down the rankings - Ottawa, Toronto, Florida, Boston will all be better than them next year while Columbus, Pittsburgh, New York, and Washington remain the class of the East. The Raps will never beat Cleveland by adding depth players. Montreal will not beat Pitt and Washington by adding Ott. They needed to go all-in and didn't. I expect Bergevin will be out of a job by end of next season.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

wprager wrote:What was wrong with my assessment of the Montreal moves? They got bigger, no question. The guys they got are not speedsters, again, no question. They are all bottom six players.

Biggest issue in Montreal is strength down the middle. Galchenyuk, Danault (undersized rookie), Plekanec, McCarron (big but not an NHL player yet).

Two rooks, a declining player and Galchenyuk.  Their biggest area of need and they did nothing to address it.

The problem with Montreal is that they have a two-year window to win and the moves they did addressed size and depth. They didn't address their core problem - the fact that they're not a good team. Remove Carey Price from the equation and what are you left with?

They remind me a lot of the Raptors actually. A team with a lot of depth and pressure to win, but are too afraid to make the big move to put them over the top because they don't want to mortgage the future. If you look now, the Raptors are falling quickly down the rankings because younger teams around them have become better, and they all still need to go through LeBron to win. It's the same with Montreal. They're falling down the rankings - Ottawa, Toronto, Florida, Boston will all be better than them next year while Columbus, Pittsburgh, New York, and Washington remain the class of the East. The Raps will never beat Cleveland by adding depth players. Montreal will not beat Pitt and Washington by adding Ott. They needed to go all-in and didn't. I expect Bergevin will be out of a job by end of next season.

Beside Price -- who can be the best goalie in the world -- they have a 30+ goal winger in Pacioretty, a (potential) 30+ goal center in Galchenyuk and a rugged power-forward with moves winger in Radulov. On the back-end they have a premiere, if aging, PP setup man in Markov and another top-pairing D-man with the hardest shot in the league in Weber. They have one of the better agitators in the league, although Gallagher is having a tough year. Overall the team *was* one of the fastest in the league up-front. They are still fast but their bottom six has gotten bigger but slower.

Still the biggest need is size down the middle. Galchenyuk is not overly large (says he's slightly over 200 lbs but I find that hard to believe) then you have Plekanec, who is old and small. Their other centers are Danault (good, but a rookie) and McCarron (huge but a rookie and, IMO, not cut out to be an NHL center).

If they moved Plekanec for a 2LC they could move Danault to C3, where he really belongs until he gets better, then probably move McCarron to the wing where he can crash and bang and not worry about playing C (a 4LC to replace him could be found very easily).

PTFlea wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Why is everyone so hot for Duchesne, he has broken 60 pts twice in his career and over the last 3 years his numbers are eerily similar to Bobby Ryan.

He's a faster, more talented version of turris who's ridiculous in thr faceoff dot and can play C or wing, where's the comparison to a slow player like ryan?

The comparison is in their production. If he put up his numers here at that price tag he would be vilified.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Duchene and McKinnon are the best players on the team whereas I'd rank Hoffman, Stone, Karlsson, and Turris easily before Ryan. If you were to put Duchene on a line with any of those two players, he'd easily triple Ryan's production.

So you are saying he has potential

I don't think anyone here was suggesting that Ryan isn't the weakest link in the top-six (although, personally, I still think he is a better fit in the top-six that Dzingel, despite his lackluster offensive stats -- big body, great passer, wish he would shoot more).  The issue is one of decreasing production.  Duchene is no-longer a 60-point player just like Ryan is no-longer a 30+ goal scorer.  In Ryan's case you can argue that injuries have taken their toll (his last year in Anaheim he battled a stomach virus in the summer, dropped something like 20 lbs; first season in Ottawa he was doing great then dropped off around the middle/end of November, ended up having a sports hernia surgery in the off-season; last two years it's been broken fingers).  Impossible to tell if he is brittle or needs better conditioning or better equipment -- probably a combination of all three.  I'd like to think that Ryan isn't finished yet, although I don't think he will ever live up to that contract.

So, even though I am still somewhat optimistic that Ryan can put all those injuries behind him and get back to being a productive forward, I'd have to say that, if he was playing for another team, I would not want him here at that cap hit.

Similarly with Duchene.  He is not a big guy and that body has taken a lot of abuse.  551 games is a lot.  Do you feel confident that he could get back to scoring 30+ goals?  Especially playing in the East which has become tougher.  Because, let's face it, he will still want to get paid like a 40-goal scorer.

All that said, I'd definitely prefer Duchene at $6M versus Ryan at $7.25M, but it's not like we are getting this as a choice.  It's more like Duchene at $6M, plus Ryan's buyout or retained salary, plus losing Ceci or White and a 1st rounder and someone else.

Duchene, by himself, at $6M -- perhaps worth the cost of Ceci+White+1st (too much IMO, but could be what the market will bear). But then you add in the cost of moving Ryan.

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