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GM Hockey » Ottawa Senators » GDT: Wings @ Sens@ Capitals - Right &^%&% NOW!

GDT: Wings @ Sens@ Capitals - Right &^%&% NOW!

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PTFlea
LeCaptain
Flo The Action
SeawaySensFan
wprager
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Flo The Action


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I think everyone at the time thought the Smith deal was good. Greening was a little much but he was bringing so much in the playoffs. He might again. And it's not like we're against the cap. The only thing I would reproach Murray is maybe not addressing our need on D, but no one is perfect. Especially with some of the moves he's made.
Bringing guys and resinning them like Turris and Ryan are huge for a small franchise.

wprager


Administrator
Administrator

Flo The Action wrote:I think everyone at the time thought the Smith deal was good. Greening was a little much but he was bringing so much in the playoffs.  He might again. And it's not like we're against the cap.  The only thing I would reproach Murray is maybe not addressing our need on D, but no one is perfect. Especially with some of the moves he's made.
Bringing guys and resinning them like Turris and Ryan are huge for a small franchise.

I was not at all upset about the Smith deal, but he's been really, really terrible. It's not so much that they gave him too much money it's that (in hindsight) they should have either traded him or given him just a 1-year extension. Force him to keep proving himself.

As for Greening, I don't think there was a single person here who thought that was an OK extension.

As for the D, we would have been fine if Methot was healthy.

Actually, with Methot and Michalek, I wonder if there's something wrong with our medical staff?

PTFlea


Co-Founder
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I didn't mind the greening extension at the time. I thought it was slightly high, but it wasn't a big deal.

Smith was a good deal at the time, but damn he's been useless.

I think you look at a cash strapped team this summer and try to get a cup winning forward. Again, Chicago makes a lot of sense with hossa or sharp. I still like the makeup of this team, but we early need a top line winger and a top pairing Dman. Hopefully we can find one of each somewhere.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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I actually can't imagine someone not liking the makeup of the Sens with Boro, Ceci, Gryba, Cowen, Turris, Mac, stone, Hoffman, zbad, lazar, Lehner all young and under control or signed. This team has the makings of a powerful team for a long time, but we need another Ryan and a healthy Methot.

Oglethorpe

Oglethorpe
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wprager wrote:If you look at the players the Sens have drafted:
- Lehner in goal
- Karlsson/Ceci/Cowen (top-four potential)
- Borowiecki/Gryba/Wiercioch (bottom four)
- Zibanejad/Hoffman/Stone (top-six)

That's not a bad start.  Then you add:
- Turris/Ryan/Anderson/Chiasson/Methot (if he was playing) via trade
- MacArthur/Legwand as UFA signing

If you check who was available at center in the summer, Legwand was the best of a bad crop (if you ignore those high-end guys who had no interest in signing with Ottawa).  

Where the Sens have repeatedly made mistakes is in re-signing current players -- Michalek, Phillips, Greening, Smith.  Either too much, too long or simply should have let them go.

I mean, imagine if Michalek was let go and Greening and Smith were traded for picks instead of being extended.  We'd have kept Pageau and had room to bring up Peumpel and Prince.
In what world are Puempel and Prince ready to play in the NHL.

Oglethorpe

Oglethorpe
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SpezDispensed wrote:I actually can't imagine someone not liking the makeup of the Sens with Boro, Ceci, Gryba, Cowen, Turris, Mac, stone, Hoffman, zbad, lazar, Lehner all young and under control or signed.  This team has the makings of a powerful team for a long time, but we need another Ryan and a healthy Methot.
i wouldn't mind a little more mobility. Maybe Wideman for Gryba when he is ready.

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
All-Star
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wprager wrote:2009 they picked Cowen with Pajarvi, Ellis, Kassian and some others available.  I won't disagree that Cowen hasn't (yet) lived up to the promise but I don't think there are game-breakers in the list that followed him.

Ryan O'Reilly and Tyson Barrie, both Avs picks, Darcy Kuemper. No real gamebreakers as of now that would make Cowen a head scratcher. Plus I think Cowen is gonna end up being better than all 3 in about a couple years.

spader

spader
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Flo The Action wrote:I think everyone at the time thought the Smith deal was good. Greening was a little much but he was bringing so much in the playoffs.  He might again. And it's not like we're against the cap.  The only thing I would reproach Murray is maybe not addressing our need on D, but no one is perfect. Especially with some of the moves he's made.
Bringing guys and resinning them like Turris and Ryan are huge for a small franchise.

I sure did. I thought Smith was just gonna get better. He still could turn a corner, but he hasn't done it yet.

wprager

wprager
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Oglethorpe wrote:
In what world are Puempel and Prince ready to play in the NHL.  

Same world where Greening is worth $2.65M. Or Michalek at $4M. You really want to tell me that they would do worse than what Greening our Smith have been?

Don't forget that we are carrying 13 forwards so only Pageau and one of Peumpel/Prince would be in the lineup barring injuries.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Oglethorpe

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wprager wrote:
Oglethorpe wrote:
In what world are Puempel and Prince ready to play in the NHL.  

Same world where Greening is worth $2.65M.  Or Michalek at $4M.   You really want to tell me that they would do worse than what Greening our Smith have been?

Don't forget that we are carrying 13 forwards so only Pageau and one of Peumpel/Prince would be in the lineup barring injuries.
If you bring them up to early you run the risk of killing their confidence and ruining their development. Stop worrying about today. So we miss the playoffs, who really cares.

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
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Oglethorpe wrote:
wprager wrote:
Oglethorpe wrote:
In what world are Puempel and Prince ready to play in the NHL.  

Same world where Greening is worth $2.65M.  Or Michalek at $4M.   You really want to tell me that they would do worse than what Greening our Smith have been?

Don't forget that we are carrying 13 forwards so only Pageau and one of Peumpel/Prince would be in the lineup barring injuries.
If you bring them up to early you run the risk of killing their confidence and ruining their development.   Stop worrying about today.  So we miss the playoffs, who really cares.  

I cares, Hogeltorp!!! Missing the playoffs sucks. Farter

wprager

wprager
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Also there is a difference between bringing someone in and expect them to produce in the top six and bringing the, in to ride shotgun on the 4th line.

Pageu came in and had some success already. Stone and Hoffman are producing on a fairly consistent basis. Ceci. Lazar. This is already a young team and nobody should be expecting too much. Pressure on a 2nd rounder or late 1st rounder with a season and a half in the AHL, coming up to play on the 4th line -- not at all the same as a high first rounder put in the top six and expected to produce at a PPG pace.

While the "Detroit Way" works, I don't believe that it's the only way.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

PTFlea

PTFlea
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Yeah, there's pros and cons I would say. I like the experience Stone, Hoffman, Zbad etc are getting. It's hard not to say that this probably hurt our chances of getting into the playoffs though, we needed a winger who could score - veteran that is. That's life though. Melnyk will have to pay for someone next summer.

Oglethorpe

Oglethorpe
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SpezDispensed wrote:Yeah, there's pros and cons I would say.  I like the experience Stone, Hoffman, Zbad etc are getting.  It's hard not to say that this probably hurt our chances of getting into the playoffs though, we needed a winger who could score - veteran that is.  That's life though.  Melnyk will have to pay for someone next summer.
I disagree about next summer. Probably the following summer, maybe Hossa this summer but I doubt Chicago moves him. Sharp is not the right piece IMO.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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Oglethorpe wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:Yeah, there's pros and cons I would say.  I like the experience Stone, Hoffman, Zbad etc are getting.  It's hard not to say that this probably hurt our chances of getting into the playoffs though, we needed a winger who could score - veteran that is.  That's life though.  Melnyk will have to pay for someone next summer.
I disagree about next summer.   Probably the following summer, maybe Hossa this summer but I doubt Chicago moves him.  Sharp is not the right piece IMO.  

I think Sharp would be perfect personally. Cup winner, PPG guy when healthy, leader. Hossa's probably the ultimate target, but I really feel this upcoming summer is the time to add a big time winger and a big time D-man - preferably both with Cup rings.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
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SpezDispensed wrote:Yeah, there's pros and cons I would say.  I like the experience Stone, Hoffman, Zbad etc are getting.  It's hard not to say that this probably hurt our chances of getting into the playoffs though, we needed a winger who could score - veteran that is.  That's life though.  Melnyk will have to pay for someone next summer.

We had Ryan (4 x 30+), Michalek (5 x 20+) and MacArthur (3 x 20+). Stone is on a nearly 20-goal pace, Hoffman on a 28-goal pace. Chiasson is on pace for 18.

Our young players are performing above expectations, for the most part. Ryan and MacArthur are well off their pace from last year. Michalek is sucking but he sucked last year -- so that's hardly unexpected. Smith and Greening fell off the scoring sheet.

Bottom line is we *had* veteran wingers with scoring history. All except Michalek are underperforming this year (so is Michalek but we should have known better).


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Hossa is over the hill. That ship has sailed, no thanks.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

wprager wrote:Hossa is over the hill.  That ship has sailed, no thanks.

Ha...he most certainly is not.

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