GAME DAY: Calgary Flames @ Ottawa Senators :: 5:00pm ET :: Sun. Mar. 30th, 2014

Ev wrote:a couple of things. One, Da Costa would just go to Europe if he was behind everybody even next year. Two, Wiercioch and Karlsson is a complete non-starter for me - disaster waiting to happen. Cowen-Gryba, you just said we need a veteran for Cowen the other week. And we can't do a complete 180 with Spezza, you either say he's gone or you don't. We can't re-sign the guy if we can't win anything with him.

You are acting like I am the GM, lol, I'm not.  Me saying "I want to see the team without Spezza" doesn't take away from the fact I don't think Spezza will be moved and realistically resigned.

I think Cowen could benefit from playing with a vet but in the same breath I think moving Gryba would be a monumental mistake and that's what the cost would be. 

As for Karlsson/Wiercioch... why is that a none starter?  Because they are both offensive guys?  I don't think it happens I am just throwing things out there and truth be told a guy like Borowiecki might be ideal to play with Karlsson because with him on the ice there is always someone out there to drop them just in case Karlsson is run.  Either way, I'm not putting lines together, just giving my opinion on what a roster might look like.

Da Costa... give him a 1 way deal and he signs it.  A lot can play out in a year so he could cement himself into the lineup and a guy like Greening could be moved in that time.

Yeah, Da Costa is as good as gone. I'm also not sold on a Wiercioch/Karlsson pairing. I think Karlsson should be paired with a bit more of a vet defensive presence...kinda like his Norris year when Methot was playing well.

And yeah, Spezza should be gone, but I get what Neely is saying...if Murray decides to hang on to him, you might as well try to keep that whole line together....and just wait for all three of them to get injured.

tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, Da Costa is as good as gone.  I'm also not sold on a Wiercioch/Karlsson pairing.  I think Karlsson should be paired with a bit more of a vet defensive presence...kinda like his Norris year when Methot was playing well.

And yeah, Spezza should be gone, but I get what Neely is saying...if Murray decides to hang on to him, you might as well try to keep that whole line together....and just wait for all three of them to get injured.

I think they sign Da Costa to a 1 way to be honest and they make him the 13th forward going into next season.  Don't think he's gone as he showed some serious things in his last stint.

About Spezza, that's exactly it.  I dont make the call but if he is resigned then you sure as f*** do everything you can to make him as successful as possible and not put in a position to fail and fail epically like he was this year.

On Da Costa, I guess it depends if any current roster players are shown the door this off-season. Kassian probably won't be retained, but I can see Stone being pencilled in for the big club, Hoffman, and then also maybe they keep a spot open for Lazar or Puempel or Pageau (who is a point-per-game and +17 in the AHL, btw).

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:a couple of things. One, Da Costa would just go to Europe if he was behind everybody even next year. Two, Wiercioch and Karlsson is a complete non-starter for me - disaster waiting to happen. Cowen-Gryba, you just said we need a veteran for Cowen the other week. And we can't do a complete 180 with Spezza, you either say he's gone or you don't. We can't re-sign the guy if we can't win anything with him.

You are acting like I am the GM, lol, I'm not.  Me saying "I want to see the team without Spezza" doesn't take away from the fact I don't think Spezza will be moved and realistically resigned.

As for Karlsson/Wiercioch... why is that a none starter?  Because they are both offensive guys?  I don't think it happens I am just throwing things out there and truth be told a guy like Borowiecki might be ideal to play with Karlsson because with him on the ice there is always someone out there to drop them just in case Karlsson is run.  Either way, I'm not putting lines together, just giving my opinion on what a roster might look like.

I'm not acting like you are the GM, it's just that you say one thing then a week later say the other thing. You were 100% confident he was getting traded, and speculated Colorado, Anaheim, etc for WEEKS. Now he is not going to be moved? Again I'm not hating, just not getting the contradictions.

Wiercioch is terrible defensively and Karlsson is still iffy. That paid would be so easy to play against. They'd move the puck out but still, guys will just blow by and plow right through them IMO.

tim1_2 wrote:On Da Costa, I guess it depends if any current roster players are shown the door this off-season.  Kassian probably won't be retained, but I can see Stone being pencilled in for the big club, Hoffman, and then also maybe they keep a spot open for Lazar or Puempel or Pageau (who is a point-per-game and +17 in the AHL, btw).

I don't think they just let Da Costa walk, that's for sure.  If I had to guess what next years lineup looks like up front it's basically the same as before under the assumption Spezza is retained.

MacArthur/Turris/Ryan
Michalek/Spezz/Hemsky
Hoffman/Zibanejad/Stone
Lazar/Smith/Neil
Greening/Da Costa

Both Pageau and Peumpel I think will be in tough to make the team out of camp next year in this scenario and would be the first callups.  Guys also get waived and if Da Costa doesn't perform or can't get into the lineup that could happen as well.  Just the way I see it playing out if Spezza is retained... if he isn't then a lot is up in the air.

Going into next year I really do think there is a possibility that Condra, Kassian, Neil, are all gone.  They may very well want Lazar to fill in Neil's position going forward.

MacA/Turris/Stone
Lazar/Z-Bad/Ryan
Hoffman/Pageau (or whoever, maybe Cogliano or Stastny)/Hemsky
Greening/Smith/Neil

make it happen murry

tim1_2 wrote:MacA/Turris/Stone
Lazar/Z-Bad/Ryan
Hoffman/Pageau (or whoever, maybe Cogliano or Stastny)/Hemsky
Greening/Smith/Neil

make it happen murry

brutal... that is a very green line-up on the top 3 lines.

I understand what Neely is saying bringing Spezza back into the convo so i'm nt sure why you guys are saying he's changing his mind. personally I'm not very interested in even acknowledging the idea that he might be back just yet. I think some of this could be lip service from BM and we'll have a clearer picture by the end of july on the situation moving forward.
I also do not believe we are moving Methot. I think this is a guy BM keeps past this season but will wait to extend before next year's trade deadline.
There are so many avenues this club could take leading to so many different scenarios.
all n all murray will have to meet with his staff and melyk and evaluate the season and decide what kind of commitment they are willing to make and to whom.
exit interviews will be very interesting for them also as to help make thos decisions.
my most important points right now would be Bobby Ryan and hemsky. I think when you know what you're doing with those two then you can adress the rest.
i absolutely think the team is moving on from Michalek. unless he's coming back on a short term and a discount they'll move on.

Flo The Action wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:MacA/Turris/Stone
Lazar/Z-Bad/Ryan
Hoffman/Pageau (or whoever, maybe Cogliano or Stastny)/Hemsky
Greening/Smith/Neil

make it happen murry

brutal... that is a very green line-up on the top 3 lines.

If we're gonna go "young", might as well embrace it. Plus, it's #budget friendly, so you know The Euge will love it!

Our "veteran" forwards in Spezza and Michalek didn't exactly get us a lot of Ws this year, did they??

tim1_2 wrote:I was afraid I'd come here and see people rethinking trading Spezza.  If you can, watch Calgary's second goal.  Spezza kinda coasts in through the slot, and then goes and parks himself out to the side of the net, and just stops dead there, watching everything happen, watching a Flame cruise into the slot untouched and bury the puck.  It was quite something.  Yeah, he had a couple nice plays, but his +/- for the game was still zero.  Compare that to Turris/Mac/Stone who were all +3.

If you make the decision to keep Spezza, you're going to be throwing big money at him on a minimum 6 year deal (and he'd probably want 7 or 8 years).  Keep that in mind, along with the fact that he has chronic back issues.

Onto the game itself, how good is the Turris line?  It's ridiculous.  Stone might've earned himself that roster spot next year, and then we can use Bobby Ryan to try and piece together another top line.

That Turris line was struggling a bit until Stone came up. Imagine if Ryan had been playing the way he did in October/November the whole year.

NEELY wrote:Not convinced Murray will actually trade Spezza, that's all I am saying.  Murray will obviously make some moves that will try and help the team long and short term but trading the guy he has done everything for and gone to extreme lengths to protect won't happen IMO.  Like I have said many times before he doesn't have the balls to do it.

Yeah, with Bob MacKenzie saying he's heard they are talking extension it doesn't look good for the Spezza bashers. Me, I've come to accept his limitations and still think there is a place on a competing team for an offensively gifted/defensively challenged player. Just as long as the rest of the team doesn't take their cue from him.

NEELY wrote:In 2 years if the team locked up looks like this I would be ok with it as long as there is still a serious focus on the new core (my biggest concern)
 
MacArthur/Turris/Ryan
Michalek/Spezza/Hemsky
Hoffman/Zibanejad/Stone
Lazar/Smith/Greening
Neil/Da Costa

Wiercioch/Karlsson
Cowen/Gryba
Ceci/Phillips,Borowiecki

Lehner
 
To me that’s fine.  Obviously there will be some moves in there and guys traded but if it something around that, something that has a clear direction then that’s fine, it can work. 
 
Like I said I think Lehner getting the start after that Chicago game yesterday was huge and a real positive sign that everyone is starting to get on the same page.

Where's Stewart up there? We won't carry three extra forwards.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Not convinced Murray will actually trade Spezza, that's all I am saying.  Murray will obviously make some moves that will try and help the team long and short term but trading the guy he has done everything for and gone to extreme lengths to protect won't happen IMO.  Like I have said many times before he doesn't have the balls to do it.

Yeah, with Bob MacKenzie saying he's heard they are talking extension it doesn't look good for the Spezza bashers.  Me, I've come to accept his limitations and still think there is a place on a competing team for an offensively gifted/defensively challenged player.  Just as long as the rest of the team doesn't take their cue from him.

Like I said above, if Spezza plays even hockey at ES then that's all people should expect from him and he can be successful.  Also, based on Hemsky's comments today it sounds like if Spezza is back he will be a lot more likely to sign... basically stated I won't be back if Spezza isn't (that's how I took it).  I think it's becoming more and more apparent Spezza will likely be back and they roll with that top line again but maybe without Michalek depending on what he wants in term and cash. 

I don't like Spezza as the captain or go to guy but if he's back and extended there's no point in harping on that, the decision is made and your best bet is to get behind him and support him, it will probably go a lot further than bashing the guy. 

If Spezza is back though there needs to be a move made somewhere and again I think that's Anderson, at least that lets some air back in the room.

Ev wrote:a couple of things. One, Da Costa would just go to Europe if he was behind everybody even next year. Two, Wiercioch and Karlsson is a complete non-starter for me - disaster waiting to happen. Cowen-Gryba, you just said we need a veteran for Cowen the other week. And we can't do a complete 180 with Spezza, you either say he's gone or you don't. We can't re-sign the guy if we can't win anything with him.

You keep forgetting that we don't have a say in this.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Not convinced Murray will actually trade Spezza, that's all I am saying.  Murray will obviously make some moves that will try and help the team long and short term but trading the guy he has done everything for and gone to extreme lengths to protect won't happen IMO.  Like I have said many times before he doesn't have the balls to do it.

Yeah, with Bob MacKenzie saying he's heard they are talking extension it doesn't look good for the Spezza bashers.  Me, I've come to accept his limitations and still think there is a place on a competing team for an offensively gifted/defensively challenged player.  Just as long as the rest of the team doesn't take their cue from him.

i've heard that stuff too. doesn't mean BM isn't evaluating his options. could also be pricing himself out of a deal to facilitate a trade afterwards. making it clear to spezza that it's time to move on. there's a lot of strategies possible within all kinds of negotiations.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Not convinced Murray will actually trade Spezza, that's all I am saying.  Murray will obviously make some moves that will try and help the team long and short term but trading the guy he has done everything for and gone to extreme lengths to protect won't happen IMO.  Like I have said many times before he doesn't have the balls to do it.

Yeah, with Bob MacKenzie saying he's heard they are talking extension it doesn't look good for the Spezza bashers.  Me, I've come to accept his limitations and still think there is a place on a competing team for an offensively gifted/defensively challenged player.  Just as long as the rest of the team doesn't take their cue from him.

i've heard that stuff too. doesn't mean BM isn't evaluating his options. could also be pricing himself out of a deal to facilitate a trade afterwards. making it clear to spezza that it's time to move on. there's a lot of strategies possible within all kinds of negotiations.

Murray's history is pretty clear though, he believe in Spezza and believes players like him are almost impossible to find.  Again, if Spezza is back then you just hope it works out even if you believe it won't.