GAME DAY: Calgary Flames @ Ottawa Senators :: 5:00pm ET :: Sun. Mar. 30th, 2014

Ev wrote:Spezza traded, not traded, whatever, it's the re we should address IMO. Neil and Condra replaced by stone and Lazar would be amazing.

Whatever? Really? Seems like a huge decision to me.

And yes - Condra and Neil out and lazar and stone in. Hoffman might be the trade piece or he might have earned a spot with zbad and lazar.

Ya, let's keep some perspective here. This is exactly what we need from Spezza. Not as our captain going forward but to up his trade value in the off season. He's not a Mac type player, he's not a leader for our young forwards. Be happy he's playing better and that the injuries aren't hampering him at this point in the season and take advantage because the injuries will return along with the lazy play when things don't go his way.

Rewatching the game now, Stone has insane hockey sense, he's legit.
Diddle Spezza it shouldn't matter anymore what he does from now on.
We have the worst Defense in the league and he and Michalek are the worst +/- on the team. Enough with the he may have been injured/recovering BS.
We should create a new lin with Zibanejad and Ryan next season, maybe put Hemsky on that line if he stays or another kid from Bingo.

nothing spezza can do now will make me change my mind. the pressure is off now, the games aren't as important. he's not what we need.

I was afraid I'd come here and see people rethinking trading Spezza. If you can, watch Calgary's second goal. Spezza kinda coasts in through the slot, and then goes and parks himself out to the side of the net, and just stops dead there, watching everything happen, watching a Flame cruise into the slot untouched and bury the puck. It was quite something. Yeah, he had a couple nice plays, but his +/- for the game was still zero. Compare that to Turris/Mac/Stone who were all +3.

If you make the decision to keep Spezza, you're going to be throwing big money at him on a minimum 6 year deal (and he'd probably want 7 or 8 years). Keep that in mind, along with the fact that he has chronic back issues.

Onto the game itself, how good is the Turris line? It's ridiculous. Stone might've earned himself that roster spot next year, and then we can use Bobby Ryan to try and piece together another top line.

Not convinced Murray will actually trade Spezza, that's all I am saying.  Murray will obviously make some moves that will try and help the team long and short term but trading the guy he has done everything for and gone to extreme lengths to protect won't happen IMO.  Like I have said many times before he doesn't have the balls to do it.

tim1_2 wrote:I was afraid I'd come here and see people rethinking trading Spezza.  If you can, watch Calgary's second goal.  Spezza kinda coasts in through the slot, and then goes and parks himself out to the side of the net, and just stops dead there, watching everything happen, watching a Flame cruise into the slot untouched and bury the puck.  It was quite something.  Yeah, he had a couple nice plays, but his +/- for the game was still zero.  Compare that to Turris/Mac/Stone who were all +3.

If you make the decision to keep Spezza, you're going to be throwing big money at him on a minimum 6 year deal (and he'd probably want 7 or 8 years).  Keep that in mind, along with the fact that he has chronic back issues.

Onto the game itself, how good is the Turris line?  It's ridiculous.  Stone might've earned himself that roster spot next year, and then we can use Bobby Ryan to try and piece together another top line.

Don't think anyone is rethinking it on their end... but a few of us live in a reality where Murray won't make that move.  That's what I am basing my view on what I think the Sens should offer Spezza on a deal, it's something to talk about. 

Just on the assumption Spezza stays if he played like he did last night with some consistency, he'll work.  If he plays even hockey that will be good enough taking into account what he will do on the PP.  If they extend him it should be big money on 3 years vs 5-6 mil on a 7-8 year deal.

Neely, you've been the #1 fan of getting Spezza out of here, and have said things like "he'll never change" or that we'll never win with him...and now you're saying that it can work with him?

tim1_2 wrote:Neely, you've been the #1 fan of getting Spezza out of here, and have said things like "he'll never change" or that we'll never win with him...and now you're saying that it can work with him?

Nope, not saying that at all, I think he will bomb out and flame.  What I think and what will happen along with what he needs to do are completely different though.  If I am the GM I trade him for the best possible return no matter what that is but I'm not the GM.

If Spezza does return and gets extended they need to figure out how he will be successful and IMO that's playing even at ES and getting the majority of his points on the PP.  If he does that I think he will be fine. That said I don't think he will and I believe it will be a mistake but if he is extended I better learn to live with it and support him because negative/loud opinions on him won't change anything.  If he's here the only thing you can do as a fan is get behind him and hope for the best.

The other thing is you are looking for signs of hope and to me, Lehner getting the start last night and the back to backs in Florida is a good start.  To me that shows that MacLean and the team is willing to run with Lehner and move Anderson going into next year, to me that is a pretty big change when you switch #1 goaltenders and go with the guy you plan to run with for hopefully a decade or more.  At this point you pull the positives out of the season and that's a big one for me.  The team once again has been on a streak since putting Lehner in and MacLean hasn't made the mistake of taking him out even with Anderson's game against Chicago.

Is Spezza coming back a mistake?  I think it is for sure.  Is it something that is going to crush the team?  Remains to be seen for sure but again if he is back he just needs to play even hockey and he will be fine.  The bigger issues going forward is who they let go and who on the wing they resign.  For sure Anderson is on his way out, I would guess Methot as well (not worth the money he will get and easily replaced), if they can't keep the depth on the wings in Ryan and MacArthur at minimum that's when the hope goes out the window.

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Neely, you've been the #1 fan of getting Spezza out of here, and have said things like "he'll never change" or that we'll never win with him...and now you're saying that it can work with him?

Nope, not saying that at all, I think he will bomb out and flame.  What I think and what will happen along with what he needs to do are completely different though.  If I am the GM I trade him for the best possible return no matter what that is but I'm not the GM.

If Spezza does return and gets extended they need to figure out how he will be successful and IMO that's playing even at ES and getting the majority of his points on the PP.  If he does that I think he will be fine. That said I don't think he will and I believe it will be a mistake but if he is extended I better learn to live with it and support him because negative/loud opinions on him won't change anything.  If he's here the only thing you can do as a fan is get behind him and hope for the best.

I guess i misinterpreted a couple of your posts. I guess another question is will Spezza WANT to resign here? Obviously if the dollars and term are really good, he wouldn't pass up an offer, but maybe (hopefully) he'll admit to himself that things just aren't going in a good direction with him at the helm.

Resigning MacArthur is a no-brainer (same with Ryan), but it'll come down to how much $$$ is Eugene willing to pony-up.

Gotta let it play out, I am not sure he will but just like being a starting goaltender there are only 30 jobs in the NHL where you can be captain so if it does mean that much to him, he will stay... at which point you have to throw some credit his way for sticking with the franchise and city.  He has a loooooong way to go before certain people are convinced he can be a leader of men but that would be a decent start.

Like I said, I can live with Spezza coming back if there are other major moves and getting rid of Anderson and another big piece (I assume Methot) is a fairly large move.  It signals the move towards the new core which Lehner is absolutely part of.  Sadly I could also see Neil being part of a move in a major shift towards the new core but not one I completely agree with. 

At the end of the day if Anderson, Methot, Kassian, and perhaps Condra are moved out, you bring in Nabokov (that type), Borowiecki, Da Costa, Lazar, and Stewart (I think a Methot for Stewart trade could happen), then that's some pretty big change up front on top of being a clear shift in direction towards the youth in the organization. 

If they are keeping Spezza though they have to resign Michalek (2 year deal) and Hemsky because other wise it's going to be the same crap all over again.  Something is kind of working right now so roll with it for a season or two and hopefully the team progresses while that line stays productive... otherwise wtf was going on the last 1/4 of the season?

In 2 years if the team locked up looks like this I would be ok with it as long as there is still a serious focus on the new core (my biggest concern)
 
MacArthur/Turris/Ryan
Michalek/Spezza/Hemsky
Hoffman/Zibanejad/Stone
Lazar/Smith/Greening
Neil/Da Costa

Wiercioch/Karlsson
Cowen/Gryba
Ceci/Phillips,Borowiecki

Lehner
 
To me that’s fine.  Obviously there will be some moves in there and guys traded but if it something around that, something that has a clear direction then that’s fine, it can work. 
 
Like I said I think Lehner getting the start after that Chicago game yesterday was huge and a real positive sign that everyone is starting to get on the same page.

a couple of things. One, Da Costa would just go to Europe if he was behind everybody even next year. Two, Wiercioch and Karlsson is a complete non-starter for me - disaster waiting to happen. Cowen-Gryba, you just said we need a veteran for Cowen the other week. And we can't do a complete 180 with Spezza, you either say he's gone or you don't. We can't re-sign the guy if we can't win anything with him.

Ev wrote:a couple of things. One, Da Costa would just go to Europe if he was behind everybody even next year. Two, Wiercioch and Karlsson is a complete non-starter for me - disaster waiting to happen. Cowen-Gryba, you just said we need a veteran for Cowen the other week. And we can't do a complete 180 with Spezza, you either say he's gone or you don't. We can't re-sign the guy if we can't win anything with him.

You are acting like I am the GM, lol, I'm not.  Me saying "I want to see the team without Spezza" doesn't take away from the fact I don't think Spezza will be moved and realistically resigned.

I think Cowen could benefit from playing with a vet but in the same breath I think moving Gryba would be a monumental mistake and that's what the cost would be. 

As for Karlsson/Wiercioch... why is that a none starter?  Because they are both offensive guys?  I don't think it happens I am just throwing things out there and truth be told a guy like Borowiecki might be ideal to play with Karlsson because with him on the ice there is always someone out there to drop them just in case Karlsson is run.  Either way, I'm not putting lines together, just giving my opinion on what a roster might look like.

Da Costa... give him a 1 way deal and he signs it.  A lot can play out in a year so he could cement himself into the lineup and a guy like Greening could be moved in that time.

Yeah, Da Costa is as good as gone. I'm also not sold on a Wiercioch/Karlsson pairing. I think Karlsson should be paired with a bit more of a vet defensive presence...kinda like his Norris year when Methot was playing well.

And yeah, Spezza should be gone, but I get what Neely is saying...if Murray decides to hang on to him, you might as well try to keep that whole line together....and just wait for all three of them to get injured.

tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, Da Costa is as good as gone.  I'm also not sold on a Wiercioch/Karlsson pairing.  I think Karlsson should be paired with a bit more of a vet defensive presence...kinda like his Norris year when Methot was playing well.

And yeah, Spezza should be gone, but I get what Neely is saying...if Murray decides to hang on to him, you might as well try to keep that whole line together....and just wait for all three of them to get injured.

I think they sign Da Costa to a 1 way to be honest and they make him the 13th forward going into next season.  Don't think he's gone as he showed some serious things in his last stint.

About Spezza, that's exactly it.  I dont make the call but if he is resigned then you sure as f*** do everything you can to make him as successful as possible and not put in a position to fail and fail epically like he was this year.