GAME DAY: Columbus Blue Jackets @ Ottawa Senators :: 1:00pm ET :: Sun. Nov. 17th, 2013

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I have to say I could fully be behind trading spezza. Does not have the heart to be captain and contract wise it makes the most sense. I'm not sure what kind of deal and what he could bring back but i hope the front office is looking at this. The problem is bringing someone back that makes sense for the team. Someone that will make our guys wanna stay and resign here. Yes I'm scared to lose Bobby Ryan in 2 years.

Bobby Ryan is going to be the face of the franchise for a long time along with Lehner and Karlsson.  As soon as the team is totally built around those 3, that's when they start to contend.

Right now this team is focused around Spezza and his captaincy... it's not working.

i'm sure that's what they'd love to do but until I hear a new contract has been hammered out i will remain skeptical.

If they move Spezza and obviously Michalek is gone they need to spend money, lol, there will be more than enough for Ryan and for a long time.

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I have to say I could fully be behind trading spezza. Does not have the heart to be captain and contract wise it makes the most sense. I'm not sure what kind of deal and what he could bring back but i hope the front office is looking at this. The problem is bringing someone back that makes sense for the team. Someone that will make our guys wanna stay and resign here. Yes I'm scared to lose Bobby Ryan in 2 years.

Bobby Ryan is going to be the face of the franchise for a long time along with Lehner and Karlsson.  As soon as the team is totally built around those 3, that's when they start to contend.

Right now this team is focused around Spezza and his captaincy... it's not working.

i'm sure that's what they'd love to do but until I hear a new contract has been hammered out i will remain skeptical.

If they move Spezza and obviously Michalek is gone they need to spend money, lol, there will be more than enough for Ryan and for a long time.

the only thing that we can offer him that another team won't is an extra year of term (probably at 8 mill) if for some reason he doesn't want to stay here that won't be enough to stick him here.

If he wants to say no to a trade come the deadline if Ottawa is out of it, rip the "C" off him. They were hoping this would smarten him up on ice and it seems he's worse than ever.

NEELY wrote:If he wants to say no to a trade come the deadline if Ottawa is out of it, rip the "C" off him.  They were hoping this would smarten him up on ice and it seems he's worse than ever.  

I completely forgot he had a NTC. my bet is he wouldn't say no... I think even him must feel he's not the answer.

Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay. I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second. Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.

Spezza needs to man up for sure, but this is on the team in general, including PMac. They need to be better prepared, they need to get their Dung together, they need to give Anderson some goal support, Andy needs to make some key stops too... whatever is going on, they need to start addressing it soon...

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

I would hope we could get a center in return to be honest. maybe we've got to be the ones sweetening the deal. but as much as I look for who might be available I cannot see a feasible trade. I wonder about derek stepan.

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

I would hope we could get a center in return to be honest. maybe we've got to be the ones sweetening the deal.  but as much as I look for who might be available I cannot see a feasible trade. I wonder about derek stepan.

Why? Turris/Zibanejad/Smith/Grant/Pageau/Lazar... not sure you need many more than that. Ottawa is thin on the wings and thin on speed there too. Kreider brings all that along with a huge body that in a couple years will be very tough to stop.

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

Rangers don't have the cap space and already have Richards, Stepan and Brassard etc.

Just because they took Redden don't mean they need Spezza  

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

I would hope we could get a center in return to be honest. maybe we've got to be the ones sweetening the deal.  but as much as I look for who might be available I cannot see a feasible trade. I wonder about derek stepan.

Why?  Turris/Zibanejad/Smith/Grant/Pageau/Lazar... not sure you need many more than that.  Ottawa is thin on the wings and thin on speed there too.  Kreider brings all that along with a huge body that in a couple years will be very tough to stop.

well out of all those guys i'm not sure we've got a number 1 center and by that i don't mean a PPG guy. i'm still unsure wether Turris can effectively be that guy. maybe. zib might be another year away from being able to being a 2nd line center? maybe you're right though and then you deal him and effectively call this year for what it is, just part of a learning curve.

NEELY wrote:Biggest thing is no accountability.  Same guys playing the same way and nothing is changing.  Like I said, a guy like Spezza can't look someone in the eye and say "you gotta step up" without saying it in a mirror and even then he would start giggling at the reflection.

I'm to the point where I don't think I will be paying for another game this season simply because I know what kind of effort they are going to give.  I keep saying it but a lot of this is on Spezza because the team is never ready and the reflect how he plays the game.  Slow, lethargic, careless, stupid, and soft.  Alfie wasn't the God everyone made him out to be but he was a damn good leader, someone a team could follow.

It was over the top against Philly but some more Alfie chants might not be the worst thing in the world to hear from the CTC.

Oh, I didn't realize it's the Team Captain who decides on who plays and who doesn't, makes up the line/pairing combos and doles out the ice time. Thanks for educating me.

If you think for one second that Alfie was the kind of Captain who grabbed guys by their collar and told them to step it up then you're way off base. Maybe your memory's not too good but Alfie was captain here for 14 years and for more than half of that time the team had no heart when it came to games that counted.
2000: 1st round loss to Leafs (6 games)
2001: 1st round loss to Leafs (sweep)
2002: beat Flyers in 1st round (Lalime with 3 SOs) then lost to Leafs (7 games, we all know the details)
2003: beat Islanders and Flyers, lost to the Devils (another 7-game loss -- this was a stacked team)
2004: 1st round loss to Leafs (another 7 game loss)
2006: beat Tampa, lost to Buffalo
2007: went to the Cup Final, got dismantled by the Ducks; Alfie shoots puck at Niedermayer
... and it's been downhill from there

We were ready to run Alfie out of town because he was not the in-your-face leader. Spezza's had 20 games. We know what kind of players he is. Did you really expect different? Problem is not just Spezza. These aren't 12 year old boys, these guys are professionals and have been doing this their whole lives. A few of them got nice new contracts and have stunk.

I would bet Brassard would be coming back in any kind of trade like that... also the Rangers are struggling with offense down the middle right now as well. Spezza also isn't on a long term deal right now.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Biggest thing is no accountability.  Same guys playing the same way and nothing is changing.  Like I said, a guy like Spezza can't look someone in the eye and say "you gotta step up" without saying it in a mirror and even then he would start giggling at the reflection.

I'm to the point where I don't think I will be paying for another game this season simply because I know what kind of effort they are going to give.  I keep saying it but a lot of this is on Spezza because the team is never ready and the reflect how he plays the game.  Slow, lethargic, careless, stupid, and soft.  Alfie wasn't the God everyone made him out to be but he was a damn good leader, someone a team could follow.

It was over the top against Philly but some more Alfie chants might not be the worst thing in the world to hear from the CTC.

Oh, I didn't realize it's the Team Captain who decides on who plays and who doesn't, makes up the line/pairing combos and doles out the ice time.  Thanks for educating me.

If you think for one second that Alfie was the kind of Captain who grabbed guys by their collar and told them to step it up then you're way off base.  Maybe your memory's not too good but Alfie was captain here for 14 years and for more than half of that time the team had no heart when it came to games that counted.  
2000: 1st round loss to Leafs (6 games)
2001: 1st round loss to Leafs (sweep)
2002: beat Flyers in 1st round (Lalime with 3 SOs) then lost to Leafs (7 games, we all know the details)
2003: beat Islanders and Flyers, lost to the Devils (another 7-game loss -- this was a stacked team)
2004: 1st round loss to Leafs (another 7 game loss)
2006: beat Tampa, lost to Buffalo
2007: went to the Cup Final, got dismantled by the Ducks; Alfie shoots puck at Niedermayer
... and it's been downhill from there

We were ready to run Alfie out of town because he was not the in-your-face leader.  Spezza's had 20 games.  We know what kind of players he is.  Did you really expect different?  Problem is not just Spezza.  These aren't 12 year old boys, these guys are professionals and have been doing this their whole lives.  A few of them got nice new contracts and have stunk.

Alfie was far from the perfect captain but it was still a good captain and lead in his own way. He could look at a player with a critical eye because he was always giving 100%. Yah, he had his short comings and was part of the reason why the Sens underachieved for years. That said, it's nothing like what's going on right now.

Also, accountability isn't sitting guys down and calling them out all the time... it's being accountable to the players you are "leading" and the expectation that you are going to give it your all every night you put on your skates. Now, some nights you have it, some nights you don't, that's fine but again, what's going on right now is pretty disgusting. There is something seriously wrong with this team and the only thing that really changed in the way they played last year vs this year is the addition of Spezza.

Now, if you want to talk about the coach being accountable and not practicing what he preaches right now? Yah I agree, MacLean isn't immune to everything right now. "The best players will play" motto has gone out the window it seems and that started with Lehner being sat. I understand the decision last week to start Anderson but I was clearly against it and for good reason, a lot of people were. Cowen not having one night off is also questionable as well while guys like Gryba, Wiercioch, and Corvo have been no worse.

Right now they are just going out there, unprepared, hoping for the best, and MacLean can only play the players he's given. This is now on Murray as well because a move has to be made.

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

I would hope we could get a center in return to be honest. maybe we've got to be the ones sweetening the deal.  but as much as I look for who might be available I cannot see a feasible trade. I wonder about derek stepan.

Why?  Turris/Zibanejad/Smith/Grant/Pageau/Lazar... not sure you need many more than that.  Ottawa is thin on the wings and thin on speed there too.  Kreider brings all that along with a huge body that in a couple years will be very tough to stop.

well out of all those guys i'm not sure we've got a number 1 center and by that i don't mean a PPG guy. i'm still unsure wether Turris can effectively be that guy. maybe. zib might be another year away from being able to being a 2nd line center? maybe you're right though and then you deal him and effectively call this year for what it is, just part of a learning curve.

Look at Boston... where's there #1 center? Bergeron? Give it a year or two, maybe not even and you can say Turris is on that level. Turris is a #1 center in the NHL and he's showing it night in and night out. He's come this far in 2 years and he's no where near his prime. Zibanejad has the potential to be a very solid #2 guy as well. Lazar, Pageau, Smith, all guys that add depth.

Spezza isn't going to turn it around, lol, he's 30. He is what he is and it is not going to change. Jason Spezza, in 10 years has had 6 NHL coaches, lol, SIX NHL COACHES ON THE SAME TEAM. That is close to a record if it isn't one already. No coach has been able to change his game to the point where it matters. It's not the coaches, it's not the wingers, it's Spezza and always has been. Everyone knows what the definition of insanity is and this is it.

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:Chant "Alfie" a couple more times and see how much longer he wants to stay.  I still think he's a future Ranger and if they were to offer Kreider and a 1st for him I would snap it up in a second.  Hopefully Sather is sold on a Spezza/Nash combo, think of the backchecking on that line.

Kreider on the wing with Turris or Zibenajad for 5-10 years would be unreal.  

I would hope we could get a center in return to be honest. maybe we've got to be the ones sweetening the deal.  but as much as I look for who might be available I cannot see a feasible trade. I wonder about derek stepan.

Why?  Turris/Zibanejad/Smith/Grant/Pageau/Lazar... not sure you need many more than that.  Ottawa is thin on the wings and thin on speed there too.  Kreider brings all that along with a huge body that in a couple years will be very tough to stop.

well out of all those guys i'm not sure we've got a number 1 center and by that i don't mean a PPG guy. i'm still unsure wether Turris can effectively be that guy. maybe. zib might be another year away from being able to being a 2nd line center? maybe you're right though and then you deal him and effectively call this year for what it is, just part of a learning curve.

Look at Boston... where's there #1 center?  Bergeron?  Give it a year or two, maybe not even and you can say Turris is on that level.   Turris is a #1 center in the NHL and he's showing it night in and night out.  He's come this far in 2 years and he's no where near his prime.  Zibanejad has the potential to be a very solid #2 guy as well.  Lazar, Pageau, Smith, all guys that add depth.

Spezza isn't going to turn it around, lol, he's 30.  He is what he is and it is not going to change.  Jason Spezza, in 10 years has had 6 NHL coaches, lol, SIX NHL COACHES ON THE SAME TEAM.  That is close to a record if it isn't one already.  No coach has been able to change his game to the point where it matters.  It's not the coaches, it's not the wingers, it's Spezza and always has been.  Everyone knows what the definition of insanity is and this is it.  

oh I agree. it's time to part ways with him. I just wish Turris was a year or two further into his development. well the whole team for that matter. the question is: does BM make that move.

If it keeps going like this Spezza will ask for one... AGAIN.

Pretty  much the whole team is playing like Dung, you can't blame it on the captain or the goalie.

Murray will make the trade to shake things up and appease the fanbase/season ticket holders but the team will have to figure this out on their own.

Murray resigned Cowen and Wiercioch to fairly big money thinking they'll progress and improve, that has proven to be a mistake so far.

NEELY wrote:If it keeps going like this Spezza will ask for one... AGAIN.

he hasn't been boo'd yet, even then I doubt he'd do it.  He'll ruin what little reputation he has with the NHL and Team Canada.  Somehow I don't think he's that selfish.

He'll just mentally check out and wait for his contract to expire.  After Heatley I don't think he'll go down that road.

I think the Alfie departure is what is hurting them. I think they gave it all last year knowing he was most likely gone in the offseason.

There's no real motivation left, no one will bleed on the ice for Spezza and certainly not for Melnyk.

Hoags wrote:Pretty  much the whole team is playing like Dung, you can't blame it on the captain or the goalie.

Murray will make the trade to shake things up and appease the fanbase/season ticket holders but the team will have to figure this out on their own.

Murray resigned Cowen and Wiercioch to fairly big money thinking they'll progress and improve, that has proven to be a mistake so far.

There is no one player or thing to blame entirely but you can absolutely look at this team and draw parallels to Spezza's play. This team is centered and focused around Spezza, that's a fact. It isn't working. Until that changes this team will be very much the same.