Game Day: Montreal Canadiens @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm ET, Thurs. Nov. 7th, 2013

Ev wrote:They have been inconsistent but most of their losses came against SJ, ANA, LA.

I remember losses against the Laffs, Isles, Stars, and Oilers, but I'm glad you have selective memory.

Anyway, the team is getting better, but hasn't played well, on the whole, for the majority of this season so far. Lots of track ahead, hopefully they keep getting better - and I think they will.

Played well against Dallas, Edmonton, and Toronto.

Gave up 38 shots to Dallas and 42 to Toronto, lost both games, but you're right, we played fine against them.

Anyway, if you want to argue that the team has, overall, played well up to this point in the season, you're challenged and the conversation is over.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:There is no forward near Spezza in terms of shift length, that's a great stat.

For sure. "Mac" seems to be leaning hard on the Captain.

Oh, that's what shift length tells you personally?

Could be getting hemmed in, could be that plays aren't dead as quick for that line too.

Really...? lol

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:There is no forward near Spezza in terms of shift length, that's a great stat.

For sure. "Mac" seems to be leaning hard on the Captain.

Oh, that's what shift length tells you personally?

Could be getting hemmed in, could be that plays aren't dead as quick for that line too.

Really...? lol

No it's actually impossible. The only possible explanation is "always hemmed in." That and only that. Nothing else. Ever.

Haha keep em coming... keep reeeeeeeeeeeeeaching a little more. Eventually it might be true.

tim1_2 wrote:

Ev wrote:They have been inconsistent but most of their losses came against SJ, ANA, LA.

I remember losses against the Laffs, Isles, Stars, and Oilers, but I'm glad you have selective memory.

Anyway, the team is getting better, but hasn't played well, on the whole, for the majority of this season so far.  Lots of track ahead, hopefully they keep getting better - and I think they will.

The losse against the Leafs, Isles and Stars were all shootouts. The Leafs were handed 6 PP opportunities to the Sens' 1; the Islanders are really not a bad team if they get goaltending -- they've beaten Pittsburgh and Boston; in the Stars' game they outplayed Dallas but ran into a very hot Kari Lehtonen.

The Oilers loss was close to inexcusable, although Dubnyk was pretty good, IIRC.

Are people here trying to tell me that the Sens have played well for the majority of the year so far?

NEELY wrote:Haha keep em coming... keep reeeeeeeeeeeeeaching a little more.  Eventually it might be true.

Best way for things to always be true is to keep flip-flopping like how +/- goes from useless stat to gold standard of performance indicators to suit your assessment of certain players. Well, in your case, player. It's an interesting fixation. Almost as disturbing as W.P. Rager's interest in Curtis Lazar's young squeeze.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Haha keep em coming... keep reeeeeeeeeeeeeaching a little more.  Eventually it might be true.

Best way for things to always be true is to keep flip-flopping like how +/- goes from useless stat to gold standard of performance indicators to suit your assessment of certain players. Well, in your case, player. It's an interesting fixation. Almost as disturbing as W.P. Rager's interest in Curtis Lazar's young squeeze.

Pretty sure I explained why within the team context like Ev said, it's a useful stat. Why is Kyle Turris +10 or 11 and Spezza -2? Bad luck? They play for the same team. Don't see me comparing teams and players on other teams to Spezza do you? In house it's a legit stat because +/- is a team stat.

tim1_2 wrote:Are people here trying to tell me that the Sens have played well for the majority of the year so far?

Had some good shifts, had some bad shifts.  Out west wasn't great but they are cleaning it up a little and getting better each game while on a current 2 game win streak with some easier games coming up... they haven't played their best hockey though.

Honestly, you take Spezza out of that lineup and at 5 on 5 the Sens are a 200 foot team start to finish.

The underrated key to the success of the Turris line is Clark MacDaddy. Apparently between him and Grabovski, Toronto just didn't have interest in good players.

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Are people here trying to tell me that the Sens have played well for the majority of the year so far?

Had some good shifts, had some bad shifts.  Out west wasn't great but they are cleaning it up a little and getting better each game while on a current 2 game win streak with some easier games coming up... they haven't played their best hockey though.

Honestly, you take Spezza out of that lineup and at 5 on 5 the Sens are a 200 foot team start to finish.

Let's not forget our D, which was a total shambles the first several games.

tim1_2 wrote:Are people here trying to tell me that the Sens have played well for the majority of the year so far?

They haven't. And they weren't getting timely goaltending like last year.

But Karlsson is healthy and Lehner is in goal now; time for a nice little streak with the soft schedule.

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Are people here trying to tell me that the Sens have played well for the majority of the year so far?

Had some good shifts, had some bad shifts.  Out west wasn't great but they are cleaning it up a little and getting better each game while on a current 2 game win streak with some easier games coming up... they haven't played their best hockey though.

Honestly, you take Spezza out of that lineup and at 5 on 5 the Sens are a 200 foot team start to finish.  

Let's not forget our D, which was a total shambles the first several games.

Again, I said it then and I'll say it now I think it has more to do with the lack of support the forwards were giving and them cheating up the boards on the breakout. It's stopped for the most part except 1 line basically.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Haha keep em coming... keep reeeeeeeeeeeeeaching a little more.  Eventually it might be true.

Best way for things to always be true is to keep flip-flopping like how +/- goes from useless stat to gold standard of performance indicators to suit your assessment of certain players. Well, in your case, player. It's an interesting fixation. Almost as disturbing as W.P. Rager's interest in Curtis Lazar's young squeeze.

Pretty sure I explained why within the team context like Ev said, it's a useful stat.  Why is Kyle Turris +10 or 11 and Spezza -2?  Bad luck?  They play for the same team.  Don't see me comparing teams and players on other teams to Spezza do you?  In house it's a legit stat because +/- is a team stat.

I've actually always considered it a legit stat. Why the difference between players on the same team? Aside from that players overall performance? Linemates, including D pairing, opposition skill and strategy, are they always checking against certain players? Are they more passive against others? More than one factor and I'm sure you know them all.

I don't consider it a legit stat because of guys like Tom Priesing or Chris Phillips 3 years ago. Phillips was -35 or something insane like that but it was a BS stat when looking at the rest of the league. Phillips has always been solid defensively and a guy like Tom Priesing could be +45 or w/e it was and he was barely an NHL D man. +/- is a reflection of the team and that's all it is... or goaltending which is a variable within the stat you can't account for.

Spezza vs Turris right now in the overall picture... esh it isn't close. Spezza's +/- vs Turris' is a pretty good reflection of exactly what line is struggling. The TOI stat is also pretty concerning because being out there 10-16 seconds long per shift than everyone else is an enormous issue and there is no positive to draw from that stat alone.

no one is arguing turris' line has outperformed offensively and defensively vs spezza's line. The emphasis on the +/- is accurate but some on here are reading a little too much into it. To start the game, turris' line was hemmed into our zone because of a clear giveaway by turris. No attention paid to that. Also I paid close attention to see who our dmen were when spezz' line was hemmed into our zone and more often than not it wasn't karlsson on the ice (surprise!). Just saying being hemmed into our zone isn't the clearest definition of who is performing better, it's still a team game. How many times against columbus were the sens hemmed into their zone because of giveaways by lehner?

Spezza's problem is keeping the puck in the offensive zone and that's where he and his linemates gotta improve vastly. No protection, no speed, nothing. Need to stick conacher with him for a while now.