2012/13 Lineup

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah, that's why people who panic about us being under the cap floor need to take a step back and see how it plays out. I think it'll go down - and affect this year's cap, so I think we'll slide right over the cap floor.

The question fans should be asking themselves is: do you like the makeup of the team? Don't worry about the $$, focus in on the team and assess like that. Last year proved that we don't need to spend money just for fun.

It's not even about money. It's about winning for crying out loud. I think it's bush-league not to spend a little money, not to the cap, maybe just a little above the floor, to attempt to build on last years success.

So...you don't like the lineup we're going in with right now?

Hey, I liked it when Rob Gaudreau was one of my favourite players. This team should be making improvements. Even the top teams don't settle for winning seasons why should Ottawa be happy with a 1st round playoff exit?

They shouldnt but they made moves to improve their team. They replaced Foligno and added Methot. They also signed Lundin for some depth and they tried to get Nash and would have landed him if it wasn't for his NTC. Not sure what else you expect from a team to be honest.

Neither of those moves are improvements. Nothing against Methot, I'd even go as far as to say that he might be an improvement on Kuba. The Foligno for Methot move tells me that Ottawa didn't want to pay for both players because I'm sure Columbus would have moved Methot for less just to rid themselves of the salary.

Certainly, the UFA picking were somewhat slim, also Nash was a douchebag for not wanting a chance to play with Spezza, and I can live with that part of it.

Totally agree. I personally don't see how we've improved and I don't expect us to make the playoffs this season. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Bummer, sucks being short sighted.

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah, that's why people who panic about us being under the cap floor need to take a step back and see how it plays out. I think it'll go down - and affect this year's cap, so I think we'll slide right over the cap floor.

The question fans should be asking themselves is: do you like the makeup of the team? Don't worry about the $$, focus in on the team and assess like that. Last year proved that we don't need to spend money just for fun.

It's not even about money. It's about winning for crying out loud. I think it's bush-league not to spend a little money, not to the cap, maybe just a little above the floor, to attempt to build on last years success.

So...you don't like the lineup we're going in with right now?

Hey, I liked it when Rob Gaudreau was one of my favourite players. This team should be making improvements. Even the top teams don't settle for winning seasons why should Ottawa be happy with a 1st round playoff exit?

They shouldnt but they made moves to improve their team. They replaced Foligno and added Methot. They also signed Lundin for some depth and they tried to get Nash and would have landed him if it wasn't for his NTC. Not sure what else you expect from a team to be honest.

Neither of those moves are improvements. Nothing against Methot, I'd even go as far as to say that he might be an improvement on Kuba. The Foligno for Methot move tells me that Ottawa didn't want to pay for both players because I'm sure Columbus would have moved Methot for less just to rid themselves of the salary.

Certainly, the UFA picking were somewhat slim, also Nash was a douchebag for not wanting a chance to play with Spezza, and I can live with that part of it.

Totally agree. I personally don't see how we've improved and I don't expect us to make the playoffs this season. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Bummer, sucks being short sighted.

That wasn't necessary.

It is short sighted. How someone can look at the team who started last year vs the team that will start this year and say it isn't improved is just crazy.

Goaltending? Better. Bishop can be counted on for 20 plus games. Auld?
Forwards? Better. Turris will be here from day 1, that only helps.
Defense? Maybe the same, I think better.

They just need to build on last year to be the same and IMO will be better. I think the compete for the division because they know exactly what they have, the players know exactly what their roles are, and they know exactly what to do in their system.

I'm not even saying the Sens are a lock for the playoffs but how anyone can say right now that the team that started last (who made the playoffs) is better than the team that will start this year, well like I said, totally short sighted.

I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

I'd say they'd consider that a disappointment if he only scored as many goals as Foligno.

I am also skeptical that the team improved, and even a slight improvement is hardly enough to be a difference maker.

In fact, as I said earlier, it seems the Sens are content with the status quo and that winning is a bonus. I believe, as evident by the moves (or lack of) that they are content with letting the team build through growing pains. Putting two rookies in crucial playoff games = let's see how our young guys can do, and if we win, awesome!

Ok, and Bishop was part of the team for 10 games last season, Auld went 2-4-2 in 14 appearances (I guess 6 were in relief or being pulled?). In his 10 appearances, Bishop went 3-3-2 (so ultimately the comparison is 2-6 vs. 3-5). Slight improvement, but Auld wasn't even a factor. Lehner went 3-2 in 5 games. That's better than both on a smaller sample size. Bishop's stats were 2.48 and .909 vs. Auld's 3.35 and 0.883, so yeah Bishop was better, but he only played 4 less games, so Auld was not really a factor.

The major concern with losing Foligno for Latendresse is consistency. Not so much with production, but simply health. First issue is ensuring Latendresse remains healthy, then the next issue is whether he will actually produce.

Looking at his last two seasons, he was on pace for a little over a PPG, but injuries cut his season short at only 11 and 16 games in 10-11 and 11-12. You can extrapolate the small sample size over 82 games and get slightly over a PPG, but you also have to realize that many players start off well and taper off, and some start off slow and then go on a tear. Key word = consistency. So again healthy and consistent. He's also faced with a new team again, so there's adjusting.

Oh and again, Methot will likely be a decent player. Had an injury fileld season last year, lost his spot as a result. He's a stay at home guy, defensive d-man, he's a Chris Phillips type player. A decent complement to a guy like Karlsson. And Kuba was a scapegoat for Sens fans a lot, and yet people were Kuba apologists saying the team will suffer losing a veteran guy who played really well with Karlsson. He is a veteran player, Methot not so much.

So yeah if someone says they don't believe the team got better, that's their right, and their opinion. Deal with it, don't be a jerk about it. They might prove to be wrong, or not. Can easily say it is short-sighted or overly optimistic to deem them better now when they have yet to even play.

Now that's another argument altogether - and one that I think might have some merit.

The Sens added Latendresse and Methot and to a much lesser extent Lundin. They'll also put one or two of Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Stone into the lineup, but...as of right now, I'm not 100% convinced they can make the playoffs with the amount of change and the amount of parity in the NHL right now.

1.I feel the Canes got exponentially better, so you can mark them down as a team that wasn't in the POs last year that will challenge.

2.The Canadiens won't be injury riddled the way they were last year - or at least, it seems far fetched to suggest it. So they'll be greatly imroved based solely on that and will be fighting for a PO spot.

3.Had Reimer not gotten injured when the Leafs were in a PO spot last year, would they have made it? And if they acquire someone else to help Reimer, do they challenge as well? Hard to say.

4.Buffalo will be a lot better. Still not sure who'll be scoring the goals there beside they obvious players, but they're a good bet to battle really hard for a playoff spot as well - like last year, but perhaps minus they terrible start/middle.

5.Have the Lightning cured their goaltending woes of last year with Lindback? I'm not 100% sold, but he'll certainly be a huge upgrade on the way Roloson played last year. Adding Salo and Carle to the backend was a lot of $$, but it'll help. They'll likely be battling for a spot too.

6.Not a huge fan of O.Jokinen, but Winnipeg tried to fill a hole they had - and he'll likely do well for them. They already have a pretty strong lineup that fought for the final PO spot last year - and now the younger players are a year older and wiser, so expect a battle there too.


In other words, the only team (IMO) that the Sens needn't worry about is the Islanders - and truth be told, they're due to start coming together as well.

Will this mean we miss? Or Philly? Or Washington? Does Jersey crumble without Parise? Does Florida crash back to earth for this season (before their bevy of prospects come in)?

Someone's gonna be real upset at the end of this year - and the lack of adding an impact scorer to the Sens means it could be us.

Riprock wrote:I am also skeptical that the team improved, and even a slight improvement is hardly enough to be a difference maker.

In fact, as I said earlier, it seems the Sens are content with the status quo and that winning is a bonus. I believe, as evident by the moves (or lack of) that they are content with letting the team build through growing pains. Putting two rookies in crucial playoff games = let's see how our young guys can do, and if we win, awesome!

Ok, and Bishop was part of the team for 10 games last season, Auld went 2-4-2 in 14 appearances (I guess 6 were in relief or being pulled?). In his 10 appearances, Bishop went 3-3-2 (so ultimately the comparison is 2-6 vs. 3-5). Slight improvement, but Auld wasn't even a factor. Lehner went 3-2 in 5 games. That's better than both on a smaller sample size. Bishop's stats were 2.48 and .909 vs. Auld's 3.35 and 0.883, so yeah Bishop was better, but he only played 4 less games, so Auld was not really a factor.

The major concern with losing Foligno for Latendresse is consistency. Not so much with production, but simply health. First issue is ensuring Latendresse remains healthy, then the next issue is whether he will actually produce.

Looking at his last two seasons, he was on pace for a little over a PPG, but injuries cut his season short at only 11 and 16 games in 10-11 and 11-12. You can extrapolate the small sample size over 82 games and get slightly over a PPG, but you also have to realize that many players start off well and taper off, and some start off slow and then go on a tear. Key word = consistency. So again healthy and consistent. He's also faced with a new team again, so there's adjusting.

Oh and again, Methot will likely be a decent player. Had an injury fileld season last year, lost his spot as a result. He's a stay at home guy, defensive d-man, he's a Chris Phillips type player. A decent complement to a guy like Karlsson. And Kuba was a scapegoat for Sens fans a lot, and yet people were Kuba apologists saying the team will suffer losing a veteran guy who played really well with Karlsson. He is a veteran player, Methot not so much.

So yeah if someone says they don't believe the team got better, that's their right, and their opinion. Deal with it, don't be a jerk about it. They might prove to be wrong, or not. Can easily say it is short-sighted or overly optimistic to deem them better now when they have yet to even play.

Look at the quality of competition. Auld played against bottom feeders and even had trouble. Bishop can be be trusted and counted on. The difference between Auld and Bishop is such a huge difference talking about it from purely a numebrs perspective is ignoring a lot. Anderson getting run down won't happen with Bishop, it would have in a big way with Auld.

NEELY wrote:I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say they'd consider that a disappointment if he only scored as many goals as Foligno.

I don't think a direct comparison between Lats and Foligno is going to give anyone a clear picture. The top six will be different this year. Foligno and Greening are out (well, Greening is out presumably) and some combination of Lats/Silf/Stone/ZBad/Wildcard are in. Alfie's back. EK will hopefully not take the first half of the season to get rolling on scoring goals (what a run he had in the last half). If 9MM and Spezz can continue to stay healthy, this team will be strong.

It's absolutely possible that the Sens will regress, but if a few things continue to go their way, they'll be a force. I'm choosing cautious optimism.

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say they'd consider that a disappointment if he only scored as many goals as Foligno.

I don't think a direct comparison between Lats and Foligno is going to give anyone a clear picture. The top six will be different this year. Foligno and Greening are out (well, Greening is out presumably) and some combination of Lats/Silf/Stone/ZBad/Wildcard are in. Alfie's back. EK will hopefully not take the first half of the season to get rolling on scoring goals (what a run he had in the last half). If 9MM and Spezz can continue to stay healthy, this team will be strong.

It's absolutely possible that the Sens will regress, but if a few things continue to go their way, they'll be a force. I'm choosing cautious optimism.

I'm optimistic for sure, but I wrong a thesis a couple of posts up on the other teams circling around the 8th spot - and it has to be daunting. That said, MacLean appears to be a hell of a motivator, so this team will battle all year long. I look forward to it - and also to Bingo and the massive infusion of talent down there combined with Richardson coaching.

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say they'd consider that a disappointment if he only scored as many goals as Foligno.

I don't think a direct comparison between Lats and Foligno is going to give anyone a clear picture. The top six will be different this year. Foligno and Greening are out (well, Greening is out presumably) and some combination of Lats/Silf/Stone/ZBad/Wildcard are in. Alfie's back. EK will hopefully not take the first half of the season to get rolling on scoring goals (what a run he had in the last half). If 9MM and Spezz can continue to stay healthy, this team will be strong.

It's absolutely possible that the Sens will regress, but if a few things continue to go their way, they'll be a force. I'm choosing cautious optimism.

If they don't make the playoffs that doesn't mean they regressed either. A lot of things went right for the Sens last year just as a lot of things went wrong the year before. You will be able to tell by their play weather or not they have regressed or not, which I don't think they will. Playoffs are not the measure of that.

SpezDispenser wrote:Now that's another argument altogether - and one that I think might have some merit.

The Sens added Latendresse and Methot and to a much lesser extent Lundin. They'll also put one or two of Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Stone into the lineup, but...as of right now, I'm not 100% convinced they can make the playoffs with the amount of change and the amount of parity in the NHL right now.

1.I feel the Canes got exponentially better, so you can mark them down as a team that wasn't in the POs last year that will challenge.
The Canes got better, but I think their defense is pretty weak. They'll have to play a run and gun style and try to win games 6-5. I think they'll see some serious growing pains.

2.The Canadiens won't be injury riddled the way they were last year - or at least, it seems far fetched to suggest it. So they'll be greatly imroved based solely on that and will be fighting for a PO spot.

I think the Canadiens will finish second last in the division. They have a wealth of 2nd line players but very few for the first line. Cole is getting old and could go either way. Plekanec is mercurial. Gomez is too easy. Bourque is a fringe top sixer and didn't really seem to fit. Markov is probably hurting himself peeling an orange as we speak. I'm not too worried about them.

3.Had Reimer not gotten injured when the Leafs were in a PO spot last year, would they have made it? And if they acquire someone else to help Reimer, do they challenge as well? Hard to say.

Toronto did what Toronto does best last year. They start strong, then everyone gets the book on them and shut them down. Reimer/Scrivens/TheNextOne will be fine, but probably not great. The Leafs are one of the most poorly assembled teams in the conference. I actually liked the JVR trade until they said they were converting him to center. Is this really the time for that sort of experiment? I don't think so. They'll finish in the bottom 3 in the division.

4.Buffalo will be a lot better. Still not sure who'll be scoring the goals there beside they obvious players, but they're a good bet to battle really hard for a playoff spot as well - like last year, but perhaps minus they terrible start/middle.

Why will Buffalo be better? They have basically no scoring outside of Vanek. While I think Foligno will have a good season for them, their forward ranks are pretty weak. Again, lots of second line guys, few first liners. I think they'll lose a lot of games 2-1. I think they'll finish with Toronto and Montreal in the bottom three in the division.

5.Have the Lightning cured their goaltending woes of last year with Lindback? I'm not 100% sold, but he'll certainly be a huge upgrade on the way Roloson played last year. Adding Salo and Carle to the backend was a lot of $$, but it'll help. They'll likely be battling for a spot too.

The Lightning are a bit of a wildcard. They have players like Lindback and Lecavalier that, if they have good seasons, will have major impacts on the team. Still, both are up in the air. I think TBay will challenge for the post season, but I'll be somewhat surprised if they make it.

6.Not a huge fan of O.Jokinen, but Winnipeg tried to fill a hole they had - and he'll likely do well for them. They already have a pretty strong lineup that fought for the final PO spot last year - and now the younger players are a year older and wiser, so expect a battle there too.

Honestly, I think Winnipeg over achieved last season. I think they have a decent backbone in place, but I think they're a few years and a few moves away. Also, I don't really think Jokinen is much of an impact player anymore. Once again, I think this team will suffer from too many top six players and too few top liners.

In other words, the only team (IMO) that the Sens needn't worry about is the Islanders - and truth be told, they're due to start coming together as well.

Will this mean we miss? Or Philly? Or Washington? Does Jersey crumble without Parise? Does Florida crash back to earth for this season (before their bevy of prospects come in)?

Someone's gonna be real upset at the end of this year - and the lack of adding an impact scorer to the Sens means it could be us.

Notes above.

I think the Sens look good in comparison. Let's assume for one minute that Lats has an injury free season in him. That's an automatic improvement on the second line. We have Spezza, 9MM, HIS ALFIENESS, Lats, Silf/Stone, and Turris. That's a great top six. It's much stronger than last year's. Of course, we need to count on a bit of luck, but that's always the case. I think we'll be fine.

NEELY wrote:

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say they'd consider that a disappointment if he only scored as many goals as Foligno.

I don't think a direct comparison between Lats and Foligno is going to give anyone a clear picture. The top six will be different this year. Foligno and Greening are out (well, Greening is out presumably) and some combination of Lats/Silf/Stone/ZBad/Wildcard are in. Alfie's back. EK will hopefully not take the first half of the season to get rolling on scoring goals (what a run he had in the last half). If 9MM and Spezz can continue to stay healthy, this team will be strong.

It's absolutely possible that the Sens will regress, but if a few things continue to go their way, they'll be a force. I'm choosing cautious optimism.

If they don't make the playoffs that doesn't mean they regressed either. A lot of things went right for the Sens last year just as a lot of things went wrong the year before. You will be able to tell by their play weather or not they have regressed or not, which I don't think they will. Playoffs are not the measure of that.

Ya, I didn't use the term to mean "miss the playoffs." I meant the word as it's defined. Thanks for clearing that up, though.

I'm optimistic because I know how Bryan Murray builds teams and it is usually followed by a ton of success. Sucks he is never around for it.

If people are measuring Ottawa's success or "re-build" for lack of a better term on making the playoffs is wrong. If they miss out on the last day of the season, was it a failure? If they end up with more points in the standings but miss out did they regress?

Sens are doing it correctly right now, no question. I'm just looking forward to watching the games played and knowing that this team is headed in the right direction.

If Latendresse lasts the 10 first games of the season, he will be leading the NHL in goals at that mark. Beyond that, and my prediction of a 15-goal season for the Neiler, anything can happen.

NEELY wrote:
Sens are doing it correctly right now, no question. I'm just looking forward to watching the games played and knowing that this team is headed in the right direction.

We're definately trending in the right in the direction, it's only a question of how fast the bar moves up and how many speed bumps we hit on the way up.

Riprock wrote:
Cap situation, no, not a problem. Payroll situation, kind of odd. If they are looking for a cheap guy to rotate in and out, have to think there were other options.

I think the Sens primary objective is to build, with winning being a bonus. If the Sens were 100% committed to winning, they would have iced the best line-up in the playoffs, not inserting two NHL rookies in crucial games. And no, Silfverberg and Stone are not Kreider. Huge difference, if you disagree, can't help you there. Kreider was a huge offensive producer for the Rangers.

Sens just want to give their young guys all the opportunity to succeed. If they win, awesome, if they lose no big deal. It's going to be a learning experiment. It sucks though, cause Alfie will not have the best shot to win a cup.

As far as cap goes, Sens aren't even close to being compliant. Something has to give, and with no spots really available, you think a significant trade might have to happen.

You have to keep in mind that Silfverberg just broke a somewhat old record for playoff scoring in arguably the 2nd best league in the world. We'll see how huge the difference is soon enough.

NEELY wrote:It is short sighted. How someone can look at the team who started last year vs the team that will start this year and say it isn't improved is just crazy.

Goaltending? Better. Bishop can be counted on for 20 plus games. Auld?
Forwards? Better. Turris will be here from day 1, that only helps.
Defense? Maybe the same, I think better.

They just need to build on last year to be the same and IMO will be better. I think the compete for the division because they know exactly what they have, the players know exactly what their roles are, and they know exactly what to do in their system.

I'm not even saying the Sens are a lock for the playoffs but how anyone can say right now that the team that started last (who made the playoffs) is better than the team that will start this year, well like I said, totally short sighted.

Yes, Turris will hopefully be better from not sitting out, and will be here the full season (Zibanejad and DaCosta replace by Turris for 20+ games).

Methot brings a lot more toughness to the top pairing -- assuming he's here to play with Karlsson. A lot had been said in the past that Karlsson had chemistry with Kuba but the numbers don't really bear that out. That said, I don't think Method it necessarily going to be putting up 45 points or anything like that. Not sure what to think there, but our top pairing will be a lot tougher to play against.

Foligno will likely be replaced by Silfverberg. Impossible to say if that is an upgrade or not. I don't think Silfverberg will be crashing the net as much -- I'll miss that aspect of Foligno's game.

Goaltending, no question, has improved. Anderson not playing with a stye the first couple of months of the season, and Bishop backing him up (and pushing him). Our team GAA will be better.

I guess it comes back to offense. It's very likely that Karlsson is not going to repeat, and Methot will not put up points like Kuba, and Gonchar will continue to slow down, and I doubt a rookie will replace Foligno's offense. I don't think Turris can cover all that. Will the (expected) drop in offense be offset by the improved defensive play?

Of course it could go down completely differently. Maybe Silfverberg's offensive talents far outshine Foligno's, even as a rookie (Alfie was an older rookie after setting a playoff scoring record in the SEL and he scored 26 goals and 61 points). Maybe Turris will have a breakout season and far exceed our loftiest expectations. Maybe Karlsson will be emboldened by Methot's presence back there and score even more than last year.

Is it October yet?