2012/13 Lineup

Didn't realize capgeek had a cap floor chart:

http://www.capgeek.com/charts_floor.php

Nashville has close to $15M to spend. Mind you, they have only 16 on the roster.

wprager wrote:
You are forgetting Silfverberg. Silfverberg replaces Greening and Latendresse replaces Foligno, and we're good. If Latendresse keeps healthy (that's what the checkup was for) we're OK. I'd still like to get a RH defenseman, though. Got $5M to spend -- who do you recommend?

Could've had Z.Michalek for a bag of pucks, can't believe Murray passed on that.

I don't like the way they build their roster though. They have Butler in the lineup and not Silfverberg. I promoted Borowiecki, Silfverberg and Zibanejad (need his salary) and the cap is at $52,925 with 22. The floor is $54,200 so we need another $1.275M. Oh, I forgot I signed JOB for $785.

Anyhow, if we keep a 23-man roster then we still need someone for $1.275, and the closest we have is Noesen and Puempel at $1.1M.

I suppose we could give JOB a bigger raise, but $960 is a bit much, I think. Plus we don't need Noesen up with the big club yet. Can't get away from it -- we need a many-for-one trade.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Do you maybe want to give the new guys a chance?

Would you have wanted Murray to sign Kuba to 4M for 2 yrs. He's 35 yrs old.. It's still a re-build.

Would you have wanted Carkner signed for 3 yrs @ 1.5M?

I'm still not sure re: Foligno vs Latendresse... But IF Latrendresse stays healthy.... he can score more goals than Foligno.

The groin injury he had was fixed by surgery 2 seasons ago... so that's not an issue. The concussion... now that's another story. If Patrice Bergeron can come back from the really bad concussion he had.. then maybe Latendresse can as well.

How about we let it play out. If the Sens suck next season... the reward will be Nathan MacKinnon or another 67 - Sean Monahan - or D Seth Jones (I think his name is).

Methot played for Team Canada the last 2 World Championships so he can't be that bad. I must admit I know nothing about Lundin so can't give an opinion.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
You are forgetting Silfverberg. Silfverberg replaces Greening and Latendresse replaces Foligno, and we're good. If Latendresse keeps healthy (that's what the checkup was for) we're OK. I'd still like to get a RH defenseman, though. Got $5M to spend -- who do you recommend?

Could've had Z.Michalek for a bag of pucks, can't believe Murray passed on that.

I read somewhere they looked into it.. but can't remember what the reason was they did not go for it... Could be the term with the young D waiting in the wings...

sandysensfan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Do you maybe want to give the new guys a chance?

Would you have wanted Murray to sign Kuba to 4M for 2 yrs. He's 35 yrs old.. It's still a re-build.

Would you have wanted Carkner signed for 3 yrs @ 1.5M?

I'm still not sure re: Foligno vs Latendresse... But IF Latrendresse stays healthy.... he can score more goals than Foligno.

The groin injury he had was fixed by surgery 2 seasons ago... so that's not an issue. The concussion... now that's another story. If Patrice Bergeron can come back from the really bad concussion he had.. then maybe Latendresse can as well.

How about we let it play out. If the Sens suck next season... the reward will be Nathan MacKinnon or another 67 - Sean Monahan - or D Seth Jones (I think his name is).

Methot played for Team Canada the last 2 World Championships so he can't be that bad. I must admit I know nothing about Lundin so can't give an opinion.

I certainly wouldn't say Murray should have done one thing or another. I just feel, IMO, that our D is worse that it was last year. Gonchar and Phillips aren't getting better with age, Kuba fit with Karlsson like a glove and Carkner is definitely replaceable.

Latendresse has played less than half a season over the last two years. The old "If he stays healthy" never sees to pan out for the Sens.

Sure let see how everything plays out but at this point we got worse from where I'm sitting.

Kuba is a giant 6'4 marshmellow, it's unlikely he'd have played as well in the future, he's 35. Plus was there any indication he wanted to stay here ? He signed a 2-year deal in Florida because he still has a house there, sounds like wanted to go back to Florida (and would only stay if we gave him a big contract).

I like the addition of Methot, I think PMac will alternate Cowen, Methot or Lundin with EK until he finds a good fit.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Kuba rode Karlsson's play to an 8M payday. He has 2 seasons being a plus player in his entire career. He was +4 a few years ago and +26 last year. The abberation was last year, not all the Dung hockey he played before. Methot will be excellent with Karlsson, check out his numbers on one of the worst teams since expansion.

Lundin vs Carkner - Who cares ? Seriously we are talking 6th or 7th defenceman. When we are a cup contender then we'll split hairs over the 7th D and 13th forward.

Latendresse vs Foligno. My suspicion is that Foligno will get about 3.5M, which is a whole hell of a lot for a 3rd line winger.

I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
You are forgetting Silfverberg. Silfverberg replaces Greening and Latendresse replaces Foligno, and we're good. If Latendresse keeps healthy (that's what the checkup was for) we're OK. I'd still like to get a RH defenseman, though. Got $5M to spend -- who do you recommend?

Could've had Z.Michalek for a bag of pucks, can't believe Murray passed on that.

Cussing me neither.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

I certainly wouldn't say Murray should have done one thing or another. I just feel, IMO, that our D is worse that it was last year. Gonchar and Phillips aren't getting better with age, Kuba fit with Karlsson like a glove and Carkner is definitely replaceable.

Latendresse has played less than half a season over the last two years. The old "If he stays healthy" never sees to pan out for the Sens.

Sure let see how everything plays out but at this point we got worse from where I'm sitting.

I think our D got a lot better. Adding Methot's solid D, taking out Kuba's D zone coverage = very good. We lose Kuba's points though, that's still a question mark, but our PK should be a lot better, ditto the 5 on 5 work.

Oglethorpe wrote:
I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

This is what Bryan Murray tried to do yesterday. For sure I can understand where he was coming from, a lot of running around in our own zone last year.

Oglethorpe wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Kuba rode Karlsson's play to an 8M payday. He has 2 seasons being a plus player in his entire career. He was +4 a few years ago and +26 last year. The abberation was last year, not all the Dung hockey he played before. Methot will be excellent with Karlsson, check out his numbers on one of the worst teams since expansion.

Lundin vs Carkner - Who cares ? Seriously we are talking 6th or 7th defenceman. When we are a cup contender then we'll split hairs over the 7th D and 13th forward.

Latendresse vs Foligno. My suspicion is that Foligno will get about 3.5M, which is a whole hell of a lot for a 3rd line winger.

I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

There's that ridiculous claim again. Kuba has been a solid Dman in this league for over a decade, putting up 24-40 points every year but for one, and always playing in a top 4, 20+ minute a night role. His last two deals, both 3 years, were in the ballpark of his recent deal -- $3 mil / yr for 3 years ($9 mil), and $3.7 mil / yr for 3 years ($11.1 mil). Kuba was doing fine on his own long before Karlsson ever showed up in the NHL, and he'll continue to do fine. He's not remarkable, but he's pretty steady and you know you can expect from him -- 70 games, 20+ minutes a night, time on the PK and PP, and about 30 points. Stop re-writing history. Kuba got paid, once again, because he's been pretty steady and reliable for over a decade, with his new salary entirely reflective of his previous salaries and of recent inflation.

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Kuba rode Karlsson's play to an 8M payday. He has 2 seasons being a plus player in his entire career. He was +4 a few years ago and +26 last year. The abberation was last year, not all the Dung hockey he played before. Methot will be excellent with Karlsson, check out his numbers on one of the worst teams since expansion.

Lundin vs Carkner - Who cares ? Seriously we are talking 6th or 7th defenceman. When we are a cup contender then we'll split hairs over the 7th D and 13th forward.

Latendresse vs Foligno. My suspicion is that Foligno will get about 3.5M, which is a whole hell of a lot for a 3rd line winger.

I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

There's that ridiculous claim again. Kuba has been a solid Dman in this league for over a decade, putting up 24-40 points every year but for one, and always playing in a top 4, 20+ minute a night role. His last two deals, both 3 years, were in the ballpark of his recent deal -- $3 mil / yr for 3 years ($9 mil), and $3.7 mil / yr for 3 years ($11.1 mil). Kuba was doing fine on his own long before Karlsson ever showed up in the NHL, and he'll continue to do fine. He's not remarkable, but he's pretty steady and you know you can expect from him -- 70 games, 20+ minutes a night, time on the PK and PP, and about 30 points. Stop re-writing history. Kuba got paid, once again, because he's been pretty steady and reliable for over a decade, with his new salary entirely reflective of his previous salaries and of recent inflation.

I think it speaks volumes that the management team that saw him day in and day out let him walk without so much as a wimper. I also think the fact they couldn't find a taker for him at the trade deadline in 2011 shows how highly thought of he is amonst other GMs.

Oglethorpe wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Kuba rode Karlsson's play to an 8M payday. He has 2 seasons being a plus player in his entire career. He was +4 a few years ago and +26 last year. The abberation was last year, not all the Dung hockey he played before. Methot will be excellent with Karlsson, check out his numbers on one of the worst teams since expansion.

Lundin vs Carkner - Who cares ? Seriously we are talking 6th or 7th defenceman. When we are a cup contender then we'll split hairs over the 7th D and 13th forward.

Latendresse vs Foligno. My suspicion is that Foligno will get about 3.5M, which is a whole hell of a lot for a 3rd line winger.

I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

There's that ridiculous claim again. Kuba has been a solid Dman in this league for over a decade, putting up 24-40 points every year but for one, and always playing in a top 4, 20+ minute a night role. His last two deals, both 3 years, were in the ballpark of his recent deal -- $3 mil / yr for 3 years ($9 mil), and $3.7 mil / yr for 3 years ($11.1 mil). Kuba was doing fine on his own long before Karlsson ever showed up in the NHL, and he'll continue to do fine. He's not remarkable, but he's pretty steady and you know you can expect from him -- 70 games, 20+ minutes a night, time on the PK and PP, and about 30 points. Stop re-writing history. Kuba got paid, once again, because he's been pretty steady and reliable for over a decade, with his new salary entirely reflective of his previous salaries and of recent inflation.

I think it speaks volumes that the management team that saw him day in and day out let him walk without so much as a wimper. I also think the fact they couldn't find a taker for him at the trade deadline in 2011 shows how highly thought of he is amonst other GMs.

The only whimpering this team is doing at the moment is over money. It's pretty clear now that there was no way we were going to pay ANYONE $4 mil this year, not without the same amount of money or so going out the door the other way -- hence, the Foligno for Methot trade. Methot + Latendresse will make about what Kuba + Foligno made last year. That is not a coincidence. What we potentially gain in improved D from Methot and goalscoring from Latendresse, we lose in the form of offense from the D (which Methot can't provide) and consistency / predictability (which Tenderness's injury history throws into questions, hugely). We made those compromises because we didn't want to pay $6-7 mil to fill those two needs. That's what all this is about.

Again, I don't mind the Foligno for Methot swap, and I like Latendresse as a backup plan / long bomb, low-risk gamble / hail mary. But if those two moves are the only 'big' ones we make, then, yes, I think this team did not really improve -- in fact, it got worse if Latendresse's health comes into question again and he can't plug the hole consistently that he was signed to plug -- and they did so in the name of saving about $2 mil.

Don't forget our first players from last year should improve and be more consistent.

Smith, Greening, Turris, Condra, Cowen. That's where the improvement will come from, regardless of how the new acquisitions pan out.

This team will get more expensive to keep together once a lot of these guys come off their ELCs. Makes sense not to spend a lot and put ourselves in Chichago Blackhawks "cap hell".

Don't forget our first players from last year should improve and be more consistent.

Smith, Greening, Turris, Condra, Cowen. That's where the improvement will come from, regardless of how the new acquisitions pan out.

This team will get more expensive to keep together once a lot of these guys come off their ELCs. Makes sense not to spend a lot and put ourselves in Chichago Blackhawks "cap hell".

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Methot > Kuba ? potentially but not so sure
Lundin > Carkner? maybe?
Latendresse > Foligno? Not even close.


We just got worse folks.

Kuba rode Karlsson's play to an 8M payday. He has 2 seasons being a plus player in his entire career. He was +4 a few years ago and +26 last year. The abberation was last year, not all the Dung hockey he played before. Methot will be excellent with Karlsson, check out his numbers on one of the worst teams since expansion.

Lundin vs Carkner - Who cares ? Seriously we are talking 6th or 7th defenceman. When we are a cup contender then we'll split hairs over the 7th D and 13th forward.

Latendresse vs Foligno. My suspicion is that Foligno will get about 3.5M, which is a whole hell of a lot for a 3rd line winger.

I don't know if the Sens will be better or worse next year, but I suspect our GAA will go down quite a bit next year.

There's that ridiculous claim again. Kuba has been a solid Dman in this league for over a decade, putting up 24-40 points every year but for one, and always playing in a top 4, 20+ minute a night role. His last two deals, both 3 years, were in the ballpark of his recent deal -- $3 mil / yr for 3 years ($9 mil), and $3.7 mil / yr for 3 years ($11.1 mil). Kuba was doing fine on his own long before Karlsson ever showed up in the NHL, and he'll continue to do fine. He's not remarkable, but he's pretty steady and you know you can expect from him -- 70 games, 20+ minutes a night, time on the PK and PP, and about 30 points. Stop re-writing history. Kuba got paid, once again, because he's been pretty steady and reliable for over a decade, with his new salary entirely reflective of his previous salaries and of recent inflation.

I think it speaks volumes that the management team that saw him day in and day out let him walk without so much as a wimper. I also think the fact they couldn't find a taker for him at the trade deadline in 2011 shows how highly thought of he is amonst other GMs.

The only whimpering this team is doing at the moment is over money. It's pretty clear now that there was no way we were going to pay ANYONE $4 mil this year, not without the same amount of money or so going out the door the other way -- hence, the Foligno for Methot trade. Methot + Latendresse will make about what Kuba + Foligno made last year. That is not a coincidence. What we potentially gain in improved D from Methot and goalscoring from Latendresse, we lose in the form of offense from the D (which Methot can't provide) and consistency / predictability (which Tenderness's injury history throws into questions, hugely). We made those compromises because we didn't want to pay $6-7 mil to fill those two needs. That's what all this is about.

Again, I don't mind the Foligno for Methot swap, and I like Latendresse as a backup plan / long bomb, low-risk gamble / hail mary. But if those two moves are the only 'big' ones we make, then, yes, I think this team did not really improve -- in fact, it got worse if Latendresse's health comes into question again and he can't plug the hole consistently that he was signed to plug -- and they did so in the name of saving about $2 mil.

So no players will improve on last year? Turris won't get better? Silfverberg won't have an effect? The system they installed won't be improved over the begining of the season last year?

Yah, Latendresse might not work out for w/e reason but to say they will be worse off? I don't buy it. They still have the same core group of players that had very good years. They still have their leaders. Most importantly, they now have a ton of depth in goal.

People forget Auld actually played for the Sens last year and was awful. Give Bishop those games and where are they?

I think Turris stands to be the most improved player. He needs to come into camp in premium shape, but I have little doubt he will. Training camp + pre-season, plus the added benefit of knowing Alfie, knowing MacLean and getting someone other than Foligno as the winger, whether it's Latendresse or Silfverberg (that's my guess), he'll be able to come in fresh and really put up some numbers.

55-60 points is not out of the question at all IMO.