2012/13 Lineup

NEELY wrote:
Sens are doing it correctly right now, no question. I'm just looking forward to watching the games played and knowing that this team is headed in the right direction.

We're definately trending in the right in the direction, it's only a question of how fast the bar moves up and how many speed bumps we hit on the way up.

Riprock wrote:
Cap situation, no, not a problem. Payroll situation, kind of odd. If they are looking for a cheap guy to rotate in and out, have to think there were other options.

I think the Sens primary objective is to build, with winning being a bonus. If the Sens were 100% committed to winning, they would have iced the best line-up in the playoffs, not inserting two NHL rookies in crucial games. And no, Silfverberg and Stone are not Kreider. Huge difference, if you disagree, can't help you there. Kreider was a huge offensive producer for the Rangers.

Sens just want to give their young guys all the opportunity to succeed. If they win, awesome, if they lose no big deal. It's going to be a learning experiment. It sucks though, cause Alfie will not have the best shot to win a cup.

As far as cap goes, Sens aren't even close to being compliant. Something has to give, and with no spots really available, you think a significant trade might have to happen.

You have to keep in mind that Silfverberg just broke a somewhat old record for playoff scoring in arguably the 2nd best league in the world. We'll see how huge the difference is soon enough.

NEELY wrote:It is short sighted. How someone can look at the team who started last year vs the team that will start this year and say it isn't improved is just crazy.

Goaltending? Better. Bishop can be counted on for 20 plus games. Auld?
Forwards? Better. Turris will be here from day 1, that only helps.
Defense? Maybe the same, I think better.

They just need to build on last year to be the same and IMO will be better. I think the compete for the division because they know exactly what they have, the players know exactly what their roles are, and they know exactly what to do in their system.

I'm not even saying the Sens are a lock for the playoffs but how anyone can say right now that the team that started last (who made the playoffs) is better than the team that will start this year, well like I said, totally short sighted.

Yes, Turris will hopefully be better from not sitting out, and will be here the full season (Zibanejad and DaCosta replace by Turris for 20+ games).

Methot brings a lot more toughness to the top pairing -- assuming he's here to play with Karlsson. A lot had been said in the past that Karlsson had chemistry with Kuba but the numbers don't really bear that out. That said, I don't think Method it necessarily going to be putting up 45 points or anything like that. Not sure what to think there, but our top pairing will be a lot tougher to play against.

Foligno will likely be replaced by Silfverberg. Impossible to say if that is an upgrade or not. I don't think Silfverberg will be crashing the net as much -- I'll miss that aspect of Foligno's game.

Goaltending, no question, has improved. Anderson not playing with a stye the first couple of months of the season, and Bishop backing him up (and pushing him). Our team GAA will be better.

I guess it comes back to offense. It's very likely that Karlsson is not going to repeat, and Methot will not put up points like Kuba, and Gonchar will continue to slow down, and I doubt a rookie will replace Foligno's offense. I don't think Turris can cover all that. Will the (expected) drop in offense be offset by the improved defensive play?

Of course it could go down completely differently. Maybe Silfverberg's offensive talents far outshine Foligno's, even as a rookie (Alfie was an older rookie after setting a playoff scoring record in the SEL and he scored 26 goals and 61 points). Maybe Turris will have a breakout season and far exceed our loftiest expectations. Maybe Karlsson will be emboldened by Methot's presence back there and score even more than last year.

Is it October yet?

NEELY wrote:I'll even say this, with the Latendresse signing, the Sens would be unlucky if he only scored as many goals as Foligno put up last year.

Oh, man, I completely forgot about him.

I think New Jersey is going to be in a lot of trouble. Brodeur is over the hill and every one knows it. They simply don't have anyone else. What happens now that everyone knows about Henrique -- he's not exactly a big bruising forward who can pay through the kind of checking he will certainly receive now that Parisee is gone. All signs point to a big sophomore slump. And, of course, the loss of Parise itself.

I would agree, they might be a bubble team.

wprager wrote:

Riprock wrote:
Cap situation, no, not a problem. Payroll situation, kind of odd. If they are looking for a cheap guy to rotate in and out, have to think there were other options.

I think the Sens primary objective is to build, with winning being a bonus. If the Sens were 100% committed to winning, they would have iced the best line-up in the playoffs, not inserting two NHL rookies in crucial games. And no, Silfverberg and Stone are not Kreider. Huge difference, if you disagree, can't help you there. Kreider was a huge offensive producer for the Rangers.

Sens just want to give their young guys all the opportunity to succeed. If they win, awesome, if they lose no big deal. It's going to be a learning experiment. It sucks though, cause Alfie will not have the best shot to win a cup.

As far as cap goes, Sens aren't even close to being compliant. Something has to give, and with no spots really available, you think a significant trade might have to happen.

You have to keep in mind that Silfverberg just broke a somewhat old record for playoff scoring in arguably the 2nd best league in the world. We'll see how huge the difference is soon enough.

The record was set 6 years ago. The SEL is the 4th best league in the world when it comes to prospect evaluation and how they'll do in the NHL.

Oh, you're right. The previous record was set by a seasoned NHL player, then broken by Silfverberg. I'd say that's pretty impressive. Kreider also set a record of scoring 5 goals before ever suiting up for a regular-season NHL game. I have to admit that's pretty impressive, too.

As for the SEL being the 4th best at evaluating prospects, where did you get that?

wprager wrote:Oh, you're right. The previous record was set by a seasoned NHL player, then broken by Silfverberg. I'd say that's pretty impressive. Kreider also set a record of scoring 5 goals before ever suiting up for a regular-season NHL game. I have to admit that's pretty impressive, too.

As for the SEL being the 4th best at evaluating prospects, where did you get that?

It's well known that the KHL is the best Euro league, and the AHL is the best league after the NHL (for prospects that league would be the ultimate in determining who is ready for a chance in the NHL).

4th best? I count the AHL...maybe the khl...

Yeah but how many prospects graduate from the KHL to the NHL? 3?

I wouldn't be so quick to say the KHL is better than the SEL. And I'd really question the AHL. It' not often that you see AHLers sign with the SEL. One of the other Euro leagues, sure, but the SEL?

SpezDispenser wrote: Yeah but how many prospects graduate from the KHL to the NHL? 3?

They don't go to the NHL because the money is good and it's a good league, not because they can't. Completely different. If the KHL was a poor quality league you would see more players coming over.

not to mention the pressure and threats they get to stay in Russia

wprager wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to say the KHL is better than the SEL. And I'd really question the AHL. It' not often that you see AHLers sign with the SEL. One of the other Euro leagues, sure, but the SEL?

I think you just weakened your own argument. They don't sign in the SEL as much because it isn't as good of a league. I really don't see the point you are trying to make.

The AHL is the second best league in the world in terms of direct comparison to the NHL, but if not, the KHL is right behind. The KHL is a larger league than the SEL with players and teams from all over Europe. The SEL and SM-liiga are smaller, more concentrated, and are generally weaker. It's documented and known that the competition is better so I don't even have to argue this. The KHL would produce a lot of NHLers if there was no "Russian factor" involved.

In terms of prospects, you ideally would want all your prospects playing on your AHL team because of the North American style and closeness to the NHL.

Edit: So I guess you are right. The AHL is probably weaker than the other leagues, and that shows here: http://behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.html, but I'd say it's better to evaluate your players once they are over here than what they accomplished in Europe.

SpezDispenser wrote:4th best? I count the AHL...maybe the khl...

NHL - AHL(?) - KHL - SEL - SM-liiga - Czech - etc.

edit: see edit above. That article seems to show that the AHL is weaker than most Euro leagues but I really don't understand how that's ture.

The KHL is a larger league, of course, but I think it has become a bit diluted because of it.

My point about AHLers not heading to the SEL was to highlight the difference between the SEL and other Euro leagues. The SEL is the top league in Europe. I have seen AHL players who have all but given up on the hopes of playing in the NHL head to the other Euro leagues but not the SEL (I'm not saying it never happens, just that it is not as common). I have also seen a lot of failed NHLers head to the KHL (yes, mostly Russian players, but not only). I'm sure there are some that head back the SEL but not as many -- again, this is perception, I don't have stats to back this up.

Brunnstrom is the only one I can think of.

As for the AHL being weaker than most Euro leagues, that's hard to believe, but I would think that the best SEL teams would have no problem with any of the AHL teams playing on the larger ice surface. It could be an entirely different outcome on the smaller ice surface -- but that would be more due to the team strategies involved rather than the performance of individual players.

European teams would beat up on AHL teams for sure. It's like AA baseball vs AAA baseball, yah, the AA players for the most part of more potential and will end up being better players but the teams they are on are not better than full grown men who have been in the games for years.

The AHL is a league to learn, simple as that. The SEL, KHL, w/e are better leagues in terms of their teams. Obviously players in the AHL have more potential most of the time.