GDT: Ottawa @ Atlanta - Sun. Mar. 27 @ 2pm ET

I'd still like to see where Shannon ranks in all the shootout shooters in the league. 25% is quite good for a shootout shooter, 33% is very good, 45%+ would be considered elite.

Shootout - Highest shooting pct in a career (min 10 shots)
1. Petteri Nummelin MIN 8/10 = 80.00
2. Vyacheslav Kozlov ATL 27/46 = 58.70
3. Trevor Linden VAN 7/12 = 58.33
4. T.J. Oshie STL 11/19 = 57.89
5. Frans Nielsen NYI 15/26 = 57.69
6. Jeff Tambellini NYI, VAN 8/14 = 57.14
7. Jeff Hamilton CHI, CAR, TOR 9/16 = 56.25
8. Jarret Stoll EDM, LAK 12/22 = 54.55
9. Mike Santorelli NSH, FLA 7/13 = 53.85
10. Rob Schremp EDM, NYI, ATL 9/17 = 52.94
11. Shawn Horcoff EDM 9/17 = 52.94
12. Jonathan Toews CHI 19/36 = 52.78
13. Erik Christensen PIT, ATL, ANA, NYR 22/42 = 52.38
14. Ales Kotalik BUF, EDM, NYR, CGY 22/44 = 50.00
15. Jeremy Roenick LAK, PHX, SJS 6/12 = 50.00
16. P.A. Parenteau NYR, NYI 5/10 = 50.00
17. Pavel Datsyuk DET 26/54 = 48.15
18. Michal Handzus PHI, LAK 10/21 = 47.62
19. Jussi Jokinen DAL, TBL, CAR 28/59 = 47.46
20. Brad Boyes BOS, STL 24/52 = 46.15
21. Paul Kariya NSH, STL 12/26 = 46.15
22. Viktor Kozlov NJD, NYI, WSH 17/37 = 45.95
23. Radim Vrbata CAR, CHI, PHX, TBL, PHX 22/48 = 45.83
24. Ladislav Nagy PHX, DAL 5/11 = 45.45
25. Joe Pavelski SJS 19/42 = 45.24
26. Zach Parise NJD 21/47 = 44.68
27. Jarkko Ruutu VAN, PIT, OTT 8/18 = 44.44
28. Pavol Demitra LAK, MIN, VAN 15/34 = 44.12
29. Jamie Langenbrunner NJD, DAL 13/30 = 43.33
30. Mikko Koivu MIN 22/51 = 43.14
31. Brad Richards TBL, DAL 25/58 = 43.10
32. Wojtek Wolski COL, PHX, NYR 21/49 = 42.86
33. Robert Nilsson NYI, EDM, NYI 9/21 = 42.86
34. Fernando Pisani EDM 6/14 = 42.86
35. Alex Tanguay COL, CGY, MTL, TBL, CGY 17/40 = 42.50
36. Mats Sundin TOR, VAN 11/26 = 42.31
37. Nigel Dawes NYR, CGY, ATL, MTL 11/26 = 42.31
38. Anze Kopitar LAK 21/50 = 42.00
39. Patrick O'Sullivan LAK, EDM, CAR, MIN 13/31 = 41.94
40. Sergei Zubov DAL 13/31 = 41.94
41. Daniel Briere BUF, PHI 18/43 = 41.86
42. Miroslav Satan NYI, PIT, BOS 15/36 = 41.67
43. Alexander Steen TOR, STL 5/12 = 41.67
44. Bill Guerin DAL, STL, NYI, PIT 5/12 = 41.67
45. Tomas Kaberle TOR 5/12 = 41.67
46. Patrick Kane CHI 17/41 = 41.46
47. Alex Kovalev MTL, OTT, PIT 19/46 = 41.30
48. Nikolai Zherdev CBJ, NYR, PHI 14/34 = 41.18
49. Petr Sykora ANA, NYR, EDM, PIT 11/27 = 40.74
50. Ryane Clowe SJS 11/27 = 40.74
51. Mike Ribeiro MTL, DAL 19/47 = 40.43
52. Sidney Crosby PIT 21/52 = 40.38
53. Tuomo Ruutu CHI, CAR 8/20 = 40.00
54. Robert Lang DET, CHI, MTL, PHX 6/15 = 40.00
55. Vaclav Prospal TBL, NYR 6/15 = 40.00
56. Alex Burrows VAN 4/10 = 40.00
57. Andrei Markov MTL 4/10 = 40.00
58. Fedor Tyutin CBJ 4/10 = 40.00
59. Rod Brind'Amour CAR 4/10 = 40.00
60. Jason Williams DET, CHI, CBJ, DET 13/33 = 39.39
61. Michael Nylander NYR, WSH 11/28 = 39.29
62. Milan Hejduk COL 18/46 = 39.13
63. Matt Cullen CAR, NYR, CAR, MIN 12/31 = 38.71
64. Saku Koivu MTL, ANA 12/31 = 38.71
65. Rick Nash CBJ 22/57 = 38.60
66. John Madden NJD, CHI, MIN 5/13 = 38.46
67. Nicklas Backstrom WSH 8/21 = 38.10
68. Martin Erat NSH 14/37 = 37.84
69. Patrik Elias NJD 14/37 = 37.84
70. Brian Gionta NJD, MTL 18/48 = 37.50
71. Peter Mueller PHX, COL 9/24 = 37.50
72. Nikolai Kulemin TOR 6/16 = 37.50
73. Brian Rolston MIN, NJD 10/27 = 37.04
74. Lee Stempniak STL, TOR, PHX 10/27 = 37.04
75. Ryan Getzlaf ANA 17/46 = 36.96
76. Kris Letang PIT 14/38 = 36.84
77. Olli Jokinen FLA, PHX, CGY, NYR, CGY 15/41 = 36.59
78. Doug Weight STL, CAR, STL, ANA, NYI 8/22 = 36.36
79. Chris Stewart COL, STL 4/11 = 36.36
80. Fredrik Sjostrom NYR 4/11 = 36.36
81. Raffi Torres EDM, CBJ, VAN 4/11 = 36.36
82. Blake Wheeler BOS, ATL 9/25 = 36.00
83. Brendan Shanahan DET, NYR, NJD 9/25 = 36.00
84. Jiri Hudler DET 9/25 = 36.00
85. Shane Doan PHX 9/25 = 36.00
86. Brent Burns MIN 5/14 = 35.71
87. Maxim Afinogenov BUF, ATL 6/17 = 35.29
88. Andy McDonald ANA, STL 14/40 = 35.00
89. Marian Hossa ATL, DET, CHI 14/40 = 35.00
90. Teemu Selanne ANA 14/40 = 35.00
91. Brendan Morrison VAN, ANA, WSH, CGY 7/20 = 35.00
92. Dan Boyle TBL, SJS 7/20 = 35.00
93. Lauri Korpikoski PHX 7/20 = 35.00
94. Alexander Frolov LAK, NYR 8/23 = 34.78
95. James Neal DAL, PIT 8/23 = 34.78
96. Jason Pominville BUF 9/26 = 34.62
97. Drew Stafford BUF 10/29 = 34.48
98. Marek Svatos COL, OTT 12/35 = 34.29
99. Phil Kessel BOS, TOR 14/42 = 33.33
100. Dustin Brown LAK 13/39 = 33.33
101. Kristian Huselius FLA, CGY, CBJ 12/36 = 33.33
102. Jason Spezza OTT 11/33 = 33.33
103. Todd Bertuzzi VAN, FLA, DET, ANA, CGY, DET 11/33 = 33.33
104. Jack Johnson LAK 10/30 = 33.33
105. Antti Miettinen DAL, MIN 8/24 = 33.33
106. Derek Roy BUF 8/24 = 33.33
107. Kyle Wellwood TOR, VAN, SJS 8/24 = 33.33
108. Joe Sakic COL 7/21 = 33.33
109. Mike Comrie PHX, OTT, NYI, OTT, EDM 7/21 = 33.33
110. Jonathan Cheechoo SJS 6/18 = 33.33
111. Kris Versteeg CHI, TOR, PHI 4/12 = 33.33
112. Ales Hemsky EDM 16/49 = 32.65
113. Thomas Vanek BUF 13/40 = 32.50
114. Alexander Semin WSH 12/37 = 32.43
115. Markus Naslund VAN, NYR 10/31 = 32.26
116. Steve Sullivan NSH 9/28 = 32.14
117. Corey Perry ANA 14/44 = 31.82
118. Jason Blake NYI, TOR, ANA 7/22 = 31.82
119. David Vyborny CBJ 6/19 = 31.58
120. Marek Zidlicky NSH, MIN 6/19 = 31.58
121. Scott Gomez NJD, NYR, MTL 6/19 = 31.58
122. Claude Giroux PHI 5/16 = 31.25
123. David Legwand NSH 5/16 = 31.25
124. Pierre-Marc Bouchard MIN 5/16 = 31.25
125. Alexander Ovechkin WSH 17/55 = 30.91
126. Chris Kunitz ANA, PIT 8/26 = 30.77
127. Jere Lehtinen DAL 4/13 = 30.77
128. Justin Williams CAR, LAK 4/13 = 30.77
129. Matt Pettinger WSH 4/13 = 30.77
130. Travis Zajac NJD 4/13 = 30.77
131. Peter Forsberg PHI, NSH 4/13 = 30.77
132. Daniel Alfredsson OTT 11/36 = 30.56
133. Sergei Samsonov BOS, EDM, MTL, CAR, FLA 7/23 = 30.43
134. Ryan Kesler VAN 9/30 = 30.00
135. David Krejci BOS 6/20 = 30.00
136. Mike Fisher OTT, NSH 6/20 = 30.00
137. Rene Bourque CHI, CGY 6/20 = 30.00
138. Adam Hall NYR, TBL 3/10 = 30.00
139. Jozef Stumpel FLA 3/10 = 30.00
140. Mike Sillinger STL, NSH, NYI 3/10 = 30.00
141. Richard Park VAN, NYI 3/10 = 30.00
142. Ryan Malone PIT, TBL 3/10 = 30.00
143. Tony Amonte CGY 3/10 = 30.00
144. Zdeno Chara BOS 3/10 = 30.00
145. Mike Richards PHI 11/37 = 29.73
146. Marco Sturm SJS, BOS 8/27 = 29.63
147. Steven Reinprecht CGY, PHX, FLA 7/24 = 29.17
148. Alexander Radulov NSH 4/14 = 28.57
149. Mason Raymond VAN 4/14 = 28.57
150. Nathan Horton FLA, BOS 11/40 = 27.50
151. Bryan Little ATL 6/22 = 27.27
152. Simon Gagne PHI, TBL 6/22 = 27.27
153. Trent Hunter NYI 6/22 = 27.27
154. Jakub Voracek CBJ 3/11 = 27.27
155. John Tavares NYI 3/11 = 27.27
156. Marcel Goc NSH 3/11 = 27.27
157. Patrick Marleau SJS 7/26 = 26.92
158. Henrik Zetterberg DET 11/41 = 26.83
159. Mike Modano DAL, DET 8/30 = 26.67
160. Ryan Smyth EDM, NYI, COL, LAK 8/30 = 26.67
161. Darcy Tucker TOR, COL 4/15 = 26.67
162. Dean McAmmond STL, OTT 4/15 = 26.67
163. Marc Savard ATL, BOS 5/19 = 26.32
164. Ray Whitney CAR, PHX 5/19 = 26.32
165. Ilya Kovalchuk ATL, NJD 11/42 = 26.19
166. Mike Cammalleri LAK, CGY, MTL 7/27 = 25.93
167. Vincent Lecavalier TBL 12/48 = 25.00
168. Patrice Bergeron BOS 11/44 = 25.00
169. Jarome Iginla CGY 7/28 = 25.00
170. Andrei Kostitsyn MTL 5/20 = 25.00
171. Loui Eriksson DAL 5/20 = 25.00
172. Rich Peverley NSH, ATL 5/20 = 25.00
173. Cory Stillman CAR, FLA 4/16 = 25.00
174. David Perron STL 4/16 = 25.00
175. Brian Willsie WSH, LAK 3/12 = 25.00
176. Gilbert Brule CBJ, EDM 3/12 = 25.00
177. Keith Tkachuk STL, ATL, STL 3/12 = 25.00
178. Ryan Shannon ANA, VAN, OTT 3/12 = 25.00
179. Ville Peltonen FLA 3/12 = 25.00
180. Evgeni Malkin PIT 7/29 = 24.14
181. Joffrey Lupul ANA, EDM, PHI, ANA, TOR 3/13 = 23.08
182. Jaromir Jagr NYR 5/22 = 22.73
183. Antoine Vermette OTT, CBJ 7/31 = 22.58
184. Patrick Sharp CHI 7/31 = 22.58
185. Niklas Hagman DAL, TOR, CGY 4/18 = 22.22
186. Sam Gagner EDM 8/37 = 21.62
187. Bobby Ryan ANA 3/14 = 21.43
188. Nik Antropov TOR, NYR, ATL 3/14 = 21.43
189. Martin St. Louis TBL 6/29 = 20.69
190. Stephen Weiss FLA 6/30 = 20.00
191. Petr Prucha NYR, PHX 4/20 = 20.00
192. Brooks Laich WSH 3/15 = 20.00
193. Chris Drury BUF, NYR 3/15 = 20.00
194. Alexei Yashin NYI 2/10 = 20.00
195. David Booth FLA 2/10 = 20.00
196. Eric Perrin TBL, ATL 2/10 = 20.00
197. Matthew Lombardi CGY, PHX 2/10 = 20.00
198. Michael Ryder MTL, BOS 5/26 = 19.23
199. Daniel Sedin VAN 4/21 = 19.05
200. Steven Stamkos TBL 4/21 = 19.05
201. Jamie Benn DAL 2/11 = 18.18
202. Sergei Fedorov ANA, CBJ, WSH 2/11 = 18.18
203. Tim Connolly BUF 4/23 = 17.39
204. Rostislav Olesz FLA 3/18 = 16.67
205. Tomas Plekanec MTL 3/18 = 16.67
206. Dan Cleary DET 2/12 = 16.67
207. J.P. Dumont BUF, NSH 2/12 = 16.67
208. Kyle Okposo NYI 2/12 = 16.67
209. Sergei Brylin NJD 2/12 = 16.67
210. Jeff Carter PHI 3/19 = 15.79
211. Dany Heatley OTT, SJS 4/26 = 15.38
212. Matt Duchene COL 2/13 = 15.38
213. Michael Frolik FLA 2/13 = 15.38
214. Martin Havlat OTT, CHI, MIN 3/20 = 15.00
215. Eric Staal CAR 2/14 = 14.29
216. Mark Recchi PIT, CAR, PIT, ATL, TBL, BOS 2/14 = 14.29
217. Marian Gaborik MIN, NYR 2/19 = 10.53
218. Christopher Higgins MTL, NYR, FLA 1/10 = 10.00
219. Dustin Penner EDM, LAK 1/11 = 9.09
220. Alexei Ponikarovsky TOR 1/12 = 8.33
221. Taylor Pyatt VAN, PHX 1/13 = 7.69

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd still like to see where Shannon ranks in all the shootout shooters in the league. 25% is quite good for a shootout shooter, 33% is very good, 45%+ would be considered elite.

I thought so too. Quite frankly i was surprised to hear that Spezza and Alfie are over 30% considering how much those two miss in the shootouts but their sample size is much larger than shannon's (i.e. we see them miss more than shannon) so its easy to get fooled. Even I figured 25% was pretty good....

So Shannon has score 3 times out of 12.

Thanks Big Ev.

Interesting to look at that list.

man look at all those guys under shannon....I guess then if we had all those guys on the team, shannon should technically go ahead of them because he has a higher percentage?

Malkin, Jagr, Sedin, Sharp, Vermette, Ryan, St. Louis, Stamkos....all under the percentage of shannon. So I ask Tim, would you send Ryan Shannon before any of these guys?

Michallica wrote:man look at all those guys under shannon....I guess then if we had all those guys on the team, shannon should technically go ahead of them because he has a higher percentage?

Malkin, Jagr, Sedin, Sharp, Vermette, Ryan, St. Louis, Stamkos....all under the percentage of shannon. So I ask Tim, would you send Ryan Shannon before any of these guys?

Gaborik and Havlat are really surprising.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd still like to see where Shannon ranks in all the shootout shooters in the league. 25% is quite good for a shootout shooter, 33% is very good, 45%+ would be considered elite.

This is nonsense for reasons I already stated. The AVERAGE shooting % in a shootout is 32%. Therefore, 25% is BELOW AVERAGE. You can't say that 25% is "quite good" when it is below average. Now you're just ignoring already-stated facts which is making me insane.

Michallica wrote:man look at all those guys under shannon....I guess then if we had all those guys on the team, shannon should technically go ahead of them because he has a higher percentage?

Malkin, Jagr, Sedin, Sharp, Vermette, Ryan, St. Louis, Stamkos....all under the percentage of shannon. So I ask Tim, would you send Ryan Shannon before any of these guys?

I would try whatever it takes to find a winning formula. That means trying everything until I find guys that can consistently score above the league average of 32%. Some good players are just NOT great in the shootout (Alfie, Spezza, Heatley).

tim1_2 wrote:

Michallica wrote:man look at all those guys under shannon....I guess then if we had all those guys on the team, shannon should technically go ahead of them because he has a higher percentage?

Malkin, Jagr, Sedin, Sharp, Vermette, Ryan, St. Louis, Stamkos....all under the percentage of shannon. So I ask Tim, would you send Ryan Shannon before any of these guys?

I would try whatever it takes to find a winning formula. That means trying everything until I find guys that can consistently score above the league average of 32%. Some good players are just NOT great in the shootout (Alfie, Spezza, Heatley).

YOU would do that. No NHL coach has the time and space to find guys who can consistently score above the league average. This is why you go with your most trustworthy players/players with a scoring touch. Guys like Ruutu and Jussi Jokinen are only popular because star players before them couldn't get the job done...but that's the key: star players get first dibs before the others. And yeah Ryan Shannon right now is one of the top players for the senators right now.

tim1_2 wrote:This is nonsense for reasons I already stated. The AVERAGE shooting % in a shootout is 32%. Therefore, 25% is BELOW AVERAGE. You can't say that 25% is "quite good" when it is below average. Now you're just ignoring already-stated facts which is making me insane.

Now that I've seen the list, I can officially agree, it's not quite good.

Our team just happens to be made of players who aren't very good at the shootout. They either need to practice them more or acquire players who are good.

What we currently have isn't working but Anderson should improve our W/L in the shootout a fair bit.

We're clearing just going by the numbers but there's no harm in changing things up. Whatever we're doing this year is clearly not working.

tim1_2 wrote:

Michallica wrote:
Interesting....I for sure thought spezza and alfie were worse at it considering how much they miss. Again, that's just one point about percentages, but what about who has the scoring touch? I'll ask you the same question I asked big ev....who would you have tried besides shannon, keeping hindsight out of the discussion? and shannon was the first extra guy...you make it sound like he was the main guy for clouston.

I would've tried the kids...Butler (0/1 lifetime), Greening, and Condra. I know that they might not have the best hands in the world, but I think given their play of late, they warranted a look. It's next to impossible to know how someone will perform in the shootout until they are in an actual shootout (and I don't mean the practice variety).

I'd rather try players with no statistical record in the NHL than a guy who is below the statistical average in the NHL (Shannon).

I'd try Wiercioch. Seriously.

Yeah, Anderson will change everything - not that we'll automatically become good at the shootout, but he'll help by not letting in 70% of them, if we get a RNH or Landeskog, I'm sure they're quite adept at the SO, Spezza has always been...average apparently, same with Alfie, Ruutu is gone, Kovalev is gone. We'll have to start using the kids eventually, there's almost no choice in the matter.

Hoags wrote:Our team just happens to be made of players who aren't very good at the shootout. They either need to practice them more or acquire players who are good.

What we currently have isn't working but Anderson should improve our W/L in the shootout a fair bit.

We're clearing just going by the numbers but there's no harm in changing things up. Whatever we're doing this year is clearly not working.

That's the key. We have one player who's been amazing in the shootout. His name is . We don't have any other specialists, but finally seem to have someone who can consistently stop the puck. We'll be much better going forward and maybe the fact that we now have a goalie that will consistently stop the puck means that the shooters will be a bit more confident and can shoot with a little less pressure. If they're a bit looser, perhaps our team percentage will improve.

I

This is a dumb conversation. Coaches go with the 'hot' hand, the guys who are playing confident, getting chances, pointing up points, etc. If history and shooting percentages had anything to do with it, Ruutu would have take a few more shots. There's more to it than looking at someone's stats, which, btw, might go back years and years.

No need to over think this.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:
I'm simply asking (and, by the way, the question was aimed at SpezD) why he thought some clearly that Muller was better when facts imply that this cannot be determined objectively at this point in time.

I'm fighting FOR Clouston right now, not against. If I had to choose a guy over Clouston, it would be Muller - not because he has experience, he doesn't, but every single report/write-up on him says that he's calm, collected, and brings an amazing resume as a player, has coached in the AHL and has now cached in one of the most hostile markets as an assistant. If we don't get him (assuming Clouston is let go), then someone else will - and I think we'd regret it.

But...we all know now that none of us can predict coaches and how they will do in this market.

If he's coached in the AHL then his Wikipedia article is in error.

Look, I loved Kirk Muller as a player. That was back when I still lived in Montreal. What I see him as now is this guy who is always cheerful, always smiling, always giving encouragement. Is that a head coach? I'm not so sure.

Often you need somewhat opposites in your head/assistant coaches: good cop/bad cop, or technician/motivator. I would argue that Muller could be a great assistant coach if he's put in the "good cop" role next to a ball-breaker. I just don't have a good feeling about him being *the* head coach.