What if Murray stays?

Hoags wrote:I've felt a long time ago that Murray didn't inherit a very good team from Muckler. He was more or less forced to make moves to keep our head above water, Sens never needed free agency,

You can't say much good about Murray's bizarre coaching decisions.
3 players have requested trades out of Ottawa under his tenure.

Ultimately I question his assessment of the team, he thought this team was a contender ? in what universe ? Swap A-train for Gonchar and that's it ? That's all we need ?

What is this team ? is it a hard hitting defensive, a puck possession team ? He keeps changing his mind as to what the team is and it seems whatever his vision is not in sync to what the coach is preaching.

I also can't help but wonder why Murray hasn't drafted a bunch of goalies, nothing beyond Lehner it seems.

On a bit of a side note Rob Ray is getting his 2c in:

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/ray_melnyk_upset_by_murrays_refusal_to_coach/

“They’ve lost a spark and I think a big part of it is the guy behind the bench. They really, from the beginning, never bought into Cory Clouston. And, you know, they had a hard time with him in the beginning, and you know, they kind of gave into it a little bit for a while, but I just don’t think he has what it takes to keep them.”

“I’ve talked to people up there - Melnyk wants Murray to go behind the bench to finish the year coaching, and he refuses to do it, and I think it’s causing a major turmoil amongst ownership and the general manager that he’s not willing to do that, and I think you may see at the end of the year that the coach and general manager may be moved out of there.”

I don't know ... Murray is rapidly descending into Darryl Sutter territory.

I agree that Murray's coaching decisions left a lot to be desired.

Your comment about Sens never needed free agency. When Murray took over.. yes they did. This team was at the cap. Quite a few key players to sign. So some had to leave. Murray looks at Binghamton for prospects to fill the holes left.. there were none that were capable of even a bottom 6 position at that time. So free agency was the only other option. He needed players that was the only way he was going to get them.

3 players requested trades out of Ottawa. I know of 2. Corvo (a Muckler signing) could not hack playing in Canada so he wanted out. Heatley quit when the going got tough. He chose to go to a 'winner' instead of helping this team turn it around. I wonder how he likes that winning team now? I think he's on the 3rd line right now is he not, and on 2nd PP. His so called reasons for leaving Ottawa was a reduced role. Well he's certainly getting that in SJ.

Why didn't Murray draft a bunch of goalies. That's because he had to draft defensemen & forwards to get something in the way of prospects. He had to rebuild the entire prospect system. Now that he has a good base of players this team can now start looking at getting goaltenders in the draft (except this year's 1st round pick).

Murray is by no means blameless in this situation. Him signing aging players to those contracts has not worked out. But it's not like they are 5+ contract years. (Like the Habs and Gomez).

Rob Ray -- give me a break. He knows nothing about what's going on in Ottawa.

Urkie wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Ken Hitchcock time, question mark?

It's funny that you mention Hitch because just yesterday I was thinking about whether he would be a good coach to lead the team through a rebuild.

Really, I'm not sure what to think about it but you wanna talk about a coach who holds players accountable? There's pretty much nobody else like him when it comes to that.

Rumours out there suggest that Hitchcock is not good with young players. So getting him would be another disaster.

wprager wrote:For the record, I think that, while Simpson is certainly entitled to his opinion as a paying season ticket holder and a fan, he is *not* entitled to flaunt his opinion on company lettterhead, nor sign the letter "National Affairs Columnist" either. Bringing CTV/GlobeMedia and Globe and Mail into this debate is wrong -- if they are not behind his position then he could and should get in trouble for this. And what does his job as a columnist have to do with his opinion on Murray?

While he may *get it* he is still an a$$ as to how he presented himself. By the way, what if had a legit #1 goalie and still had Spezza -- there's two players who would make this a playoff team.

Maybe Mr. Simpson should become the new GM. He seems to think he has the answers.

I am also a paying season ticket holder. However I don't 'quit' on my team when they are going through very rough times that they are now. For quite a few years this team was one of the best in the league.. so I guess fans got used to that and spoiled in a way. At some point it was going to fall. You can't keep that great team going if the foundation (prospects) beneath it crumpled due to neglect. Players had to leave -- and yes wrong free agent signings were made. But if those prospects would have been properly developed by previous management over that 6 year period there would have been some young guys to come in to fill those vacant spots.. neglecting the need for any free agents.

But there are supporters of GM's and haters of GM's. I assume Mr. Simpson is the hater.

SpezDispenser wrote:

shabbs wrote:Did Murray indeed say we are 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs? Is there a link to that quote or a video?

I guess if those two players are Crosby and Tim Thomas...

WTF is he talking about if true? We're more than a few players away, not to mention banking on Rundblad and Cowen to save the day might not be the best idea, nor would counting Butler as a 25 goal man just yet. Strange for him to say that, I can only assume he means dumping the deadwood on this team and replacing them with solid young players will make a marked improvement. I would advise him to be a little less optimistic for now.

I think he meant is to be competitive. I'm sure he's referring to losing Leclaire, Kovalev, Ruutu and replacing by any prospect that is NHL ready or a free agent (2nd tier). Anything is better than those 3 right now- would you not agree?

sandysensfan wrote:Rumours out there suggest that Hitchcock is not good with young players. So getting him would be another disaster.

Well, maybe but I never said that I wanted Hitch...just that I thought about him as a possible coach and I don't know if he is what this team needs anyway.

If you add 2 top 6 wingers you have a playoff team.

If you have the forwards to maintain possession in the offensive zone and they have the speed and the will to get back and support the D on turnovers your D and goaltending are instantly better (or at least appear that way).

Number Twenty Nine wrote:My God how this guy GETS it ! Brilliant!

http://the6thsens.com/2011-articles/january/simpson58930.html

Terrible letter IMO.

So short-sighted it makes me cringe.

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Lehner's not the right guy if he can't work his way through this and be the better for it.

100% disagree with your opinion.

You are dealing with kids. No matter how talented or how well coached/prepared; they are still kids.

He might be a teen still, be he's been around major league talent for a long, long time. From his training with his father to Lundqvist basically staying at his house, to working his arse off to be the 2nd round pick, to being a star for the Soo Greyhounds, to making it to the pros. He knows as well as anyone that there will be stops and starts and he has to continue to concentrate.

Whamsley was working with him directly this morning according to B-Sens 'reporter' Joy - and that's a good start, to have direct contact with an experienced goalie coach. Not to mention he sends every tape of every game to his father to analyze.

So no matter what, Lehner should just continue to get better and better until he reaches the Hall of Fame?

Makes me wonder why so many goalies with more hype have failed before the robotic, pre-programmed Lehner came along? Goalies like Montoya, Finley, Kidd, Chouinard (twice), Krahn, Roche, Hiller, Ouellet, DesRochers off the top of my head.

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Lehner's not the right guy if he can't work his way through this and be the better for it.

100% disagree with your opinion.

You are dealing with kids. No matter how talented or how well coached/prepared; they are still kids.

He might be a teen still, be he's been around major league talent for a long, long time. From his training with his father to Lundqvist basically staying at his house, to working his arse off to be the 2nd round pick, to being a star for the Soo Greyhounds, to making it to the pros. He knows as well as anyone that there will be stops and starts and he has to continue to concentrate.

Whamsley was working with him directly this morning according to B-Sens 'reporter' Joy - and that's a good start, to have direct contact with an experienced goalie coach. Not to mention he sends every tape of every game to his father to analyze.

So no matter what, Lehner should just continue to get better and better until he reaches the Hall of Fame?

Makes me wonder why so many goalies with more hype have failed before the robotic, pre-programmed Lehner came along? Goalies like Montoya, Finley, Kidd, Chouinard (twice), Krahn, Roche, Hiller, Ouellet, DesRochers off the top of my head.

Bringing up Chouinard is a low blow. LOW BLOW!!!

And Roche?!?! hahahaha nice.

sandysensfan wrote:I agree that Murray's coaching decisions left a lot to be desired.

Your comment about Sens never needed free agency. When Murray took over.. yes they did. This team was at the cap. Quite a few key players to sign. So some had to leave. Murray looks at Binghamton for prospects to fill the holes left.. there were none that were capable of even a bottom 6 position at that time. So free agency was the only other option. He needed players that was the only way he was going to get them.

3 players requested trades out of Ottawa. I know of 2. Corvo (a Muckler signing) could not hack playing in Canada so he wanted out. Heatley quit when the going got tough. He chose to go to a 'winner' instead of helping this team turn it around. I wonder how he likes that winning team now? I think he's on the 3rd line right now is he not, and on 2nd PP. His so called reasons for leaving Ottawa was a reduced role. Well he's certainly getting that in SJ.

Why didn't Murray draft a bunch of goalies. That's because he had to draft defensemen & forwards to get something in the way of prospects. He had to rebuild the entire prospect system. Now that he has a good base of players this team can now start looking at getting goaltenders in the draft (except this year's 1st round pick).

Murray is by no means blameless in this situation. Him signing aging players to those contracts has not worked out. But it's not like they are 5+ contract years. (Like the Habs and Gomez).

Rob Ray -- give me a break. He knows nothing about what's going on in Ottawa.

This was reading very well and I was respecting your opinion...until your very last sentence.

Number Twenty Nine wrote:My God how this guy GETS it ! Brilliant!

http://the6thsens.com/2011-articles/january/simpson58930.html

Ugh... really? There's so much fail in that letter I don't even wanna start. I even heard the guy on radio with his rant there.
I guess in this city if the team doesn't make the playoffs every single year the fans shouldn't come watch the games. Pfff

sandysensfan wrote:Rumours out there suggest that Hitchcock is not good with young players. So getting him would be another disaster.

Hitchcock is great with the young kids, it is the veterans he loses.

I'm not sure where you are hearing your "rumours"? I would be interested in seeing the article if you are able to provide one.

If it is confidential, forget I asked.

sandysensfan wrote:

wprager wrote:For the record, I think that, while Simpson is certainly entitled to his opinion as a paying season ticket holder and a fan, he is *not* entitled to flaunt his opinion on company lettterhead, nor sign the letter "National Affairs Columnist" either. Bringing CTV/GlobeMedia and Globe and Mail into this debate is wrong -- if they are not behind his position then he could and should get in trouble for this. And what does his job as a columnist have to do with his opinion on Murray?

While he may *get it* he is still an a$$ as to how he presented himself. By the way, what if had a legit #1 goalie and still had Spezza -- there's two players who would make this a playoff team.

Maybe Mr. Simpson should become the new GM. He seems to think he has the answers.

I am also a paying season ticket holder. However I don't 'quit' on my team when they are going through very rough times that they are now. For quite a few years this team was one of the best in the league.. so I guess fans got used to that and spoiled in a way. At some point it was going to fall. You can't keep that great team going if the foundation (prospects) beneath it crumpled due to neglect. Players had to leave -- and yes wrong free agent signings were made. But if those prospects would have been properly developed by previous management over that 6 year period there would have been some young guys to come in to fill those vacant spots.. neglecting the need for any free agents.

But there are supporters of GM's and haters of GM's. I assume Mr. Simpson is the hater.

Him and McGuire are the only two candidates, if hired as GM, that would make me stop calling the Sens one of my favorite teams.

Bass Destruction wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Lehner's not the right guy if he can't work his way through this and be the better for it.

100% disagree with your opinion.

You are dealing with kids. No matter how talented or how well coached/prepared; they are still kids.

He might be a teen still, be he's been around major league talent for a long, long time. From his training with his father to Lundqvist basically staying at his house, to working his arse off to be the 2nd round pick, to being a star for the Soo Greyhounds, to making it to the pros. He knows as well as anyone that there will be stops and starts and he has to continue to concentrate.

Whamsley was working with him directly this morning according to B-Sens 'reporter' Joy - and that's a good start, to have direct contact with an experienced goalie coach. Not to mention he sends every tape of every game to his father to analyze.

So no matter what, Lehner should just continue to get better and better until he reaches the Hall of Fame?

Makes me wonder why so many goalies with more hype have failed before the robotic, pre-programmed Lehner came along? Goalies like Montoya, Finley, Kidd, Chouinard (twice), Krahn, Roche, Hiller, Ouellet, DesRochers off the top of my head.

Bringing up Chouinard is a low blow. LOW BLOW!!!

And Roche?!?! hahahaha nice.

All busts IMO and they will most likely tell you the same. Depends on their mindset I guess, when they decide(d) to leave the game.

marakh wrote:

Number Twenty Nine wrote:My God how this guy GETS it ! Brilliant!

http://the6thsens.com/2011-articles/january/simpson58930.html

Ugh... really? There's so much fail in that letter I don't even wanna start. I even heard the guy on radio with his rant there.
I guess in this city if the team doesn't make the playoffs every single year the fans shouldn't come watch the games. Pfff

Exactly what I said.

I can't believe with the knowledge on this site, that there is actually someone that agrees with that guys opinion.

I guess it just goes to show you, that even with a common destination; there will always be a different path to take towards the finish line.

Bass Destruction wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Lehner's not the right guy if he can't work his way through this and be the better for it.

100% disagree with your opinion.

You are dealing with kids. No matter how talented or how well coached/prepared; they are still kids.

He might be a teen still, be he's been around major league talent for a long, long time. From his training with his father to Lundqvist basically staying at his house, to working his arse off to be the 2nd round pick, to being a star for the Soo Greyhounds, to making it to the pros. He knows as well as anyone that there will be stops and starts and he has to continue to concentrate.

Whamsley was working with him directly this morning according to B-Sens 'reporter' Joy - and that's a good start, to have direct contact with an experienced goalie coach. Not to mention he sends every tape of every game to his father to analyze.

So no matter what, Lehner should just continue to get better and better until he reaches the Hall of Fame?

Makes me wonder why so many goalies with more hype have failed before the robotic, pre-programmed Lehner came along? Goalies like Montoya, Finley, Kidd, Chouinard (twice), Krahn, Roche, Hiller, Ouellet, DesRochers off the top of my head.

Bringing up Chouinard is a low blow. LOW BLOW!!!

What is funny about that, is that you had to say low blow TWICE.

CockRoche wrote:

Bass Destruction wrote:

CockRoche wrote:

So no matter what, Lehner should just continue to get better and better until he reaches the Hall of Fame?

Makes me wonder why so many goalies with more hype have failed before the robotic, pre-programmed Lehner came along? Goalies like Montoya, Finley, Kidd, Chouinard (twice), Krahn, Roche, Hiller, Ouellet, DesRochers off the top of my head.

Bringing up Chouinard is a low blow. LOW BLOW!!!

What is funny about that, is that you had to say low blow TWICE.

Once for each time we drafted him.

But I didn't mean any disrespect by it. I remember really rooting for him (Chouinard) to make it. It hurt extra when he didn't.

People, don't forget that, even with Leclaire not being the #1 we needed him to be, with Elliott not capable of carrying the load like he did last year, until Spezza went down we were still very close to a playoff spot. Losing 12 of 13 games after Spezza was injured has put a nail in the coffin, for sure, but if we had a legit #1 *and* a healthy Spezza we would most likely be ahead of Atlanta right now.

Now, maybe Mr. Simpson's definition of a "Playoff Team" means a team built for the playoffs and capable of making some hay. I'm not sure I would disagree, then, if that was the case. But if you want to be *technical* about it, this team can certainly make the playoffs with two small changes.