What if Murray stays?

SeawaySensFan wrote:Let me throw this out there:

What if Murray goes?

Stay on topic!

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

Jeffrey Simpson from the Globe and Mail (National Affairs) feels the same... and sent a letter to Cyril saying he would not renew his season tickets if Murray was still the GM and demanded a change of management.

Why would smart people like that be sending inane letters to the Sens organization. Can we not wait until the deadline to see how Murray does there before proclaiming our hate for him?

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

I'd still watch games but it would disgust me if he gets to stay on. Yeah, he's drafted well but that's about all he's done and he owes a lot of that to Anders Forsberg.

I'm tired of his deflection of blame all the time. I'm tired of him talking about how it's someone elses fault rather then letting his actions speak for himself. I'm tired of him messing up trades, signings and coach hirings and not being held accountable for those decisions.

Bottom line, he doesn't deserve another chance....

SpezDispenser wrote:Why would smart people like that be sending inane letters to the Sens organization. Can we not wait until the deadline to see how Murray does there before proclaiming our hate for him?

IMO, regardless of what he does at the deadline, Murray's time is done. I'm not even a Murray-hater, but he's had control for this group for quite some time now, it's time to go in a different direction. There would be quite a backlash if he is brought back.

SpezDispenser wrote:Why would smart people like that be sending inane letters to the Sens organization. Can we not wait until the deadline to see how Murray does there before proclaiming our hate for him?

"We're only 49 games in, let's wait another 10 before we lay the hate on him"

that's more like it......

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

The choice is easy for me, living where I do. I identify more with the hard working local team anyways....

If the the Steelers win the Superbowl and Murray stays - I'll take that as a sign......

Number Twenty Nine wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Why would smart people like that be sending inane letters to the Sens organization. Can we not wait until the deadline to see how Murray does there before proclaiming our hate for him?

"We're only 49 games in, let's wait another 10 before we lay the hate on him"

that's more like it......

SSF?!? Is that you ?!?

TheAvatar wrote:

Number Twenty Nine wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Why would smart people like that be sending inane letters to the Sens organization. Can we not wait until the deadline to see how Murray does there before proclaiming our hate for him?

"We're only 49 games in, let's wait another 10 before we lay the hate on him"

that's more like it......

SSF?!? Is that you ?!?

Not this time.

Let me just add my two cents. Relax. It's still early.

Urkie wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

I'd still watch games but it would disgust me if he gets to stay on. Yeah, he's drafted well but that's about all he's done and he owes a lot of that to Anders Forsberg.

I'm tired of his deflection of blame all the time. I'm tired of him talking about how it's someone elses fault rather then letting his actions speak for himself. I'm tired of him messing up trades, signings and coach hirings and not being held accountable for those decisions.

Bottom line, he doesn't deserve another chance....

I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

marakh wrote:I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

Predictions are just that...predictions. The on ice performance is really all I care about or you care about for that matter and the bottom line is that Murray has not assembled a good enough team. Then on top of that he keeps deflecting blame and justifying mistakes he clearly made. We deserve better then this crap...you know it and I know it.

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

If Pierre McGuire gets hired as GM I may not watch next season.

Urkie wrote:

marakh wrote:I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

Predictions are just that...predictions. The on ice performance is really all I care about or you care about for that matter and the bottom line is that Murray has not assembled a good enough team. Then on top of that he keeps deflecting blame and justifying mistakes he clearly made. We deserve better then this crap...you know it and I know it.

What I know is he was given a ticking bomb in 2007. It's pretty late and I don't feel like doing all the work, but if you have time, check the draft picks from 2002 to 2007 in the rest of the league and compare them to Regin, Elliott and FOligno. I'd argue with you that it's the worst in the league, not even debatable. Explain to me how any team in the salary cap era would survive something like that. Or may be they should have left Spezza, HEatley and FIsher hit Free agency...
I don't care if Murray made bad trades/signings or not, the fact is if this team had anything resembling a good prospect he wouldn't have needed to make those signings. Aren't you surprised he is still the GM after 4 very average to bad years? It's because Melnyk isn't an idiot and he analyzes the circumstances of Murray's moves.

The coaching choices, on the other hand, are just brutal and I don't have anything good to say about it.

Bottom line is, we're in rebuild mode and I don't care how he's been so far, I want him and Tim Murray at the draft.
I can't stand Elliott, doesn't mean I'm gonna stop wathicng games because he's in net. I'm not directing this to you in particular, but I wonder if you guys are fan of the Senators or just fan of a good Senators team. It's our city, it's our team, no matter what happens we should always be behind it, no matter who's in charge or who plays. Or we're gonna lose it and we're gonna beg the NHL every single day to bring it back like people in Q.C.

I've felt a long time ago that Murray didn't inherit a very good team from Muckler. He was more or less forced to make moves to keep our head above water, Sens never needed free agency,

You can't say much good about Murray's bizarre coaching decisions.
3 players have requested trades out of Ottawa under his tenure.

Ultimately I question his assessment of the team, he thought this team was a contender ? in what universe ? Swap A-train for Gonchar and that's it ? That's all we need ?

What is this team ? is it a hard hitting defensive, a puck possession team ? He keeps changing his mind as to what the team is and it seems whatever his vision is not in sync to what the coach is preaching.

I also can't help but wonder why Murray hasn't drafted a bunch of goalies, nothing beyond Lehner it seems.

On a bit of a side note Rob Ray is getting his 2c in:

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/ray_melnyk_upset_by_murrays_refusal_to_coach/

“They’ve lost a spark and I think a big part of it is the guy behind the bench. They really, from the beginning, never bought into Cory Clouston. And, you know, they had a hard time with him in the beginning, and you know, they kind of gave into it a little bit for a while, but I just don’t think he has what it takes to keep them.”

“I’ve talked to people up there - Melnyk wants Murray to go behind the bench to finish the year coaching, and he refuses to do it, and I think it’s causing a major turmoil amongst ownership and the general manager that he’s not willing to do that, and I think you may see at the end of the year that the coach and general manager may be moved out of there.”

I don't know ... Murray is rapidly descending into Darryl Sutter territory.

marakh wrote:What I know is he was given a ticking bomb in 2007. It's pretty late and I don't feel like doing all the work, but if you have time, check the draft picks from 2002 to 2007 in the rest of the league and compare them to Regin, Elliott and FOligno. I'd argue with you that it's the worst in the league, not even debatable. Explain to me how any team in the salary cap era would survive something like that. Or may be they should have left Spezza, HEatley and FIsher hit Free agency...
I don't care if Murray made bad trades/signings or not, the fact is if this team had anything resembling a good prospect he wouldn't have needed to make those signings. Aren't you surprised he is still the GM after 4 very average to bad years? It's because Melnyk isn't an idiot and he analyzes the circumstances of Murray's moves.

The coaching choices, on the other hand, are just brutal and I don't have anything good to say about it.

Bottom line is, we're in rebuild mode and I don't care how he's been so far, I want him and Tim Murray at the draft.
I can't stand Elliott, doesn't mean I'm gonna stop wathicng games because he's in net. I'm not directing this to you in particular, but I wonder if you guys are fan of the Senators or just fan of a good Senators team. It's our city, it's our team, no matter what happens we should always be behind it, no matter who's in charge or who plays. Or we're gonna lose it and we're gonna beg the NHL every single day to bring it back like people in Q.C.

Believe me, I know about the Muckler years etc. It's what Murray supporters point to constantly (I'm not trying to single you out). But you know what? I honestly don't give a damn. This is his team now and he told us this was a contending team. To just let him off the hook because the last GM didn't draft as well as asinine. He's made A LOT of changes to the team himself that weren't FORCED. This is what I hate about Murray too, he also constantly reminds us of the poor drafting and uses it as an excuse for being inferior. I just want a GM that doesn't make excuses because that kind of thing tends to creep down to the players.

Am I a fan of the team no matter what? YES I am and I'm allowed to get pissed off. I'm not happy that the team I love is going to have to suck for 2 or 3 years now. I'm happy with the new direction but the process is going to suck and I feel like Murray contributed to it just as much, if not more then Muckler did.

marakh wrote:

Urkie wrote:

marakh wrote:I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

Predictions are just that...predictions. The on ice performance is really all I care about or you care about for that matter and the bottom line is that Murray has not assembled a good enough team. Then on top of that he keeps deflecting blame and justifying mistakes he clearly made. We deserve better then this crap...you know it and I know it.

What I know is he was given a ticking bomb in 2007. It's pretty late and I don't feel like doing all the work, but if you have time, check the draft picks from 2002 to 2007 in the rest of the league and compare them to Regin, Elliott and FOligno. I'd argue with you that it's the worst in the league, not even debatable. Explain to me how any team in the salary cap era would survive something like that. Or may be they should have left Spezza, HEatley and FIsher hit Free agency...
I don't care if Murray made bad trades/signings or not, the fact is if this team had anything resembling a good prospect he wouldn't have needed to make those signings. Aren't you surprised he is still the GM after 4 very average to bad years? It's because Melnyk isn't an idiot and he analyzes the circumstances of Murray's moves.The coaching choices, on the other hand, are just brutal and I don't have anything good to say about it.

Bottom line is, we're in rebuild mode and I don't care how he's been so far, I want him and Tim Murray at the draft.I can't stand Elliott, doesn't mean I'm gonna stop wathicng games because he's in net. I'm not directing this to you in particular, but I wonder if you guys are fan of the Senators or just fan of a good Senators team. It's our city, it's our team, no matter what happens we should always be behind it, no matter who's in charge or who plays. Or we're gonna lose it and we're gonna beg the NHL every single day to bring it back like people in Q.C.

THANK YOU! I find people these days on this site way to reactionary. yes i'm a murray supporter i'll admit it but it's also because i can imagine things don't happen in the NHL the same way then on Xbox.
murray has tried to keep this team competitive (which i imagine melnyk wanted to keep people coming to games), and you don't always get the players you wish for. and i honestly think BM and melnyk have been siltently rebuilding for a few years now. Bm was left with a big Dung pile when he took over the job as GM and he's done what he could to stay above the water till now. yep there were some questionable coaching changes, and some core guys have dissapointed but show me one NHL team that hasn't had the same problem.


so basicaly all i'm hearing from so many of the people here is we want change for the sake of change/rebuild when we probably have some of the best guys in there to take us thru that. in a few years we can evaluate again. in the mean time lets let them finish the year and summer, do the little BM / Tim flip i'm sure they've planned and be patient.



but if fenton becomes vailable...

Flo The Action wrote:

marakh wrote:

Urkie wrote:

marakh wrote:I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

Predictions are just that...predictions. The on ice performance is really all I care about or you care about for that matter and the bottom line is that Murray has not assembled a good enough team. Then on top of that he keeps deflecting blame and justifying mistakes he clearly made. We deserve better then this crap...you know it and I know it.

What I know is he was given a ticking bomb in 2007. It's pretty late and I don't feel like doing all the work, but if you have time, check the draft picks from 2002 to 2007 in the rest of the league and compare them to Regin, Elliott and FOligno. I'd argue with you that it's the worst in the league, not even debatable. Explain to me how any team in the salary cap era would survive something like that. Or may be they should have left Spezza, HEatley and FIsher hit Free agency...
I don't care if Murray made bad trades/signings or not, the fact is if this team had anything resembling a good prospect he wouldn't have needed to make those signings. Aren't you surprised he is still the GM after 4 very average to bad years? It's because Melnyk isn't an idiot and he analyzes the circumstances of Murray's moves.The coaching choices, on the other hand, are just brutal and I don't have anything good to say about it.

Bottom line is, we're in rebuild mode and I don't care how he's been so far, I want him and Tim Murray at the draft.I can't stand Elliott, doesn't mean I'm gonna stop wathicng games because he's in net. I'm not directing this to you in particular, but I wonder if you guys are fan of the Senators or just fan of a good Senators team. It's our city, it's our team, no matter what happens we should always be behind it, no matter who's in charge or who plays. Or we're gonna lose it and we're gonna beg the NHL every single day to bring it back like people in Q.C.

THANK YOU! I find people these days on this site way to reactionary. yes i'm a murray supporter i'll admit it but it's also because i can imagine things don't happen in the NHL the same way then on Xbox.
murray has tried to keep this team competitive (which i imagine melnyk wanted to keep people coming to games), and you don't always get the players you wish for. and i honestly think BM and melnyk have been siltently rebuilding for a few years now. Bm was left with a big Dung pile when he took over the job as GM and he's done what he could to stay above the water till now. yep there were some questionable coaching changes, and some core guys have dissapointed but show me one NHL team that hasn't had the same problem.


so basicaly all i'm hearing from so many of the people here is we want change for the sake of change/rebuild when we probably have some of the best guys in there to take us thru that. in a few years we can evaluate again. in the mean time lets let them finish the year and summer, do the little BM / Tim flip i'm sure they've planned and be patient.



but if fenton becomes vailable...

No team has gone through this many coaches in the past 4 years. Not one.

Other than NJ this year (and they appear to be turning a corner), I can't remember a team with this much "talent" suck this badly, unless you are talking about the last Sens team to miss the playoffs.

Flo The Action wrote:THANK YOU! I find people these days on this site way to reactionary. yes i'm a murray supporter i'll admit it but it's also because i can imagine things don't happen in the NHL the same way then on Xbox.
murray has tried to keep this team competitive (which i imagine melnyk wanted to keep people coming to games), and you don't always get the players you wish for. and i honestly think BM and melnyk have been siltently rebuilding for a few years now. Bm was left with a big Dung pile when he took over the job as GM and he's done what he could to stay above the water till now. yep there were some questionable coaching changes, and some core guys have dissapointed but show me one NHL team that hasn't had the same problem.


so basicaly all i'm hearing from so many of the people here is we want change for the sake of change/rebuild when we probably have some of the best guys in there to take us thru that. in a few years we can evaluate again. in the mean time lets let them finish the year and summer, do the little BM / Tim flip i'm sure they've planned and be patient.



but if fenton becomes vailable...

I can't speak for the others but I've loathed Murray for awhile.

He did the best he could? Well gee...I'm sure that's a great excuse. Muckler did the best he could too but you're not afraid to call him out.

To me, the bottom line is that he's assembled this current team from pretty much top to bottom and they've FAILED miserably. Why should it make it okay that because Muckler sucked, that Murray is allowed to suck too?