What if Murray stays?

wprager wrote:For the record, I think that, while Simpson is certainly entitled to his opinion as a paying season ticket holder and a fan, he is *not* entitled to flaunt his opinion on company lettterhead, nor sign the letter "National Affairs Columnist" either. Bringing CTV/GlobeMedia and Globe and Mail into this debate is wrong -- if they are not behind his position then he could and should get in trouble for this. And what does his job as a columnist have to do with his opinion on Murray?

While he may *get it* he is still an a$$ as to how he presented himself. By the way, what if had a legit #1 goalie and still had Spezza -- there's two players who would make this a playoff team.

How 'bout his endorsement of fellow Globemedia-ite, The Name Dropper?

Number Twenty Nine wrote:My God how this guy GETS it ! Brilliant!

http://the6thsens.com/2011-articles/january/simpson58930.html

Except for the part when he mentions Regis as a suitable replacement for GM.

I'll chalk that up to blind anger as he wrote this letter.

That letter is too funny.

....says the "won't worry" gang.....

Fire Eugene!!!!

Oh... wait.

Did Murray indeed say we are 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs? Is there a link to that quote or a video?

I guess if those two players are Crosby and Tim Thomas...

CockRoche wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Lehner's not the right guy if he can't work his way through this and be the better for it.

100% disagree with your opinion.

You are dealing with kids. No matter how talented or how well coached/prepared; they are still kids.

He might be a teen still, be he's been around major league talent for a long, long time. From his training with his father to Lundqvist basically staying at his house, to working his arse off to be the 2nd round pick, to being a star for the Soo Greyhounds, to making it to the pros. He knows as well as anyone that there will be stops and starts and he has to continue to concentrate.

Whamsley was working with him directly this morning according to B-Sens 'reporter' Joy - and that's a good start, to have direct contact with an experienced goalie coach. Not to mention he sends every tape of every game to his father to analyze.

shabbs wrote:Did Murray indeed say we are 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs? Is there a link to that quote or a video?

I guess if those two players are Crosby and Tim Thomas...

WTF is he talking about if true? We're more than a few players away, not to mention banking on Rundblad and Cowen to save the day might not be the best idea, nor would counting Butler as a 25 goal man just yet. Strange for him to say that, I can only assume he means dumping the deadwood on this team and replacing them with solid young players will make a marked improvement. I would advise him to be a little less optimistic for now.

SpezDispenser wrote:

shabbs wrote:Did Murray indeed say we are 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs? Is there a link to that quote or a video?

I guess if those two players are Crosby and Tim Thomas...

WTF is he talking about if true? We're more than a few players away, not to mention banking on Rundblad and Cowen to save the day might not be the best idea, nor would counting Butler as a 25 goal man just yet. Strange for him to say that, I can only assume he means dumping the deadwood on this team and replacing them with solid young players will make a marked improvement. I would advise him to be a little less optimistic for now.

His whole rant seems to be focused around that claim he says Murray made. I don't recall hearing that, maybe it was Melnyk? I don't know. I'll have to sift through the stuff again.

Agreed, we are NOT 1-2 players away from the playoffs. The Sens are in a shambles and in need of a pretty serious shakeup to help take advantage of the youth Murray is starting to bring into this team.

SpezDispenser wrote:WTF is he talking about if true? We're more than a few players away, not to mention banking on Rundblad and Cowen to save the day might not be the best idea, nor would counting Butler as a 25 goal man just yet. Strange for him to say that, I can only assume he means dumping the deadwood on this team and replacing them with solid young players will make a marked improvement. I would advise him to be a little less optimistic for now.

I also heard Murray say it and he said it when he was on the radio.

Melnyk was saying that the fans need to be patient and that he wants to build a contender again.

Murray said that he didn't think it would take all that long and he thought that by next year they could be in the playoffs again. Now I'll agree that they COULD be in the playoffs next year but I want more then just a team that makes the playoffs. I want a contending team and you don't get to that point by rushing prospects...

Melnyk and Murray in subsequent interviews claimed Murray was taken out of context with his optimism. They both claim they will be "competitive" by next year but it will likely take a few years to be true contenders again. Their goal next year will be to make the playoffs. It appears Simpson heard the first interview and ran off with his keyboard before taking in every interview after that.

Number Twenty Nine wrote:My God how this guy GETS it ! Brilliant!

http://the6thsens.com/2011-articles/january/simpson58930.html

What he doesn't get though is that you HAVE to over-pay UFA's to play in Ottawa. It's nice to hear him say the "smart" GMs are the ones that don't over pay for players who under perform etc... but the reality is that to get people to sign in Ottawa, the added incentive needs to be there, whether it's more salary, longer term or a NTC/NMC etc... unless there's a personal tie to Ottawa or it's a player we've brought up through our own system.

shabbs wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If Murray stays, I'm not watching the games next season.

Jeffrey Simpson from the Globe and Mail (National Affairs) feels the same... and sent a letter to Cyril saying he would not renew his season tickets if Murray was still the GM and demanded a change of management.

Well leave.. no one is forcing him to buy tickets. It's very easy to be a fan of a team that is winning.. and very hard to be a fan when it loses. So I guess he is a fair-weather fan.. and I can do without those types thank you.

Regardless of what happens this year/next year I will be renewing my season-tickets as I enjoy going to the games. Although the last number of games have been difficult to watch.. I do not give up on this team just because they are losing.

marakh wrote:

Urkie wrote:

marakh wrote:I don't mind people putting the blame on Murray, but did those people predicted this team to be bottom 5 at the beginning of the season? Coz I certainly didn't, so I have no idea how I could blame the roster he has assembled.
You guys don't wanna watch the games? Fine, I don't care

Predictions are just that...predictions. The on ice performance is really all I care about or you care about for that matter and the bottom line is that Murray has not assembled a good enough team. Then on top of that he keeps deflecting blame and justifying mistakes he clearly made. We deserve better then this crap...you know it and I know it.

What I know is he was given a ticking bomb in 2007. It's pretty late and I don't feel like doing all the work, but if you have time, check the draft picks from 2002 to 2007 in the rest of the league and compare them to Regin, Elliott and FOligno. I'd argue with you that it's the worst in the league, not even debatable. Explain to me how any team in the salary cap era would survive something like that. Or may be they should have left Spezza, HEatley and FIsher hit Free agency...
I don't care if Murray made bad trades/signings or not, the fact is if this team had anything resembling a good prospect he wouldn't have needed to make those signings. Aren't you surprised he is still the GM after 4 very average to bad years? It's because Melnyk isn't an idiot and he analyzes the circumstances of Murray's moves.

The coaching choices, on the other hand, are just brutal and I don't have anything good to say about it.

Bottom line is, we're in rebuild mode and I don't care how he's been so far, I want him and Tim Murray at the draft.
I can't stand Elliott, doesn't mean I'm gonna stop wathicng games because he's in net. I'm not directing this to you in particular, but I wonder if you guys are fan of the Senators or just fan of a good Senators team. It's our city, it's our team, no matter what happens we should always be behind it, no matter who's in charge or who plays. Or we're gonna lose it and we're gonna beg the NHL every single day to bring it back like people in Q.C.

You nailed that right on.. Could not have said it better myself. Fans are so quick to blame Murray for everything.. when this downfall started with Muckler. But the SCF team made people forget about that and thought Muckler was great.

Hoags wrote:I've felt a long time ago that Murray didn't inherit a very good team from Muckler. He was more or less forced to make moves to keep our head above water, Sens never needed free agency,

You can't say much good about Murray's bizarre coaching decisions.
3 players have requested trades out of Ottawa under his tenure.

Ultimately I question his assessment of the team, he thought this team was a contender ? in what universe ? Swap A-train for Gonchar and that's it ? That's all we need ?

What is this team ? is it a hard hitting defensive, a puck possession team ? He keeps changing his mind as to what the team is and it seems whatever his vision is not in sync to what the coach is preaching.

I also can't help but wonder why Murray hasn't drafted a bunch of goalies, nothing beyond Lehner it seems.

On a bit of a side note Rob Ray is getting his 2c in:

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/ray_melnyk_upset_by_murrays_refusal_to_coach/

“They’ve lost a spark and I think a big part of it is the guy behind the bench. They really, from the beginning, never bought into Cory Clouston. And, you know, they had a hard time with him in the beginning, and you know, they kind of gave into it a little bit for a while, but I just don’t think he has what it takes to keep them.”

“I’ve talked to people up there - Melnyk wants Murray to go behind the bench to finish the year coaching, and he refuses to do it, and I think it’s causing a major turmoil amongst ownership and the general manager that he’s not willing to do that, and I think you may see at the end of the year that the coach and general manager may be moved out of there.”

I don't know ... Murray is rapidly descending into Darryl Sutter territory.

I agree that Murray's coaching decisions left a lot to be desired.

Your comment about Sens never needed free agency. When Murray took over.. yes they did. This team was at the cap. Quite a few key players to sign. So some had to leave. Murray looks at Binghamton for prospects to fill the holes left.. there were none that were capable of even a bottom 6 position at that time. So free agency was the only other option. He needed players that was the only way he was going to get them.

3 players requested trades out of Ottawa. I know of 2. Corvo (a Muckler signing) could not hack playing in Canada so he wanted out. Heatley quit when the going got tough. He chose to go to a 'winner' instead of helping this team turn it around. I wonder how he likes that winning team now? I think he's on the 3rd line right now is he not, and on 2nd PP. His so called reasons for leaving Ottawa was a reduced role. Well he's certainly getting that in SJ.

Why didn't Murray draft a bunch of goalies. That's because he had to draft defensemen & forwards to get something in the way of prospects. He had to rebuild the entire prospect system. Now that he has a good base of players this team can now start looking at getting goaltenders in the draft (except this year's 1st round pick).

Murray is by no means blameless in this situation. Him signing aging players to those contracts has not worked out. But it's not like they are 5+ contract years. (Like the Habs and Gomez).

Rob Ray -- give me a break. He knows nothing about what's going on in Ottawa.

Hoags wrote:I've felt a long time ago that Murray didn't inherit a very good team from Muckler. He was more or less forced to make moves to keep our head above water, Sens never needed free agency,

You can't say much good about Murray's bizarre coaching decisions.
3 players have requested trades out of Ottawa under his tenure.

Ultimately I question his assessment of the team, he thought this team was a contender ? in what universe ? Swap A-train for Gonchar and that's it ? That's all we need ?

What is this team ? is it a hard hitting defensive, a puck possession team ? He keeps changing his mind as to what the team is and it seems whatever his vision is not in sync to what the coach is preaching.

I also can't help but wonder why Murray hasn't drafted a bunch of goalies, nothing beyond Lehner it seems.

On a bit of a side note Rob Ray is getting his 2c in:

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/ray_melnyk_upset_by_murrays_refusal_to_coach/

“They’ve lost a spark and I think a big part of it is the guy behind the bench. They really, from the beginning, never bought into Cory Clouston. And, you know, they had a hard time with him in the beginning, and you know, they kind of gave into it a little bit for a while, but I just don’t think he has what it takes to keep them.”

“I’ve talked to people up there - Melnyk wants Murray to go behind the bench to finish the year coaching, and he refuses to do it, and I think it’s causing a major turmoil amongst ownership and the general manager that he’s not willing to do that, and I think you may see at the end of the year that the coach and general manager may be moved out of there.”

I don't know ... Murray is rapidly descending into Darryl Sutter territory.

I agree that Murray's coaching decisions left a lot to be desired.

Your comment about Sens never needed free agency. When Murray took over.. yes they did. This team was at the cap. Quite a few key players to sign. So some had to leave. Murray looks at Binghamton for prospects to fill the holes left.. there were none that were capable of even a bottom 6 position at that time. So free agency was the only other option. He needed players that was the only way he was going to get them.

3 players requested trades out of Ottawa. I know of 2. Corvo (a Muckler signing) could not hack playing in Canada so he wanted out. Heatley quit when the going got tough. He chose to go to a 'winner' instead of helping this team turn it around. I wonder how he likes that winning team now? I think he's on the 3rd line right now is he not, and on 2nd PP. His so called reasons for leaving Ottawa was a reduced role. Well he's certainly getting that in SJ.

Why didn't Murray draft a bunch of goalies. That's because he had to draft defensemen & forwards to get something in the way of prospects. He had to rebuild the entire prospect system. Now that he has a good base of players this team can now start looking at getting goaltenders in the draft (except this year's 1st round pick).

Murray is by no means blameless in this situation. Him signing aging players to those contracts has not worked out. But it's not like they are 5+ contract years. (Like the Habs and Gomez).

Rob Ray -- give me a break. He knows nothing about what's going on in Ottawa.

Urkie wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Ken Hitchcock time, question mark?

It's funny that you mention Hitch because just yesterday I was thinking about whether he would be a good coach to lead the team through a rebuild.

Really, I'm not sure what to think about it but you wanna talk about a coach who holds players accountable? There's pretty much nobody else like him when it comes to that.

Rumours out there suggest that Hitchcock is not good with young players. So getting him would be another disaster.

wprager wrote:For the record, I think that, while Simpson is certainly entitled to his opinion as a paying season ticket holder and a fan, he is *not* entitled to flaunt his opinion on company lettterhead, nor sign the letter "National Affairs Columnist" either. Bringing CTV/GlobeMedia and Globe and Mail into this debate is wrong -- if they are not behind his position then he could and should get in trouble for this. And what does his job as a columnist have to do with his opinion on Murray?

While he may *get it* he is still an a$$ as to how he presented himself. By the way, what if had a legit #1 goalie and still had Spezza -- there's two players who would make this a playoff team.

Maybe Mr. Simpson should become the new GM. He seems to think he has the answers.

I am also a paying season ticket holder. However I don't 'quit' on my team when they are going through very rough times that they are now. For quite a few years this team was one of the best in the league.. so I guess fans got used to that and spoiled in a way. At some point it was going to fall. You can't keep that great team going if the foundation (prospects) beneath it crumpled due to neglect. Players had to leave -- and yes wrong free agent signings were made. But if those prospects would have been properly developed by previous management over that 6 year period there would have been some young guys to come in to fill those vacant spots.. neglecting the need for any free agents.

But there are supporters of GM's and haters of GM's. I assume Mr. Simpson is the hater.