Cullen or Spezza?

Gohan wrote:

Dash wrote:I'd still rather give an up and comer a chance., even if it is rushing them.

Look at Colorado, a team that was said to go nowhere this year but their rookies have been pleasant surprises to say the least. Duchene, O'Reilly, et al.

Give the kids a chance and they will surprise. The least they do is gain experience.

The team may struggle, but it will benefit them in the long run by saving money.

Regin-Spezza-Michalek
Kovalev-Fisher-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Winchester
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil

Phillips-Karlsson
Campoli-Gryba
Wiercioch-Carkner

Leclaire
Elliott

thought I would remind you guys about our latest free agent acquisition, who looked like he was going to fit in quite nicely in the top-6.

One player who looked great last night was Campoli. He and Cowen could very well be a tandem next year. I'm not sure where the Gryba insertion comes from ^^ and that seems unlikely for next season

From what Murray said in an interview to how he played in Bingo, if A Train doesnt get resigned, Gryba will make a serious push for that psot next to Phillips.

marakh wrote:It's not even a debatable argument anymore IMO. A rookie who played on his line was better than him. It's seriously disgusting.

It is, I dont see how people can keep backing this guy? If Spezza played ONE game that was worth his 7 million dollar salary in these playoffs, we are either going to Pitts for game 7 or the series is over and The Sens are moving on. Spezza isnt holding this team back, but he will not help them move forward.

The people who are trashing Spezza in this thread are also the people that seem to want a large return.

I know that everyone loves picks and prospects, but as long as Alfie is still around this team will not rebuild, therefore Spezza will not be dealt for anything short of a Heatley/Hossa type deal. This team doesn't need more depth pieces like Cogliano or Penner. What they need is top flite talent wether on the offensive or defensive side of the puck.

Whether we want Spezza gone or not it doesn't matter. Other GM's around the league won't pay what it will take to pry him out of Ottawa.

See, I agree with that. Spezza being dealt for Cogliano, Penner, and who ever else isnt going to do it... IMO, getting the right deal for Spezza now is the key in becoming a contender when Karlsson, Wiercoich, Cowen, Regin, Lehner, and perhaps Petersson are all front and center in Ottawa. Just like when they dealt Yashin, that trade set The Sens up to contend for years, a Spezza trade if done properly can achieve the same thing.

Spezza being dealt for salary, no shot, but again, Ill look to Atlanta as the example. If Murray can get Atlanta's 1st, Cromer, and Klinenberg, that is a deal I could live with and that gives Ottawa perhaps the best all around set of prospects in The East.

Imagine you pick up Skinner along with another 1st rounder Murray likes? This team would be and will be in fantastic shape in 3 or 4 years and even with the current roster, they will be in the playoffs.

The Sens without Spezza, IMO are still the best team in The NE division.

Watching Alfie's final years in Ottawa surrounded by kids in a mini-rebuild would be a very tough sell to fans. I'm not sure this team makes the playoffs without Spezza next year (unless we add significant roster players), and that wouldn't be fair to Alfie.

Another thing we have to think about is that Spezza has a no trade clause. What teams (if any) would he waive for? I doubt a team like Atlanta or Nashville would be on his list.

There's too many things getting in the way of Spezza trade. I'm not saying it's impossible, but all signs seem to point to keeping Spezza around (atleast until Alfie retires)

stempniaksen wrote:Watching Alfie's final years in Ottawa surrounded by kids in a mini-rebuild would be a very tough sell to fans. I'm not sure this team makes the playoffs without Spezza next year (unless we add significant roster players), and that wouldn't be fair to Alfie.

Another thing we have to think about is that Spezza has a no trade clause. What teams (if any) would he waive for? I doubt a team like Atlanta or Nashville would be on his list.

There's too many things getting in the way of Spezza trade. I'm not saying it's impossible, but all signs seem to point to keeping Spezza around (atleast until Alfie retires)

His NTC doesnt kick in until July 1, 2010. Right now he has no choice, that's why the time to do it is right now. You can get max return for him for the next 2 months, after that, The Sens are stuck. Spezza has no choice right now and The Sens can either cut bait with a guy that clearly cant carry the load or be counted on or just accept what he is, pay him his 7 mil and just spin their wheels.

This team with or without Spezza is still the best team in The NE division IMO. The goaltending is solid, the defense is only going to get better which is scary, up front it is balanced, and there is more youth coming. The Sens can be a special team in a few years but a decision is going to have to be made now about the guy the though/think would take them forward. IMO Spezza isnt the guy you want to build this team around for a number of reasons.

This year was a rebuilding year for The Sens and it was a successful one on a lot of different levels, hell, they made a run for the division. Karlsson being another year older is going to add offense in a big way all year, Campoli is going to help The Sens in a lot of different ways from the blueline as well. Anything lost by dealing Spezza wont be too hard to replace especially at playoff time. Would Cullen/Fisher/Kelly get you to the cup final? No, no shot, but Spezza/Fisher/Kelly didnt get you out of the first round. I fail to see how this team is any less competitive with or without Spezza then it was this year.

This team doesn't make the playoffs without Spezza this year, that's where the difference lies. He was easily the best player on this team for the second half of the year, on offense and was even very good on the defensive side of the puck.

Maybe Cullen, Fisher, Kelly gets us to the playoffs next year. With the way the rest of the division is getting stronger though I wouldn't want to take the risk of falling out of the playoffs all together.

Point is we have absolutly nothing to replace Spezza with, there are no top liners in the system and other than Alfie, none on the team. Unless we are swapping him for another underachieving star I fail to see how it helps us.

stempniaksen wrote:This team doesn't make the playoffs without Spezza this year, that's where the difference lies. He was easily the best player on this team for the second half of the year, on offense and was even very good on the defensive side of the puck.

Maybe Cullen, Fisher, Kelly gets us to the playoffs next year. With the way the rest of the division is getting stronger though I wouldn't want to take the risk of falling out of the playoffs all together.

Point is we have absolutly nothing to replace Spezza with, there are no top liners in the system and other than Alfie, none on the team. Unless we are swapping him for another underachieving star I fail to see how it helps us.

I think that's totally bogus. The best hockey they played this year was without Spezza and at the begining of the year when they were gettign their wins, Spezza had what? 2 goals in 20 games? The Sens didnt have Spezza for 2 months, I would argue 5 total, and they still made it and comfortably. He was easily the best player on the team for 28 games, not the 2nd half, truth be told, he began to fade down the stretch.

Like I said, IMO, replacing Spezza short term isnt a huge concern, getting his 7 million dollar cap hit and going in another direction that might actually work is. Like it or not Spezza should be carrying the load for the team, there should be conversations like "maaaan, if we didnt have Spezza I think this team might have lost that series" or "Spezza is the reason that series was close". We shouldnt be saying "if Spezza shows up against Pitts The Sens probably win that series" or "I cant believe Spezza has one 5 on 3 goals in his last 15 playoff games", or my favorite "if Spezza doenst give that puck away at the blueline the series might be totally different".

Spezza is the same player for the most part he was 3 years ago and with Alfi slowing down the question has to be asked, can Spezza do it without world class help? Can he do it with a normal amount of tallent around him? After this series the answer is pretty clear to me. He has hit his prime and he wont be improving the other area's of the game, what he is right now he will be for the rest of his career. The Sens are headed in a different direction and I think barring an out of the ordinary event like Heatley asking for a trade last year, Spezza is gone. There isnt a person in this world that can convince me if Heatley doesnt ask for a trade last summer, Spezza isnt traded. He was almost an Oiler 2 summers ago as well. Murray in the past has not only entertained the notion of Spezza being dealt, he almost pulled the trigger.

stempniaksen wrote:This team doesn't make the playoffs without Spezza this year, that's where the difference lies. He was easily the best player on this team for the second half of the year, on offense and was even very good on the defensive side of the puck.

Maybe Cullen, Fisher, Kelly gets us to the playoffs next year. With the way the rest of the division is getting stronger though I wouldn't want to take the risk of falling out of the playoffs all together.

Point is we have absolutly nothing to replace Spezza with, there are no top liners in the system and other than Alfie, none on the team. Unless we are swapping him for another underachieving star I fail to see how it helps us.

I'm not getting into this discussion on trading Spezza, but I feel the need to point out that Regin is a natural centre. Also, Spezza's value hasn't been this high since the Cup run and 16-3 start.

Also, I've never seen a player avoid contact upon entry into the zone and approaching the net quite the way #19 does...

Gohan wrote:Also, I've never seen a player avoid contact upon entry into the zone and approaching the net quite the way #19 does...

All of his shots in this series was from the side wall or above the circle. He did nothing to help The Sens in the playoffs, absolutely nothing. What he did was let other's carry his Donkey while he turns pucks over at the blueline.

Regin made Spezza look a lot better in this series then he actually was.

N4L wrote:I think that's totally bogus. The best hockey they played this year was without Spezza and at the begining of the year when they were gettign their wins, Spezza had what? 2 goals in 20 games? The Sens didnt have Spezza for 2 months, I would argue 5 total, and they still made it and comfortably. He was easily the best player on the team for 28 games, not the 2nd half, truth be told, he began to fade down the stretch.

Talk about trading Spezza all you want, but down the stretch he had 38 points in 28 games, so no, he was awesome down the stretch.

And yes, the Sens made the playoffs because of him coming in and carrying them offensively.

How can you not see that? Or are you just Diddling around? You must be Diddling around, no one looks at 40 points in 30 games and says that they weren't anything but a driving force behind getting into the post-season - especially as high as 5th.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:I think that's totally bogus. The best hockey they played this year was without Spezza and at the begining of the year when they were gettign their wins, Spezza had what? 2 goals in 20 games? The Sens didnt have Spezza for 2 months, I would argue 5 total, and they still made it and comfortably. He was easily the best player on the team for 28 games, not the 2nd half, truth be told, he began to fade down the stretch.

Talk about trading Spezza all you want, but down the stretch he had 38 points in 28 games, so no, he was awesome down the stretch.

And yes, the Sens made the playoffs because of him coming in and carrying them offensively.

How can you not see that? Or are you just Diddling around? You must be Diddling around, no one looks at 40 points in 30 games and says that they weren't anything but a driving force behind getting into the post-season - especially as high as 5th.

That is NOT why The Sens made the playoffs. They played without him for 2 months, they also played the first 1/2 of the season with his production at an all time low. They made it there because of a team effort, solid goaltending, and ok defense.

In all honesty, if people think Spezza carried this team into the playoffs they are totally out to lunch. He wasnt even in the lineup when The Sens went on their winning streak to begin with, like he did in 2007, he joined the team while they were playing their best hockey and feeded off that.

You can correct me if Im wrong here but The Sens were under 500 with Spezza in the line up from the time he returned from injury.

16-13-1 with Spezza after his injury. Pretty close to 500.

N4L wrote:
That is NOT why The Sens made the playoffs. They played without him for 2 months, they also played the first 1/2 of the season with his production at an all time low. They made it there because of a team effort, solid goaltending, and ok defense.

In all honesty, if people think Spezza carried this team into the playoffs they are totally out to lunch. He wasnt even in the lineup when The Sens went on their winning streak to begin with, like he did in 2007, he joined the team while they were playing their best hockey and feeded off that.

You can correct me if Im wrong here but The Sens were under 500 with Spezza in the line up from the time he returned from injury.

He came back and registered 38 points in 28 games, that's almost all there is to it. When the BS started to stop and Kovalev started to cool off again, this team needed a hero to avoid becoming caught in that 6,7,8,9,10 jam and they got contributions from everyone - none more than Jason Spezza's.

Yes, this is a team now and yes there were other contributing factors, but I'd say the Sens made the playoffs and solidified their position because of these two guys:

1.Brian Elliott - final 29 games of the season, .921, 2.19
2.Jason Spezza - final 28 games of the season, 38 points.

and to a lesser extent, but still VERY important Erik Karlsson.

Again, you can talk about trading Spezza all you want, but you cannot deny the black and white facts of the matter.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
That is NOT why The Sens made the playoffs. They played without him for 2 months, they also played the first 1/2 of the season with his production at an all time low. They made it there because of a team effort, solid goaltending, and ok defense.

In all honesty, if people think Spezza carried this team into the playoffs they are totally out to lunch. He wasnt even in the lineup when The Sens went on their winning streak to begin with, like he did in 2007, he joined the team while they were playing their best hockey and feeded off that.

You can correct me if Im wrong here but The Sens were under 500 with Spezza in the line up from the time he returned from injury.

He came back and registered 38 points in 28 games, that's almost all there is to it. When the BS started to stop and Kovalev started to cool off again, this team needed a hero to avoid becoming caught in that 6,7,8,9,10 jam and they got contributions from everyone - none more than Jason Spezza's.

Yes, this is a team now and yes there were other contributing factors, but I'd say the Sens made the playoffs and solidified their position because of these two guys:

1.Brian Elliott - final 29 games of the season, .921, 2.19
2.Jason Spezza - final 28 games of the season, 38 points.

and to a lesser extent, but still VERY important Erik Karlsson.

Again, you can talk about trading Spezza all you want, but you cannot deny the black and white facts of the matter.

16-13-1 with Spezza back from injury. It isnt like The Sens were unbeatable in the time Spezza was back, in fact, they needed fantastic goaltending to get things back on track.

The beinging of the season they got off to a rocket of a start and 5 or 6 games before Spezza got back they were domianting the compition. Spezza came back when all things were firing and he fed off that. He is def not the reason they made the playoffs, he was part of a team that did it.

N4L wrote:
16-13-1 with Spezza back from injury. It isnt like The Sens were unbeatable in the time Spezza was back, in fact, they needed fantastic goaltending to get things back on track.

The beinging of the season they got off to a rocket of a start and 5 or 6 games before Spezza got back they were domianting the compition. Spezza came back when all things were firing and he fed off that. He is def not the reason they made the playoffs, he was part of a team that did it.

Take away Spezza's 38 points in those 29 games and the Sens fall to about 8-21-1. Spezza sucked arse in the playoffs, but when we needed to get our sorry arses into a spot, he was around, no question. It's if he can recognize along with Clouston what he continues to fail at and makes a cognisant decision to change it.

The guy's got so much talent, and when he plays the 2-way game where he gets into the takeaway game, he's so good. He's almost unbeatable when he gets body position on guys along the boards and his passes are second to none.

Everyone knows what's lacking. It's up to him and Clouston to rectify it (or not and he gets traded, who knows).

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
16-13-1 with Spezza back from injury. It isnt like The Sens were unbeatable in the time Spezza was back, in fact, they needed fantastic goaltending to get things back on track.

The beinging of the season they got off to a rocket of a start and 5 or 6 games before Spezza got back they were domianting the compition. Spezza came back when all things were firing and he fed off that. He is def not the reason they made the playoffs, he was part of a team that did it.

Take away Spezza's 38 points in those 29 games and the Sens fall to about 8-21-1. Spezza sucked arse in the playoffs, but when we needed to get our sorry arses into a spot, he was around, no question. It's if he can recognize along with Clouston what he continues to fail at and makes a cognisant decision to change it.

The guy's got so much talent, and when he plays the 2-way game where he gets into the takeaway game, he's so good. He's almost unbeatable when he gets body position on guys along the boards and his passes are second to none.

Everyone knows what's lacking. It's up to him and Clouston to rectify it (or not and he gets traded, who knows).

Ummm, what? That's just a made up number based on nothing. They were winning without him like The Sens ALWAYS do.

Anyways I really hope people dont expect Spezza's game to change, it wont. That much was clear, when things get hard, buh bye Spezza, no where to be seen.

Clouston has nothing to do with Spezza. I would say Murray already knows what he is going to do.