Cullen or Spezza?

Both, there's no reason we can't have both, so I want both.

Last 3 years and moving forward, I take Spezza

C'mon dude we all know you hate Spezza but seriously Spezza is 6 years younger than Cullen, and over the last 3 years with only 9 games difference, Spezza has 222 points versus Cullens 140. Not to mention a better plus/minus.

Cullen was very good in the playoffs this year for us but, without Spezza we don't even make the playoffs-and thats a fact.

Spezza is far from perfect but when I look at this team 2-3 years from now I see Spezza playing with Regin, Foligno, Fisher, Cowen, Wiercoch, Lehrner, etc., not a 35 year old Cullen.

Cullen is not now, nor will he ever be our first line centre.

And I am asking nicely, can you start talking about something else, this is getting wayyyyyy old....

I know Spezza had a bad playoff, but the fact you think this is even poll worthy is laughable and shows an obvious bias.

Look at past cup winners, all of those teams had arguable two top line centers. The problem isn't that we have Spezza, it's that we don't have anyone to take pressure off of him when guys can key in on him.

I like what Fisher brings to the table, and he is a legit 2nd line center, but he's not a 2nd line center on a championship caliber team. Spezza has had his struggles, but this team needs to surrond that type of talent better, not ship it away.

By the way, the Sens would be without a true #1 center, a true #1 defenceman and a true #1 goalie if you dealt Spezza away. That's a recipe for disaster on it's own, no matter how deep we are.

stempniaksen wrote:I know Spezza had a bad playoff, but the fact you think this is even poll worthy is laughable and shows an obvious bias.

Look at past cup winners, all of those teams had arguable two top line centers. The problem isn't that we have Spezza, it's that we don't have anyone to take pressure off of him when guys can key in on him.

I like what Fisher brings to the table, and he is a legit 2nd line center, but he's not a 2nd line center on a championship caliber team. Spezza has had his struggles, but this team needs to surrond that type of talent better, not ship it away.

By the way, the Sens would be without a true #1 center, a true #1 defenceman and a true #1 goalie if you dealt Spezza away. That's a recipe for disaster on it's own, no matter how deep we are.

That's a BS excuse. The line of Cullen/Fisher/Alfi was amazing for The Sens and produced, PK'd, and did everything possible. Alfi was more effective then Spezza playing with 1/2 a body.

You say Fisher isnt a 2nd line center on a championship team, well, Spezza defently isnt a 1st line center on one.

Spezza needs to be surrounded by tallent? I agree, he does. He needs two all-star wingers to do anything worthy of being considered a number 1 center. Spezza should be making other guys better, not the other way around. He does make 7 million dollars, if you need another 7 million dollar player to play with Spezza, well, you're team is in a lot of trouble.

Fact of the matter is Spezza isnt going to lead this team anywhere, he isnt a leader, he isnt a franchise player, and he most certainly isnt someone the team can count on in crunch time. For The Sens to move forward, Spezza needs to go because it isnt working.

Why does it have to be an either/or situation. Cullen is a proven playoff performer, but you still need to get to the playoffs and without a number 1 centre you won't get there.

The best hockey The Sens play is without Spezza as well. I agree Cullen isnt going to get you there, but it's not like Spezza picked this team up and dragged them into the playoffs.

The Sens are a playoff team with or without Spezza.

N4L wrote:The best hockey The Sens play is without Spezza as well. I agree Cullen isnt going to get you there, but it's not like Spezza picked this team up and dragged them into the playoffs.

The Sens are a playoff team with or without Spezza.

I desperately want Cullen to stay although it does create a quandry.

There are 2 lines I would not touch:

Alfie - Cullen - Fisher
Ruttu - Kelly - Neil

I would also like:

??????? - Winchester - Smith

That leaves

Regin, Spezza, Michalek, Kovalev, Foligno

If Foligno plays 4th line with Winnie and Smith, who is the odd man out. It won't be Regin or Michalek (if he is ready to start the season). Can you move Kovalev's contract, I doubt it. So what now ? Maybe Spezza and Cowen for Weber ?

I would send Spezza to the all-star game and Cullen to the Stanley Cup finals.

Seriously though, I like Cullen's team game better than Spezza's for sure, but I won't say that I would replace Spezza with Cullen. I would trade Spezza for something of reasonable value, but I'm not confident Murray will find it. If that happens, Cullen could hold the fort as a No. 1 Center and what his line would lack in offense we may very well make up in defense. We'll see.

Does anyone know the Sens record with Spezza in the lineup vs. without?

Ottawa has got to be careful with handing out contracts to guys who are or are on the verge of 35. Jason Smith's contract could have burned us, and Kovalev's been pretty disappointing, We better not be handing out $3M contracts to Sutton and or Cullen. You want to play here, you take half that, or go elsewhere. The discount is for the chance to make the playoffs,

True, but in Cullen's case there is no sign of slowing down. He looks great out there.

You never know though, and you just have to be aware of that.

Foligno and Regin are RFAs. Smith looked like he belonged out there. Winchester has been a part of this team for basically the past 2 seasons. Where do these guys fit?

Foligno-Spezza-Regin
Cullen-Fisher-Alfie
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil
Smith-Winchester-Donovan

and Campoli is a RFA:

Philly-Volch
Karlsson-Sutton
Campoli-Carkner

and then you gotta plug in Michalek, Kovalev and Kuba unless something happens.

Well here's some good news for N4L,

Bob Mackenize thinks Spezza is on the outs, because of exactly what everyones problem with him this series was - he was around in a winning-offensive role.

Its one of the videos on the TSN.ca right now. "Close but no cigar"

Huge praise from Panger and MacT though

I think a deal will be made with Edmonton.
It makes too much sense. We've talked about hundreds of times before in here. If Edmonton can add Spezza and Hall/Seguin in one offseason and bring back a healthy Hemsky, they'd give the fans some hope for change. And Spezza would be the big ticket player they haven't had since Pronger left.

Here's the thing: what would the reasonable return in an Edmonton trade be?

N4L wrote:The best hockey The Sens play is without Spezza as well. I agree Cullen isnt going to get you there, but it's not like Spezza picked this team up and dragged them into the playoffs.

The Sens are a playoff team with or without Spezza.

the sens would not have made the playoffs this year without Spezzas contribution-the ten game win streak that got us in was due in a large part to spezzas play, dont fool yourself.

111519 wrote:

N4L wrote:The best hockey The Sens play is without Spezza as well. I agree Cullen isnt going to get you there, but it's not like Spezza picked this team up and dragged them into the playoffs.

The Sens are a playoff team with or without Spezza.

the sens would not have made the playoffs this year without Spezzas contribution-the ten game win streak that got us in was due in a large part to Elliott's play, dont fool yourself.

Fixed.

You gotta start with a center and Gagner is best you can have in terms of age/potential/talent. Then you can add I don't know, a pick, some prospects...

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:

N4L wrote:The best hockey The Sens play is without Spezza as well. I agree Cullen isnt going to get you there, but it's not like Spezza picked this team up and dragged them into the playoffs.

The Sens are a playoff team with or without Spezza.

the sens would not have made the playoffs this year without Spezzas contribution-the ten game win streak that got us in was due in a large part to Elliott's play, dont fool yourself.

Fixed.

Ill agree Elliott was a key factor if you agree its hard to win 10 games straight if you are relying on your goalie to score.

Neely didn't say we were a 5th place team without Spezza, he said a playoff team. That allows for a few more losses really.

i think edmonton would look at Spezza and Kuba

for Penner, Cogliano and Souray.

It fits cap wise.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Alexei Kovalev ($5.000m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m) / Milan Michalek ($4.333m)
* Dustin Penner ($4.250m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / * Matt Cullen ($2.875m)
Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m) / Jarkko Ruutu ($1.300m)
* Andrew Cogliano ($1.250m) / * Nick Foligno ($1.250m) / * Peter Regin ($1.250m)
Zack Smith ($0.583m)
DEFENSEMEN
* Sheldon Souray ($5.400m) / Chris Phillips ($3.500m)
* Andy Sutton ($2.500m) / Jared Cowen ($1.325m)
Erik Karlsson ($1.300m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Pascal Leclaire ($3.800m) / Brian Elliott ($0.850m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $55.929m; CAP ROOM: $1.721m BONUSES: $0.850m

That looks like a tough playoff team doesnt it?

111519 wrote:i think edmonton would look at Spezza and Kuba

for Penner, Cogliano and Souray.

It fits cap wise.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Alexei Kovalev ($5.000m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m) / Milan Michalek ($4.333m)
* Dustin Penner ($4.250m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / * Matt Cullen ($2.875m)
Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m) / Jarkko Ruutu ($1.300m)
* Andrew Cogliano ($1.250m) / * Nick Foligno ($1.250m) / * Peter Regin ($1.250m)
Zack Smith ($0.583m)
DEFENSEMEN
* Sheldon Souray ($5.400m) / Chris Phillips ($3.500m)
* Andy Sutton ($2.500m) / Jared Cowen ($1.325m)
Erik Karlsson ($1.300m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Pascal Leclaire ($3.800m) / Brian Elliott ($0.850m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $55.929m; CAP ROOM: $1.721m BONUSES: $0.850m

That first line makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.