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PLAYOFF GAME DAY: Game 6: Pittsburgh Penguins (3) @ Ottawa Senators (2) - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Apr. 24th, 2010

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M_Christopher
LeCaptain
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Gohan wrote:
N4L wrote:Ya, I dont think there is anything to really worry about with Clouston and Murray. MAYBE Murray questions why the hell he kept putting Spezza out there against Crosby, a lot of people questioned that though.
I question a lot of things he did in this series, but I also realize he's a rookie coach in his first professional playoff series. I would imagine Murray sees it in that context also. In terms of Spezza on Crosby, Murray went power on power all the way to the Cup Final back in 07...I'm not saying all things are equal, but Spezza does have experience in that capacity.

Haha, I agree buuuuuut I think we all know now, at best, Spezza is in that 2nd teir of NHL players to say the least. I agree with the rookie coach though, there is a lot to learn as well and what Clouston has done in the last 15 months is impressive.

LeCaptain


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Dash wrote:He's also a top 10 projected pick.

Not on TSN's list, and the size might scare some people. Shroeder was taken 22nd overall which is quite stunning.

Nice plays in there:

Guest


Guest

Ya, a lot of people seem high on that Swiss kid but I dont see all that much in terms of intangibles and other things that will make him successful at the next level. Like I said, the guy I really want is Skinner and I did mention Johanssen earlier in the year but they would have to draft in the top 10 to get him IMO.

asq2

asq2
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N4L wrote:Bobby Mac defently thinks a shake up to the core is coming and it might be Spezza, like M.C said earlier.

In all honesty, I want to watch The Sens play live again but I just wont pay for a ticket to watch Spezza being paid what he is for nothing but gutless efforts come playoff time.

For ****'s sake, he was at worst our #3 forward the first two games in Pittsburgh. He should be #1, but you sound like he's the forward equivalent of Andrew Alberts. Guy was skating hard, throwing checks, made some great defensive plays, and put up 7 points in 6 games. Sometimes it feels like every statement builds on the last one to the point where it gets out of hand.

Here's a transcript of the video you're referencing. They spend the first two minutes of the video complimenting the Sens and then McKenzie hesitantly adds that there are still question marks.

For example, Jason Spezza. You’ve gotta wonder what his long-term future [is]. Now, his contract would suggest he’s going to be there for a good long time; he’s got another five years left at $7 million per year on the cap-hit. But the fans, the relationship he’s got with the fans – every time he turns the puck over he was getting booed. The fact that he was not front and centre in an offensive role in a winning situation…I mean, when it came to crunch time, who’s the line that got it done? It was Cullen, it was Alfredsson, it was Fisher, it was Kelly, it was Ruutu, it was Neil, uh..Regin, the young kid stepped up and did good things offensively. So...I...you know, there may be a changing of the guard somewhere along the line here and I think there are going to be some real hard questions about Jason Spezza and his future with the hockey team.

Strong words, certainly, and not necessarily words that I disagree with. But it's not like they're going "OMG Major tradez impending!" Ahhhhh!

asq2

asq2
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N4L wrote:Ya, a lot of people seem high on that Swiss kid but I dont see all that much in terms of intangibles and other things that will make him successful at the next level. Like I said, the guy I really want is Skinner and I did mention Johanssen earlier in the year but they would have to draft in the top 10 to get him IMO.

Actually a lot of people - or on HF at least - consider Nino's intangibles to be what make him as high-ranking as he is.

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asq2 wrote:
N4L wrote:Ya, a lot of people seem high on that Swiss kid but I dont see all that much in terms of intangibles and other things that will make him successful at the next level. Like I said, the guy I really want is Skinner and I did mention Johanssen earlier in the year but they would have to draft in the top 10 to get him IMO.

Actually a lot of people - or on HF at least - consider Nino's intangibles to be what make him as high-ranking as he is.

Yaaa, HF isnt exactly the place I look at for a good opinion to say the least.

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asq2 wrote:
N4L wrote:Bobby Mac defently thinks a shake up to the core is coming and it might be Spezza, like M.C said earlier.

In all honesty, I want to watch The Sens play live again but I just wont pay for a ticket to watch Spezza being paid what he is for nothing but gutless efforts come playoff time.

For ****'s sake, he was at worst our #3 forward the first two games in Pittsburgh. He should be #1, but you sound like he's the forward equivalent of Andrew Alberts. Guy was skating hard, throwing checks, made some great defensive plays, and put up 7 points in 6 games. Sometimes it feels like every statement builds on the last one to the point where it gets out of hand.

Here's a transcript of the video you're referencing. They spend the first two minutes of the video complimenting the Sens and then McKenzie hesitantly adds that there are still question marks.

For example, Jason Spezza. You’ve gotta wonder what his long-term future [is]. Now, his contract would suggest he’s going to be there for a good long time; he’s got another five years left at $7 million per year on the cap-hit. But the fans, the relationship he’s got with the fans – every time he turns the puck over he was getting booed. The fact that he was not front and centre in an offensive role in a winning situation…I mean, when it came to crunch time, who’s the line that got it done? It was Cullen, it was Alfredsson, it was Fisher, it was Kelly, it was Ruutu, it was Neil, uh..Regin, the young kid stepped up and did good things offensively. So...I...you know, there may be a changing of the guard somewhere along the line here and I think there are going to be some real hard questions about Jason Spezza and his future with the hockey team.

Strong words, certainly, and not necessarily words that I disagree with. But it's not like they're going "OMG Major tradez impending!" Ahhhhh!

Spezza had a good game 1, I agree. Game 2? Really? He was directly at fault for Crosby's 1st goal and was basically domianted that entire game by him. Game 3 he was beyond awful, game 4, well that gaff IMO cost The Sens the series. You can debate that if you wish but that's how I feel about that play, that was a dagger to The Sens and any hopes they had of winning that series.

Point is, when The Sens needed him the most he wasnt there. I have always said when talking about Spezza "we'll see how he does when things get a little tough and things dont go his way", well, you get the answer almost every time, it doesnt change. I dont care what your opinion is on Spezza be it keep him, he can be a franchise player, he's worthless, w/e, one thing that cannot be denied or ignored is the fact he wasnt good in the playoffs and hasnt been for sometime.

asq2

asq2
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Also, Neely, who do you see coming from Atlanta? I've already stated that Little + Klingberg + 1st doesn't fill our most principal need. Bogosian will be awesome and is one of my favourite players in the NHL but with Cowen, Karlsson and Wiercioch already in tow we need Bogo less than we need a top-line centre. Also, as an alternate captain already at 19, he goes nowhere.

What would be awesome from Atlanta is Evander Kane (who is on my original list). But there's no chance they move him IMO.

asq2

asq2
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HF's publication is not always spot-on but there are a tonne of incredibly knowledgeable posters in the Prospects forum.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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I agree, Spezza was weak this playoffs - even while producing points - but I think there's a time when the trading stops and the coaching begins. Clouston sees what we see about Spezza, I guarantee it - and if HE thinks Spezza needs to go, then it gets done, but if he thinks he can continue to work with him in terms of how he wants him to react to on-ice situations, then he won't be traded.

If I were Clouston, I would love to work with Jason Spezza. He made him a lot better this season IMO - and while the playoffs weren't great for Spezza, I would relish continuing to work with him this off-season and next year to continue turning him into a Lecavallier or even better - a Datsyuk - a dude who gives up the puck, but is hungry to get it back.

Not sure I'd give up on Spezza personally, but we'll see where he falls in with Clouston I guess.

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asq2 wrote:Also, Neely, who do you see coming from Atlanta? I've already stated that Little + Klingberg + 1st doesn't fill our most principal need. Bogosian will be awesome and is one of my favourite players in the NHL but with Cowen, Karlsson and Wiercioch already in tow we need Bogo less than we need a top-line centre. Also, as an alternate captain already at 19, he goes nowhere.

What would be awesome from Atlanta is Evander Kane (who is on my original list). But there's no chance they move him IMO.

A guy like Perverly could be had in a deal for Spezza, I am by no means saying he is a number 1 center but he is very solid. Klinenberg, Perverly, and Atlanta's 1st, why not? That's a deal I think wouldnt hurt The Sens short term and would absolutely help them 3 or 4 years down the road.

LeCaptain

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Whatever guys:

http://senators.nhl.com/

Amazing

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SpezDispenser wrote:I agree, Spezza was weak this playoffs - even while producing points - but I think there's a time when the trading stops and the coaching begins. Clouston sees what we see about Spezza, I guarantee it - and if HE thinks Spezza needs to go, then it gets done, but if he thinks he can continue to work with him in terms of how he wants him to react to on-ice situations, then he won't be traded.

If I were Clouston, I would love to work with Jason Spezza. He made him a lot better this season IMO - and while the playoffs weren't great for Spezza, I would relish continuing to work with him this off-season and next year to continue turning him into a Lecavallier or even better - a Datsyuk - a dude who gives up the puck, but is hungry to get it back.

Not sure I'd give up on Spezza personally, but we'll see where he falls in with Clouston I guess.

Unless you put Alfi's heart in Spezza's body, he isnt going to change. I mean, how many years would you like to have this conversation? The guy is in his prime and production wise he has regressed and like I said last year at this time, his best years offensivly will be the ones when he was 23 and 24. I think he's peaked and have thought that for a while.

PTFlea

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N4L wrote:
Unless you put Alfi's heart in Spezza's body, he isnt going to change. I mean, how many years would you like to have this conversation? The guy is in his prime and production wise he has regressed and like I said last year at this time, his best years offensivly will be the ones when he was 23 and 24. I think he's peaked and have thought that for a while.

How close did Detroit come to trading Datsyuk - and how far back would that have set them. At some point you have to say, this is what we have, let's see if we can tweak his game and go for it.

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Yeah, 1, Spezza doesnt have Datsyuk's tallent, 2, Spezza isnt a smart enough hockey player to play like Datsyuk, 3, Spezza doesnt have the drive and determination Datsyuk has either.

You put those two head to head and Spezza looks like he did against Crosby. It's not even close.

At some point? Ummmm, you mean the last 3 years? Jesus, if Heatley didnt ask for a trade Spezza wouldnt even be here, his game isnt goign to change. When the going gets tough, Spezza is no where to be found.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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N4L wrote:Yeah, 1, Spezza doesnt have Datsyuk's tallent, 2, Spezza isnt a smart enough hockey player to play like Datsyuk, 3, Spezza doesnt have the drive and determination Datsyuk has either.

You put those two head to head and Spezza looks like he did against Crosby. It's not even close.

At some point? Ummmm, you mean the last 3 years? Jesus, if Heatley didnt ask for a trade Spezza wouldnt even be here, his game isnt goign to change. When the going gets tough, Spezza is no where to be found.

Those were the same arguments made against Datsyuk. Silky smooth until the going gets tough, then he fades. Not enough grit to be a playoff performer.

Guest


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Spezza is not and never will be a Selke candodate, sorry man. That's what Datsyuk is and his offense doesnt suffer because of it. Spezza will never be the player Datsyuk is, it's actually not possible.

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Also, how many years did Datsyuk have in the league at that point? 3, 4? He and Spezza are basically on the same time line and it's not even close who has developed into the better player.

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