GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
Im not argueing that, Thornton is a loser (even though he's won a ton more then Spezza) and I think he's a dirt bag too, but if that's how you want to replace your 1st line center, if that is indeed the issue people have a problem with, that's a way to do it.

Personally, I think Spezza should be dealt for picks and prospects and worrying about a 1st line guy is secondary.

What has Thornton won? The World Cup? The Olympics? Screw that, talk to me when he's done something where he's the top talented guy on the team - like in San Jose for instance.

I enjoyed watching the Olympics, it was fun, but Canada winning meant nothing compared to a Stanley Cup. To me you could win every pee-wee championship out there, Memorial Cup, World Cup, whatever and then never win a Stanley Cup and to me that renders everything else 100% useless.

He was the league's MVP and scoring leader too, World Jr Championship too. Look, what ever you want to say about Thornton I agree with, hell, I know more about his off ice crap then everyone here and as bad as you think he is, he is probably worse. He was a non factor in The Olympics, he mails it in, in the playoffs, so on.

My point is, if the 1st line center that leaves Ottawa has to e replaced, well, there ya go. You cant use the pro's for Spezza saying he is a PPG, he is a legit number 1 center, then say, "well, Thornton it doesnt matter, he's a loser". That's picking and choosing your arguement.

I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

N4L wrote:
He was the league's MVP and scoring leader too, World Jr Championship too. Look, what ever you want to say about Thornton I agree with, hell, I know more about his off ice crap then everyone here and as bad as you think he is, he is probably worse. He was a non factor in The Olympics, he mails it in, in the playoffs, so on.

My point is, if the 1st line center that leaves Ottawa has to e replaced, well, there ya go. You cant use the pro's for Spezza saying he is a PPG, he is a legit number 1 center, then say, "well, Thornton it doesnt matter, he's a loser". That's picking and choosing your arguement.

I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

We need to replace that offense, but we still need to change directions in terms of the player we get back. If Spezza goes, then we nee to change that player into someone who plays both ends of the ice really well. I don't think I'll shut up about Brad Richards until he's extended by Dallas. That's such a perfect guy for Ottawa.

N4L wrote:
I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
He was the league's MVP and scoring leader too, World Jr Championship too. Look, what ever you want to say about Thornton I agree with, hell, I know more about his off ice crap then everyone here and as bad as you think he is, he is probably worse. He was a non factor in The Olympics, he mails it in, in the playoffs, so on.

My point is, if the 1st line center that leaves Ottawa has to e replaced, well, there ya go. You cant use the pro's for Spezza saying he is a PPG, he is a legit number 1 center, then say, "well, Thornton it doesnt matter, he's a loser". That's picking and choosing your arguement.

I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

We need to replace that offense, but we still need to change directions in terms of the player we get back. If Spezza goes, then we nee to change that player into someone who plays both ends of the ice really well. I don't think I'll shut up about Brad Richards until he's extended by Dallas. That's such a perfect guy for Ottawa.

Look, number 1 centers are not picked up off of the UFA market, they are either traded are developed within the organization. There are probably 1 or 2 guys in this up coming draft The Sens can target for that, Skinner, MAYBE McFarland ( a lot like Getzlaf IMO) and perhaps can turn into legit front line guys, but until then, it's going to be slim pickings for The Sens up the middle, production is going to have to be balanced. Look at Nashville, they dont have a legit 1st line guy, never have and are competitive every year (Ottawa is very much looking like their model).

Point is The Sens will one day have a number 1 center that they can count on, but they will have to be developed and brought up through the organization with a new core and old leadership. Guys like Winchester, Smith, Butler, Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercoich, Lehner, Michalek Regin, and Gryba are all in that young age group, and that will indeed be the core one day and it should start sooner then later.

Keep character around like Fisher (despite his struggles), Phillips, Alfi, Kelly, and Neil to bring this core along, help them develope in Ottawa Senators, not just good hockey players. It's important to build the players the right way and develope them, maybe more so then their overall tallent.

Hoags wrote:
Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

Yeah, I'd do that without hesitation.

There is a ton of depth in Ottawa's system on the blueline, Lehner may very well be the real deal and a star number 1 in the making, Ottawa's depth up front is a little concerning but one of Grant or Petersson will probably be a top 6 guy. There is a ton to look forward to IF things are done the right way, so far they have.

The next step? Getting Spezza away from anything resembling youth in Ottawa because he could tear that down being the front line guy. If he gets dealt for a late 1st and some prospects, that's fine with me. Again, I look to Atlanta who has Cormier, Klinenberg, and extra 1st, some other prospects or perhaps a Brian Little that could step in to a top 6 role.

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:
I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

I predict a Spezza/Kovalev for Vinny/St. Louis deal.

N4L wrote:There is a ton of depth in Ottawa's system on the blueline, Lehner may very well be the real deal and a star number 1 in the making, Ottawa's depth up front is a little concerning but one of Grant or Petersson will probably be a top 6 guy. There is a ton to look forward to IF things are done the right way, so far they have.

The next step? Getting Spezza away from anything resembling youth in Ottawa because he could tear that down being the front line guy. If he gets dealt for a late 1st and some prospects, that's fine with me. Again, I look to Atlanta who has Cormier, Klinenberg, and extra 1st, some other prospects or perhaps a Brian Little that could step in to a top 6 role.

You've got a fair idea there, although, I'm no longer 100% sold on Little. You're a year too early though I think.

Little in a package if they are looking for someone right away to fill a void in the top 6.

Something like Klinenberg, Little, and NJ 1st.

why was hoffman drafted so late? seems weird.. usually its cause the player is short but I read that he's 5'11

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:
I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

I predict a Spezza/Kovalev for Vinny/St. Louis deal.

I would run around the streets naked if that happened!

DirtyDave wrote:why was hoffman drafted so late? seems weird.. usually its cause the player is short but I read that he's 5'11

He didn't really get it going until he was an over-ager I think, like Z.Smith.

SensGirl11 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:
I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

I predict a Spezza/Kovalev for Vinny/St. Louis deal.

I would run around the streets naked if that happened!

And I will drive up to Ottawa and join you!!!

SensGal wrote:

SensGirl11 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:
I think he should be dealt for young prospects/picks and a top 6 guy perhaps.

Vinnie's the only guy I can think of that I'd pull the trigger on, assuming we could make the numbers work and Tampa would be willing to do it.

I predict a Spezza/Kovalev for Vinny/St. Louis deal.

I would run around the streets naked if that happened!

And I will drive up to Ottawa and join you!!!

Intriguing.

Haha, it really is.

But really, getting rid of Kovalev and Spezza for Vinny and St Louis!!! WOW!!!!

If that happens, I'll even con some of my nursing friends into joining me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KWNdXScjg

Are people seriously saying we need to get cap flexibility, and then advocating acquiring Lecavalier? Are you aware that, at 30 years old, Vinny has a cap-hit of almot $8 million a season on a contract that will last another 10 years? Vinny, who produced at a 0.85 PPG clip this season and a 0.87 PPG clip last season? That guy?

Don't even get me started on Thornton.

I think we need to get real, to a certain extent, about "getting cap space" as well. Our post-lock-out free agent signings are: a 37-year-old Alex Kovalev at 2 years $10 million, who only signed here to be close to Montreal anyway, Jarkko Ruutu who admittedly has worked out great but is not exactly a first-line centreman, Martin Gerber at 3 years $11.1 million or thereabouts, Dean McAmmond, Randy Robitaille, Joe Corvo, Luke Richardson, and a 39-year-old Dominik Hasek.

Hasek and Kovalev are the only two marquee signings (sorry Gerbage) and at their ages, both were quite risky - although it paid off in Hasek's case, however temporarily. Free agents generally only go to the teams that pay them the most ridiculously - and Murray's quite thankfully been gun-shy in the case of players like Brian Campbell - and even then, unless they have local roots they prefer cities like New York or Philadelphia. Or, they sign more reasonably with contenders - like Hossa in Detroit or Chicago - but even when we were at the top of the league, we were never dragging in free agent talent. You think primo FAs are now going to be attracted when our first line centre is Mike Fisher?

If you trade Spezza, it has to be about the return and not about having room to sign people. Players of Spezza's age and calibre almost never hit the market (only Kovalchuk counts this season IMO) and when they do, they sign mega-deals in mega-markets. We have no one in the organization capable of being a #1 centre apart from Spezza, and he's young enough to be around when the young core has developed but, obviously, already has 400+ points in the NHL and is a key part of the current team.

Defence is taken care of, goal-tending could be better but not at the expense of our offence, and wing could stand some improvement but that will probably come at the draft. Centre, if Spezza leaves, would pretty obviously be the chief area of concern. I've listed all the centres I think could adequately fill Spezza's absence; if you can't acquire them, though, I don't see how it helps this team to get rid of him. We are not going to ameliorate our centre situation by dumping Spezza and pursuing free agents.

As always, well said and well thought out Asq.