ALL Spezza talk - to trade, not to trade, rant, rave etc.

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:
A Stanley Cup.

And? The Canes took on the 8th seed from the West and barely squeezed by. We took on the best team of the last 5 years and got crushed. Would Staal have changed anything that happened vs Anaheim? No.

I'm sorry but Staal has never had one player of the calibre of an Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing, let alone two.

He's a Stanley Cup champion and he had 28 points (9G, 19A) in that playoff run as well as another 15 points (10G, 5A) in last year's playoffs.

So it's not like he was just along for the ride.

So when is this deal going down? Before or after the Filatov deal?

asq2 wrote:

PKC wrote:

asq2 wrote:OK, I just watched the first period from last night. I get that he's not playing well enough for the money he makes, but some of us *cough* are writing as if he's absolutely useless.

I counted numerous times that he set up prime scoring chances, including a goal-post by Alfredsson, and outmuscled players behind the net. The problem is he's not producing, but the key argument so far has been that he's doing nothing outside of his statistics. I'm not sure I buy that.

Well at a certain point you need him to stop setting up chances and start setting up some Diddling goals.

15 points for our "#1 center" in 24 games is ridiculously unacceptable.

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that the arguments against Spezza are supposed to be denigrating him in regards to what happens off the scoresheet. There's no question he needs to be on the scoresheet more often.

I'm not saying he's never trying...but you can't argue the fact that he looks lost out there most of the time. And it's not like it's a team thing either. Other guys, namely the Fishers, Michaleks and Alfredssons of the team are out there going to the net, getting dirty, simplifying their game, not trying to be cute with the puck all the time. And then you have Jason who's more predictable than an episode of Days of Our Lives with the puck, always curling at the half boards, always trying to get 60 feet across the ice from one half board to the other.

Notice how our goals have been scored this year, by throwing the puck on net and getting bodies in there. Not by trying to dangle through everyone in the first level of seating and then trying to spin around with your stick and throw the puck out to a defender.

It's pathetic. He's paid to be creative, to draw attention to him, to make players better by putting them into above average scoring chances. All I see is players on his line confused by his play, not knowing where to go. And I can't honestly be convinced that he doesn't have linemates that are skilled enough to finish his plays. That's just Dung.

PKC wrote:

asq2 wrote:OK, I just watched the first period from last night. I get that he's not playing well enough for the money he makes, but some of us *cough* are writing as if he's absolutely useless.

I counted numerous times that he set up prime scoring chances, including a goal-post by Alfredsson, and outmuscled players behind the net. The problem is he's not producing, but the key argument so far has been that he's doing nothing outside of his statistics. I'm not sure I buy that.

Well at a certain point you need him to stop setting up chances and start setting up some Diddling goals.

15 points for our "#1 center" in 24 games is ridiculously unacceptable.

He has the fewest points of all the #1 centers in the league and less than most of the second line centers too.

We just can't succeed as a team when our top money guys aren't playing that way. It used to always be "we can't succeed unless we get the big line some help" and now it's become the total opposite. And it's not like he doesn't have help on the team between Alfredsson, Michalek, Kovalev, Fisher, Foligno and the rest of the cast who are all contributing.

This guy should be making other players better...and I'm afraid for the last 24 games at least, and possibly well into most of last year as well, he just hasn't been doing that.

I get your frustration, but that statement is pure hyperbole. Off the top of my head, Spezza is out-producing McDonald (14) and Gomez (12). Plus, if it's fair to count guys who missed a little time: E. Staal (9), Savard (11), and Horcoff (11).

I understand the sentiment, but let's not distort the facts. Is Spezza having a brutal year, statistically? Yes. Is he being out-produced by a number of #1 centres, and even by his own #2 centre? Yes. Is he among the least productive #1 centres in the NHL right now? Yes.

I guess faxes would have to be sent and so on. So, what, about 4.30 Eastern?

I'd imagine the Sens are in the same boat with Spezza as Chicago is with Campbell. I guess what's working in our favour is the fact that we can use the "He lost Heatley" excuse for another month or so, but his production is unacceptable and he looks like he's stopped trying on the ice. Also working against us is his NTC. Damn I hate NTCs...

I'm pretty bored at work, so what do you think of this trade:

To Ottawa: Nikita Filatov, CBJ 3rd rd pick 2010, some AHL calibre d-man

To CBJ: Ottawa 1st rounder & SJ 2nd rounder 2010, Brian Lee, Salary Dump (cheechoo or kelly)

Note: Ottawa 1st rounder is worst case scenario....it could be another 1st rounder that we net from say a trade for volchenkov...

Michallica wrote:I'm pretty bored at work, so what do you think of this trade:

To Ottawa: Nikita Filatov, CBJ 3rd rd pick 2010, some AHL calibre d-man

To CBJ: Ottawa 1st rounder & SJ 2nd rounder 2010, Brian Lee, Salary Dump (cheechoo or kelly)

Note: Ottawa 1st rounder is worst case scenario....it could be another 1st rounder that we net from say a trade for volchenkov...

Too much. Filatov is a risky proposition because of his commie origins. Kelly isn't a salary dump. He's the Smartest Man in Hockey. And Choochoo could be countered with a player like Modin to even that out.

What of this Spezza deal? Any more rumblings? Rutherford presser imminent?

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:

asq2 wrote:OK, I just watched the first period from last night. I get that he's not playing well enough for the money he makes, but some of us *cough* are writing as if he's absolutely useless.

I counted numerous times that he set up prime scoring chances, including a goal-post by Alfredsson, and outmuscled players behind the net. The problem is he's not producing, but the key argument so far has been that he's doing nothing outside of his statistics. I'm not sure I buy that.

Well at a certain point you need him to stop setting up chances and start setting up some Diddling goals.

15 points for our "#1 center" in 24 games is ridiculously unacceptable.

He has the fewest points of all the #1 centers in the league and less than most of the second line centers too.

We just can't succeed as a team when our top money guys aren't playing that way. It used to always be "we can't succeed unless we get the big line some help" and now it's become the total opposite. And it's not like he doesn't have help on the team between Alfredsson, Michalek, Kovalev, Fisher, Foligno and the rest of the cast who are all contributing.

This guy should be making other players better...and I'm afraid for the last 24 games at least, and possibly well into most of last year as well, he just hasn't been doing that.

I get your frustration, but that statement is pure hyperbole. Off the top of my head, Spezza is out-producing McDonald (14) and Gomez (12). Plus, if it's fair to count guys who missed a little time: E. Staal (9), Savard (11), and Horcoff (11).

I understand the sentiment, but let's not distort the facts. Is Spezza having a brutal year, statistically? Yes. Is he being out-produced by a number of #1 centres, and even by his own #2 centre? Yes. Is he among the least productive #1 centres in the NHL right now? Yes.

That's not even hyperbole in the least.

You're using Scott Gomez, who is considered by most people on this forum as the single most overpaid player in the history of the NHL, as a comparable.

Fine. If we're technically looking at first line centers, then yes. He's outproducing Scott Gomez and Andy McDonald. But only outproducing McDonald by one point it should be noted. But if we're looking at Andy McDonald in the truest sense, he's not a #1 center. He never has been and he never will be. That's just a fact. Any one who disputes that is just being silly. He's a hell of a second line center certainly with enough skill to fill in on the first line if the first line center was injured.

And then there's the other three. Marc Savard who's played 12 games this year and is actually close to a PPG. Eric Staal who's played 17 games and is on the worst team in the history of the NHL it seems, mind you that's not much of an excuse for having 9 points. And then there's Shawn Horcoff who's never ever ever ever ever been a first line center. Just because you paint your car red, doesn't mean you have a ferrari.

But on technicality, yes it was hyperbole.

Is a hyperbole some sort of dishware from the distant future?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Michallica wrote:I'm pretty bored at work, so what do you think of this trade:

To Ottawa: Nikita Filatov, CBJ 3rd rd pick 2010, some AHL calibre d-man

To CBJ: Ottawa 1st rounder & SJ 2nd rounder 2010, Brian Lee, Salary Dump (cheechoo or kelly)

Note: Ottawa 1st rounder is worst case scenario....it could be another 1st rounder that we net from say a trade for volchenkov...

Too much. Filatov is a risky proposition because of his commie origins. Kelly isn't a salary dump. He's the Smartest Man in Hockey. And Choochoo could be countered with a player like Modin to even that out.

What of this Spezza deal? Any more rumblings? Rutherford presser imminent?

Yeah but CBJ has some cap space to work with...so it doesn't have to be countered with Modin. But meh...I'm thinking from a perspective of an offer that CBJ would be smart to take that gives ottawa some cap flexibility.

For now, spezza for staal is good with me

Michallica wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Michallica wrote:I'm pretty bored at work, so what do you think of this trade:

To Ottawa: Nikita Filatov, CBJ 3rd rd pick 2010, some AHL calibre d-man

To CBJ: Ottawa 1st rounder & SJ 2nd rounder 2010, Brian Lee, Salary Dump (cheechoo or kelly)

Note: Ottawa 1st rounder is worst case scenario....it could be another 1st rounder that we net from say a trade for volchenkov...

Too much. Filatov is a risky proposition because of his commie origins. Kelly isn't a salary dump. He's the Smartest Man in Hockey. And Choochoo could be countered with a player like Modin to even that out.

Yeah but CBJ has some cap space to work with...so it doesn't have to be countered with Modin. But meh...I'm thinking from a perspective of an offer that CBJ would be smart to take that gives ottawa some cap flexibility.

For now, spezza for staal is good with me

What of this Spezza deal? Any more rumblings? Rutherford presser imminent?

They're cheap bastards, though. The CBA can't control that.

PKC wrote:I'm sorry but Staal has never had one player of the calibre of an Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing, let alone two.

He's a Stanley Cup champion and he had 28 points (9G, 19A) in that playoff run as well as another 15 points (10G, 5A) in last year's playoffs.

So it's not like he was just along for the ride.

Ray Whitney is very close to Alfredsson caliber. Also, Cory Stillman was in his hey-day there. There's no Heatley there, but the Canes had a great core of forwards that year. It's only recently that they've gone to Dung.

rooneypoo wrote:
I get your frustration, but that statement is pure hyperbole. Off the top of my head, Spezza is out-producing McDonald (14) and Gomez (12). Plus, if it's fair to count guys who missed a little time: E. Staal (9), Savard (11), and Horcoff (11).

I understand the sentiment, but let's not distort the facts. Is Spezza having a brutal year, statistically? Yes. Is he being out-produced by a number of #1 centres, and even by his own #2 centre? Yes. Is he among the least productive #1 centres in the NHL right now? Yes.

May I add he's dealing with a significant enough injury that it's affecting his game, yet he's been asked by the team to play through it. All things being equal, if there were more players on the team playing to a higher level (Cheechoo, Kelly, KOVALEV!!!) then I guarantee that Spezza would be asked to sit and get the injury fully healed and then come back.

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:I'm sorry but Staal has never had one player of the calibre of an Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing, let alone two.

He's a Stanley Cup champion and he had 28 points (9G, 19A) in that playoff run as well as another 15 points (10G, 5A) in last year's playoffs.

So it's not like he was just along for the ride.

Ray Whitney is very close to Alfredsson caliber. Also, Cory Stillman was in his hey-day there. There's no Heatley there, but the Canes had a great core of forwards that year. It's only recently that they've gone to Dung.

No wonder we're all waiting for this Staal/Spezza trade to be announced. Good insight.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:I'm sorry but Staal has never had one player of the calibre of an Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing, let alone two.

He's a Stanley Cup champion and he had 28 points (9G, 19A) in that playoff run as well as another 15 points (10G, 5A) in last year's playoffs.

So it's not like he was just along for the ride.

Ray Whitney is very close to Alfredsson caliber. Also, Cory Stillman was in his hey-day there. There's no Heatley there, but the Canes had a great core of forwards that year. It's only recently that they've gone to Dung.

No wonder we're all waiting for this Staal/Spezza trade to be announced. Good insight.

Do you actually want Eric Staal and his massively overpaid contract here? Because if you think Spezza's struggling, you ain't seen nothin' yet. E.Staal can struggle like there's NO tomorrow. Just ask all the people who badly want him out of Carolina how much they love him.

SpezDispenser wrote:Do you actually want Eric Staal and his massively overpaid contract here? Because if you think Spezza's struggling, you ain't seen nothin' yet. E.Staal can struggle like there's NO tomorrow. Just ask all the people who badly want him out of Carolina how much they love him.

I would like to ask our esteemed GMHockey members how much they love him. Surely, ShabbsnetConnected will have a chart to answer all our questions.

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:I'm sorry but Staal has never had one player of the calibre of an Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing, let alone two.

He's a Stanley Cup champion and he had 28 points (9G, 19A) in that playoff run as well as another 15 points (10G, 5A) in last year's playoffs.

So it's not like he was just along for the ride.

Ray Whitney is very close to Alfredsson caliber. Also, Cory Stillman was in his hey-day there. There's no Heatley there, but the Canes had a great core of forwards that year. It's only recently that they've gone to Dung.

No wonder we're all waiting for this Staal/Spezza trade to be announced. Good insight.

Do you actually want Eric Staal and his massively overpaid contract here? Because if you think Spezza's struggling, you ain't seen nothin' yet. E.Staal can struggle like there's NO tomorrow. Just ask all the people who badly want him out of Carolina how much they love him.

He's at least made it to the 40 goal, 100 point plateau which is where we keep saying Spezza will get to. And it's not going to be this year for Jason, and those years on the calender keep rolling over. So when's it gonna be?