Kessel to The Leafs

Working with a Leafs fan this morning who totally hates this deal. Giving up too much on a gamble.

Snuh wrote:Working with a Leafs fan this morning who totally hates this deal. Giving up too much on a gamble.

They should have held onto the 2010 1st rounder at the very least.

shabbs wrote:

Snuh wrote:Working with a Leafs fan this morning who totally hates this deal. Giving up too much on a gamble.

They should have held onto the 2010 1st rounder at the very least.

For a team that should be re-building, through the draft rather than through the FA market, it's an odd move. They don't really have the assets to get those picks back via a trade, either.

Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

Let's look at it this way. Burke gave up a 2010 and 2011 first, as well as a 2010 2nd. If he'd signed Kessel to an offer sheet for the amount he signed him for, he would have had to give up those picks anyway AND a 3rd in 2010 on top of that. Yes, it's a steep steep price, but he subtracted nothing from the roster. Still, for a "rebuilding team" it makes little sense to trade away those draft picks, even for a young guy like Kessel who is not without question marks, for his play, and possibly his health.

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

It's a better haul, for sure, especially considering that both the Sens and the Bruins were in similarly (bad) cap circumstances. BOS had to take back zero dollars here, which is just what they needed.

Michalek is worth a 1st rounder+ for sure. We got a 2nd, so that just about equals out (TOR's pick will be higher than SJS's). But does Michalek + Cheechoo get 2 1st rounders out of anyone in the league? Probably not. But while Michalek probably won't ever score as many goals as Kessel, he will be the better overall player, for sure.

In the end, it's apples and oranges with Heatley and Kessel, tho'. The publicity of Heatley's trade request, the character issues this 2nd trade request raised, the impossible position BM was put in, etc. -- all these things limited the kind of return we could get. With Kessel, BOS didn't have to trade him (they had until December to sign him), plain and simple. He was a RFA seeking more money, not a signed player who had become unhappy with his situation, wanted out, and threatened to destroy the team chemistry before the season started. And so BOS was in position to demand more, and to refuse salary coming back. Heatley took that luxury away from us.

I have very little doubt that if Heatley's trade request hadn't become the public fiasco it was, the return would have resembled something more like the return Pronger garnered for ANA.

Would Burke not of had to give up less picks if he signed him to that contract as on offer sheet?

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

It depends. If JUST ONE of those 1sts is not a top 10 pick, mihcalek + cheech >>>>>> 2 1st rounders.

marakh wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

It depends. If JUST ONE of those 1sts is not a top 10 pick, mihcalek + cheech >>>>>> 2 1st rounders.

Although if you feel like most of the rest of the league that Cheechoo was a salary dump -- a necessary condition for taking on $7.5M (although half-price for the first year) then it's a bit of a different deal.

Bramlet07 wrote:Would Burke not of had to give up less picks if he signed him to that contract as on offer sheet?

With last year's compensation, it would have been two 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd. But that $5.4M is very close to the upper-threshold on the lower range. Last year, up to $5.231M would have only required a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It is entirely possible that this year that $5.231M threshold could have gone up 5%, which would take it over $5.4M. And even if it didn't, couldn't he convince the agent to take $26.15M instead of 27?

Weird. The Bruins had no way to match anything around $5M, so I don't understand how they couldn't get it done for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

I think a 24 year old Michalek is worth a 1st and a 2nd. He's farmed, he's got experience, he's had success and he's very, very young on a good contract.

The other 1st rounder isn't worth Cheechoo obviously, so it's a little better for Boston.

It's close though IMO.

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

I dunno... is Kessel that much better the Michalek himself? About 3 years age difference, Michalek is faster, stronger, and produces at the same level, more complete. I would say Kessel for Michalek straight up would have been 100% even.

Throw in Cheechoo and a 2nd... I say its about the same, buuuuut that's just me.

EDIT: Actually, no, Kessel's return was better... I still like what we got for Heatley though.

It's impossible to say. What if thoe 2 firsts are busts? it would mean KEssel for free

hemlock wrote:Let's look at it this way. Burke gave up a 2010 and 2011 first, as well as a 2010 2nd. If he'd signed Kessel to an offer sheet for the amount he signed him for, he would have had to give up those picks anyway AND a 3rd in 2010 on top of that. Yes, it's a steep steep price, but he subtracted nothing from the roster. Still, for a "rebuilding team" it makes little sense to trade away those draft picks, even for a young guy like Kessel who is not without question marks, for his play, and possibly his health.

Burke never declared the Leaf's were rebuilding. He said he was going ot mould the team in a different way.

He shored up the defence BIG time, he acquired three free agents (Bozak, Gustafsson, and Hansen.

Now he has traded away 3 really good picks for Kessel, who is young, has tremendous upside, and did not cost a roster player. Those picks likely would have yielded 3 good prospects, but no guarantees.

If he continues in the trend of signing quality US collegiate players like Stalberg, Bozak and Hansen, and Euros like Gustavsson, does he really need those picks.....

Burke is making the splash he promised. I hope it pans out for him

marakh wrote:It's impossible to say. What if thoe 2 firsts are busts? it would mean KEssel for free

In Toronto those 1st would be... Boston, probably not.

N4L wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:Is it just me or does two 1sts and a 2nd seem like more than Cheechoo, Michalek, and a 2nd?

I dunno... is Kessel that much better the Michalek himself? About 3 years age difference, Michalek is faster, stronger, and produces at the same level, more complete. I would say Kessel for Michalek straight up would have been 100% even.

Throw in Cheechoo and a 2nd... I say its about the same, buuuuut that's just me.

EDIT: Actually, no, Kessel's return was better... I still like what we got for Heatley though.

Of course he's more complete. Kessel's 21.

On the other hand, MM's never broken the 30 goal mark while Kessel was on pace for a 40+ goal season last year.

We'll see if he does that in Toronto, haha. 1st place team vs a last place team. If he hits 30 in Toronto my view on him will somewhat change.

There have been questions about Kessel's overall character from day 1, that's why he went from 1 to 5 in the draft. Still is clearly otherwise Boston would have done everything they could to sign him. I think Burke dropped the ball in a big way here.

N4L wrote:We'll see if he does that in Toronto, haha. 1st place team vs a last place team. If he hits 30 in Toronto my view on him will somewhat change.

There have been questions about Kessel's overall character from day 1, that's why he went from 1 to 5 in the draft. Still is clearly otherwise Boston would have done everything they could to sign him. I think Burke dropped the ball in a big way here.

We bet already on the Leafs coming in higher than 13th, right? I like that bet a lot right now.