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GM Hockey » Breaking Rumours!! » Member's Story breakers! » Another Heatley rumor to throw on the pile...

Another Heatley rumor to throw on the pile...

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wprager
Flo The Action
PTFlea
TheAvatar
Hockeyhero22000
asq2
pgood
beedub
Jordo
SensFan71
Vandelay
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Hockeyhero22000


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100% with you there cas trading away kubina and loading with lumbering D men with only kaberle to move the puck looks like he is downgrading the d not preparing for the future

asq2


All-Star
All-Star

cas wrote:Yeah I can see where you're coming from, but its the Kyle Turris's, the Oscar Moller's, the Cody Hodgson's (etc.) who are elite prospects. The fact that Kadri was a worthy first round pick, but a questionable top-10 pick doesn't permit him to join that elite category, Imo.

To be clear, I don't consider Duchene an elite prospect either...Having a (likely) 60-70 point center is great and I think he was the right pick in that slot, but I really have a hard time picturing him toping 80 points in his career; same goes for Kadri.

When it comes down to it, its all just perception. I'm not sure foresight or prescience is any more clear than any of yours, but its my view nonetheless. And I just don't see Kadri putting up big numbers in the NHL. I think it was a terrible pick. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Burke's moves recently and I'm convinced he's entrenched in the process of destroying his already underserved reputation as a great GM.

Disagree on Duchene, I think he's going to be a marvellous player. I agree that Burke's been doing some pretty bizarre trades though. Hated (loved) both the Kubina and Stralman trades.

I don't see Kadri as a terrible pick, but I don't see him winning the Art Ross either. I see his upside as a bigger, somewhat less productive Derek Roy. Not a guy you can build around up front (which is what the Leafs need pretty badly, I guess) but a good supportive player.

So, I guess what I've been saying has been pretty contradictory. I don't think he'll be an elite player, but I think he's a good prospect. That made sense in my mind, but less so now that I've written it out.

Guest


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Hockeyhero22000 wrote:100% with you there cas trading away kubina and loading with lumbering D men with only kaberle to move the puck looks like he is downgrading the d not preparing for the future

I actually liked the Kubina trade at first, but the more I read about it and the more I thought about it, the more I scratched my head scratch Still not quite sure what Burke is thinking. He's making some pretty big gambles - not the least of which is passing on Kessel.

Hockeyhero22000

Hockeyhero22000
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Veteran

it is not that i think the kubina trade is bad per se but more alone the lines that now they have only karberle to move the puck now

Guest


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asq2 wrote:
cas wrote:Yeah I can see where you're coming from, but its the Kyle Turris's, the Oscar Moller's, the Cody Hodgson's (etc.) who are elite prospects. The fact that Kadri was a worthy first round pick, but a questionable top-10 pick doesn't permit him to join that elite category, Imo.

To be clear, I don't consider Duchene an elite prospect either...Having a (likely) 60-70 point center is great and I think he was the right pick in that slot, but I really have a hard time picturing him toping 80 points in his career; same goes for Kadri.

When it comes down to it, its all just perception. I'm not sure foresight or prescience is any more clear than any of yours, but its my view nonetheless. And I just don't see Kadri putting up big numbers in the NHL. I think it was a terrible pick. Speaking of which, I've been looking at Burke's moves recently and I'm convinced he's entrenched in the process of destroying his already underserved reputation as a great GM.

Disagree on Duchene, I think he's going to be a marvellous player. I agree that Burke's been doing some pretty bizarre trades though. Hated (loved) both the Kubina and Stralman trades.

I don't see Kadri as a terrible pick, but I don't see him winning the Art Ross either. I see his upside as a bigger, somewhat less productive Derek Roy. Not a guy you can build around up front (which is what the Leafs need pretty badly, I guess) but a good supportive player.

So, I guess what I've been saying has been pretty contradictory. I don't think he'll be an elite player, but I think he's a good prospect. That made sense in my mind, but less so now that I've written it out.

That makes sense. Its always hard to clarify a comment that has specific intentions but is subject to so many different interpretations.

I would agree with the idea that he is a fine prospect, but I don't foresee him being a 1st line player on a team with even remote offensive depth at the top-6 position. I didn't choose my Cheechoo reference willy-nilly...I really wouldn't be at all surprised to see him rise and fall in a similar way.

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Hockeyhero22000 wrote:it is not that i think the kubina trade is bad per se but more alone the lines that now they have only karberle to move the puck now

Well Beauchemin has some pretty good vision and their bottom pairing is sure to have a decent puck mover, so I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. Also, we've seen here in Ottawa that any decent system can compensate for the lack of great puck moving. I mean, Phillips never had a problem getting the puck out of the zone until Hartsburg came to town. I'm still convinced the lack of a puck mover was WAY overblown by the fans and media. Its not like these shutdown guys can't handle a puck...

Hockeyhero22000

Hockeyhero22000
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yea it probably has been overblown but i mean you cant disregard the fact if you have one of these more offensive minded defense that it helps a lot better to jump start an offense than the shutdown guys yea they can move the puck but not as good i see the ability to get that long pass out of the zone as a huge important factor

asq2

asq2
All-Star
All-Star

cas wrote:
Hockeyhero22000 wrote:it is not that i think the kubina trade is bad per se but more alone the lines that now they have only karberle to move the puck now

Well Beauchemin has some pretty good vision and their bottom pairing is sure to have a decent puck mover, so I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. Also, we've seen here in Ottawa that any decent system can compensate for the lack of great puck moving. I mean, Phillips never had a problem getting the puck out of the zone until Hartsburg came to town. I'm still convinced the lack of a puck mover was WAY overblown by the fans and media. Its not like these shutdown guys can't handle a puck...

The defence as it stands is:

Kaberle - Komisarek (pretty nice puck-moving-wise)
Schenn - Beauchemin (not terrific, but capable)
Finger - Van Ryn/White (fine)
*Exelby (yikes)

So, it isn't a major problem. It's only a major problem if Kaberle gets dealt: frankly, though, if it could nab them a Phil Kessel, they should have done it/kept Kubina. I'd definitely take Kubina and Kessel over Kaberle and Exelby.

Tuk Tuk

Tuk Tuk
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Toronto's not in a terrible position, but the fan in me wants to believe they're Diddle Smile

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I agree asq, that would have been a much better route. My understanding, however, was that Boston wanted Kaberle + a 1st for Kessel. Seeing how Toronto is unlikely to avoid the lottery, I'm guessing that 1st was a major sticking point.

Quickly before I go to bed - How about this gem from the geniuses on Chirp's comments page:

"Trade Heatley, Picard and Winchester to SJ for Cheechoo,Vlasic, prospect and a pick (or 2nd prospect) and then flip Cheechoo and Kelly to Edmonton for Penner."

Facepalm

Tuk Tuk

Tuk Tuk
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Veteran

Can you imagine a Kabrele-Chara pairing though?

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

I still think that Kaberle has played his best games a year or two ago. Komisarek is not a great puck mover. He's big (takes a long time to get around him) and likes to hit. I'm not sure where you (asq2) get the idea that Kabs-Komi are a good pairing, puck-moving wise.

It'll be interesting -- and probably enlightening -- to see how it actually develops, but I've got this nasty feeling that Toronto's D is not going to be all that effective when it comes to helping out the offense. Not that ours is much to brag about either.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

PTFlea

PTFlea
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Hockeyhero22000 wrote:100% with you there cas trading away kubina and loading with lumbering D men with only kaberle to move the puck looks like he is downgrading the d not preparing for the future

One of the worst trades of this young year IMO. Exelby was heavily scouted by a ton of teams and deemed too slow for this new NHL. Kubina is a workhorse who plays heavy minutes, has a great show and can move the puck. The difference in salary is 3.3 million - and in this particular instance, you get what you pay for.

I loved that traded from an Ottawa standpoint, hate it from a Toronto standpoint. Almost as much as I 'loved' the signing of Colton freaking Orr.

PTFlea

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wprager wrote:I still think that Kaberle has played his best games a year or two ago. Komisarek is not a great puck mover. He's big (takes a long time to get around him) and likes to hit. I'm not sure where you (asq2) get the idea that Kabs-Komi are a good pairing, puck-moving wise.

It'll be interesting -- and probably enlightening -- to see how it actually develops, but I've got this nasty feeling that Toronto's D is not going to be all that effective when it comes to helping out the offense. Not that ours is much to brag about either.

A lot of people felt that Kaberle was horrendously exposed in Toronto recently. With Komisarek there to flank him, teams won't be taking the same liberties with him and he'll probably have that extra steamboat to make a pass - and to the best passers in the game, that extra milli-second means a lot.

Komisarek is the anti puck mover. He flat out can't do it, but he'll be there to insulate Kaberle.

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Whenever I think of Komi all I see is the scared little boy that wanted nothing to do with Chara. I really can't take him seriously as "toughness" anymore.

wprager

wprager
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Administrator

I think it's a little more than that. McCabe wasn't exactly a heavy hitter either (remember what Chara did to him?) -- I still think that that hit by Janssen did some long-term damage; whether it is physical or mental, he hasn't been the same since. Yes, Komi will insulate him somewhat (as Kuba, with his size and long reach could do here -- not by kitting incoming forwards, which is not legal without the puck anyway, but by getting in the way and making them take the lng way around) but I don't expect him to get back to how he played 2 years ago.

Oh, and that split millisecond may help with the pass, but it's not going to help much when that forwards is "finishing his check" a couple of seconds later.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer

Janssen is a nut bar...

And no one jumped Janssen for that hit...

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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cas wrote:Whenever I think of Komi all I see is the scared little boy that wanted nothing to do with Chara. I really can't take him seriously as "toughness" anymore.

All I can think of is Lucic destroying him.

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