A rumour is still a rumour - even if it is Eklund

SeawaySensFan wrote:Lest we forget, Heatley plays for 4 million bucks next year. I wouldn't be surprised if Murray tries to squeeze more out of the Greasers on that basis.

Hmmm...

Gilbert - 4 million, 5 more years, 45 points last season , 26 years old- 60 point ceiling

Cogliano - 1.1 million, RFA next year, 18 goals, 38 points, 22 years old, 60 point ceiling

Gagner - 1.6, RFA next year, 19 years old, 41 points, 80 point ceiling

Fat Penner - 4.2 million, 3 more years, 17 goals last year, 30 goal ceiling

Eberle and MPS as the prospects, 1st rounder from next year as another valuable piece

Assuming we have to take Fat Penner as a salary dump and Gagner won't be traded, who's more important to our franchise? Cogliano or Gilbert or one of the prospects?

jamvan wrote:I think the deal is still the same players, just Edmonton taking back some salary to get us cap friendly in Smith (if he can play) and/or Schubert.

I would assume so, yeah. But at least this gives Murray some time to really think about it one last time.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Whatever. I posted a straightforward trade that saves both teams cap space. In Ottawa's case enough to sign Elliott.

I guess it's only possible if you say it is. :^^^^:

Dude, you're advocating that OTT trading for Marleau rather than Michalek is somehow easier, simpler for everyone involved. All I've done is point out that that's not the case. And your retort is this ad hominem crap? Whatever.

What did you call me?

An ad hominem attack is one that targets the writer's person, and not the argument he/she is making. It substitutes personal invective for meaningful engagement with the opponent's argument. It is an evasive tactic that forgoes logic, usually employed by people who don't know how to dispute another person's argument, but want to disagree anyway.

SpezDispenser wrote:Eberle and MPS as the prospects, 1st rounder from next year as another valuable piece

Assuming we have to take Fat Penner as a salary dump and Gagner won't be traded, who's more important to our franchise? Cogliano or Gilbert or one of the prospects?

I'd "settle" for MPS alone along with that 1st rounder. Besides, I think Fat Penner is a better second-liner than a number of the players in our current lineup masquerading as second-liners.

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Whatever. I posted a straightforward trade that saves both teams cap space. In Ottawa's case enough to sign Elliott.

I guess it's only possible if you say it is. :^^^^:

Dude, you're advocating that OTT trading for Marleau rather than Michalek is somehow easier, simpler for everyone involved. All I've done is point out that that's not the case. And your retort is this ad hominem crap? Whatever.

What did you call me?

An ad hominem attack is one that targets the writer's person, and not the argument he/she is making. It substitutes personal invective for meaningful engagement with the opponent's argument. It is an evasive tactic that forgoes logic, usually employed by people who don't know how to dispute another person's argument, but want to disagree anyway.

:drooling:

Agreed. I'm ill-equipped to dispute your airtight arguments. I'm just typing words.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Agreed. I'm ill-equipped to dispute your airtight arguments. I'm just typing words.

I'm happy to leave it at that. :^^^^:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Agreed. I'm ill-equipped to dispute your airtight arguments. I'm just typing words.

I'm happy to leave it at that. :^^^^:

If I knew what "likewise" meant, I would say "likewise".

SeawaySensFan wrote:
I'd "settle" for MPS alone along with that 1st rounder. Besides, I think Fat Penner is a better second-liner than a number of the players in our current lineup masquerading as second-liners.

Who's masquerading as a top six in our lineup? Maybe Fisher, but I think he's better than FP.

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
I'd "settle" for MPS alone along with that 1st rounder. Besides, I think Fat Penner is a better second-liner than a number of the players in our current lineup masquerading as second-liners.

Who's masquerading as a top six in our lineup? Maybe Fisher, but I think he's better than FP.

Just go through the revolving door of "second-liners" we've been through and I'm sure you'll come up with some names.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
I'd "settle" for MPS alone along with that 1st rounder. Besides, I think Fat Penner is a better second-liner than a number of the players in our current lineup masquerading as second-liners.

Who's masquerading as a top six in our lineup? Maybe Fisher, but I think he's better than FP.

Just go through the revolving door of "second-liners" we've been through and I'm sure you'll come up with some names.

Brandon Bochenski

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Agreed. I'm ill-equipped to dispute your airtight arguments. I'm just typing words.

I'm happy to leave it at that. :^^^^:

If I knew what "likewise" meant, I would say "likewise".

Dude, I don't know what your problem is. My point has never been that you're stupid. I would never say that, and furthermore I know it to be false.

Rather, I'm saying that, in this instance, your argument about Marleau over Michalek is not well thought out, and that instead of answering my points when I started pointing out logical problems with your position, you just retreated to a sarcastic) position that heavily implied "you're arrogant, conceited, inattentive to others' positions."

Stop posing like a victim or the object of my patronizing. If you want to answer the points I've raised, do so. Nobody's stopping you.

SensFan71 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
I'd "settle" for MPS alone along with that 1st rounder. Besides, I think Fat Penner is a better second-liner than a number of the players in our current lineup masquerading as second-liners.

Who's masquerading as a top six in our lineup? Maybe Fisher, but I think he's better than FP.

Just go through the revolving door of "second-liners" we've been through and I'm sure you'll come up with some names.

Brandon Bochenski

I was so excited when that guy scored 10 goals in pre-season !!! I thought we had found a gem.

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Agreed. I'm ill-equipped to dispute your airtight arguments. I'm just typing words.

I'm happy to leave it at that. :^^^^:

If I knew what "likewise" meant, I would say "likewise".

Dude, I don't know what your problem is. My point has never been that you're stupid. I would never say that, and furthermore I know it to be false.

Rather, I'm saying that, in this instance, your argument about Marleau over Michalek is not well thought out, and that instead of answering my points when I started pointing out logical problems with your position, you just retreated to a sarcastic) position that heavily implied "you're arrogant, conceited, inattentive to others' positions."

Stop posing like a victim or the object of my patronizing. If you want to answer the points I've raised, do so. Nobody's stopping you.

I did already. I explained that both teams would get some cap relief out of it and that we stood to get better picks or prospects because of that. That should cover it. I never implied that you were conceited either.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

I did already. I explained that both teams would get some cap relief out of it and that we stood to get better picks or prospects because of that. That should cover it. I never implied that you were conceited either.

Thank you for the somewhat straight answer. I'll take it for granted that, in your final comment, you just neglected to write in the other two bad things you implied about me.

Yes, you said this, and then I said, "how do 2 teams, both over the cap, trade with each other and each gain cap space?" That's hurdle #1 to a deal involving SJS, in my mind.

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

I did already. I explained that both teams would get some cap relief out of it and that we stood to get better picks or prospects because of that. That should cover it. I never implied that you were conceited either.

Thank you for the somewhat straight answer. I'll take it for granted that, in your final comment, you just neglected to write in the other two bad things you implied about me.

Yes, you said this, and then I said, "how do 2 teams, both over the cap, trade with each other and each gain cap space?" That's hurdle #1 to a deal involving SJS, in my mind.

Obviously. I was just kidding, of course. I do that occasionally. If I were that mean, I would make fun of that crooked mustache of yours. In fact, I didn't mean to imply anything at all.

Anyhow, try trading Heatley and Lee for Marleau and Lukowich assuming Ottawa buys out Lukowich and Lee plays in Worcester.

am waiting for response ... this is getting quite entertaining

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Obviously. I was just kidding, of course. I do that occasionally. If I were that mean, I would make fun of that crooked mustache of yours. In fact, I didn't mean to imply anything at all.

Anyhow, try trading Heatley and Lee for Marleau and Lukowich assuming Ottawa buys out Lukowich and Lee plays in Worcester.

My mustache rules, pumpkinhead.

In that deal, OTT takes on $6.3 mil (Marleau) + $522K (Lukowich's buyout), or just a tad under $7 mil ($6.822 mil). Total cap savings on the deal: $678K ($7.5 - 6.822). Currently, we have $286K in cap space; with this deal, we'd have $964K in cap space. That means that, after we sign Elliott, we need to free up about another $2 mil for injuries and call ups. If Smith is moved, then that number moves closer to $3.3 mil, as we'd have to make room for Lee or Karlsson.

Similarly, in that deal, SJS takes on Heatley ($7.5 mil). Total cap savings: $7.866 (Marleau's $6.3 + Lukowich's $1.566) - $7.5 mil = $366K. Their current cap space is $217K; with this deal, they'd have $583K in cap space -- with only 9 forwards, 6 D, and one goalie. To fill out the rest of the line up, SJ would need to move, at minimum, one $4 mil contract -- that's for 3 cheap forwards from the farm (say, $2 mil total), plus one cheap backup (say, $1 mil), plus the requisite cap space ($1.5 mil minimum).

Ideally, any deal OTT makes for Heatley will create a minimum of $2.5 mil in cap space. By the same token, if SJ wants to make any deal for Heatley, they will have to two TWO significant contracts -- and, as far as I can tell, Marleau will have to be one of them, while Michalek, Cheechoo, or Ehrhoff will have to be the other.

Indeed. Which essentially leaves San Jose with Michalek or Ehrhoff to move which would be far easier than dealing Marleau.

And it leaves Ottawa to move someone else, that they would have had to move anyway because Cheechoo wouldn't be going anywhere.

I don't think the deal is "ideal" for either team no matter who is involved.