What's Next for The Maple Leafs?

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out why Burke would even contemplate an offer sheet for Kessel. First, they are finally in a position where the fans would accept a true rebuild, which is what they ought to do. Giving away a small army of picks for a guy who is very one dimensional seems crazy. Furthermore, Kessel got 36 goals, but he had Savard feeding him the puck, one of the premier playmakers in the league, and Toronto has nothing remotely similar. This just reeks of a bad move all around.

Burke isn't a good GM The talk about being known for "building winners" is always pluralised for no apparent reason. He's been co-architect of one team that won one Cup in extremely controversial fashion. No team since the lockout has come anywhere near getting the officiating help/breaks the Ducks did.

Regardless, Pronger and Niedermayer fell into Burke's lap and he had the benefit of Murray bringing in McDonald, Penner, Kunitz, Getzlaf, and Perry, while Selanne came back home to roost

What exactly did Burke do?

You're just being mean 'cause Brian always leaves his tie half undone.

hemlock wrote:Agreed. He's terribly overrated, and has left messes behind in both Anaheim and Vancouver. My guess is that he'll finally leave the Leafs at some point, cupless and in worse shape then they are now.

If he pulls off this offer sheet business, that would be a good bet to make.

cas wrote:

asq2 wrote:

davetherave wrote:Hey, what's Nazem Kadri's upside?

Probably at best he's a Derek Roy-esque 1a/1b centreman. Not a forward you can build an offence around, but definitely a good complementary scorer (well, passer).

That's basically what their offence consists of now, although his upside is better than any offenceman on the current roster is now (much as I like Hagman).

He, Kulemin and Bozak all have the potential to be pretty productive guys going forward, but they still lack that main guy on offence. That's why IMO a Kessel offer-sheet makes sense. I don't think they're going to be bad enough to get that main guy via the draft.

good point and thats a better comparison than mine...Same idea still, but he has more of that D.Roy flare.

Is Kessel really that main guy, though?

Well, he has more potential to be than anyone they currently have. Probably significantly more potential.

Kessel would be a good fit with Ron Wilson...but whether or not this deal happens is PURE speculation.

Burke may also be looking at Brandon Dubinsky.

Or he may be stockpiling picks.

davetherave wrote:

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out why Burke would even contemplate an offer sheet for Kessel. First, they are finally in a position where the fans would accept a true rebuild, which is what they ought to do. Giving away a small army of picks for a guy who is very one dimensional seems crazy. Furthermore, Kessel got 36 goals, but he had Savard feeding him the puck, one of the premier playmakers in the league, and Toronto has nothing remotely similar. This just reeks of a bad move all around.

Burke isn't a good GM The talk about being known for "building winners" is always pluralised for no apparent reason. He's been co-architect of one team that won one Cup in extremely controversial fashion. No team since the lockout has come anywhere near getting the officiating help/breaks the Ducks did.

Regardless, Pronger and Niedermayer fell into Burke's lap and he had the benefit of Murray bringing in McDonald, Penner, Kunitz, Getzlaf, and Perry, while Selanne came back home to roost

What exactly did Burke do?

You're just being mean 'cause Brian always leaves his tie half undone.

What a fantastic metaphor that is for Burke! Never quite tying up lose ends... Always putting too much emphasis on appearance, rather than substance...

I thought Dubinsky originally, but why reacquire the 2nd? The 2nd would only be needed for a massive contract offer...well more than Dubinksy's worth right now. Kessel also just doesn't seem like Burke type player either.

davetherave wrote:Kessel would be a good fit with Ron Wilson...but whether or not this deal happens is PURE speculation.

Burke may also be looking at Brandon Dubinsky.

Or he may be stockpiling picks.

I see what you did there

cas wrote:

davetherave wrote:Kessel would be a good fit with Ron Wilson...but whether or not this deal happens is PURE speculation.

Burke may also be looking at Brandon Dubinsky.

Or he may be stockpiling picks.

I see what you did there

All these players to keep track of...sheesh

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:Agreed. He's terribly overrated, and has left messes behind in both Anaheim and Vancouver. My guess is that he'll finally leave the Leafs at some point, cupless and in worse shape then they are now.

If he pulls off this offer sheet business, that would be a good bet to make.

I don't know. I see this roster picking around 9th or 10th right now. Add Kessel and it's more like 11th or 12th.

As I've said before, the Leafs have very nice depth, it's the core guy up front they're missing. Offensively, they don't really need to draft any more supporting forwards IMO: right now they have Kadri, Kulemin, Bozak, Stempniak, Grabovski, Stefanovich, Hayes, Stalberg, Stajan, and DiDomenico in that regard, who are all pretty young.

Defensively, I still don't like them losing Stralman, but obviously that's where their franchise guy is right now and it's a pretty solid part of their roster at the moment. And, of course, they just signed Gustavsson for goal.

So, if you're giving up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, it's probably worth it. 4 1sts is out of the question, and 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd is more difficult to accept, but I think it would make their roster solid enough that you wouldn't be drafting from a spot where you're (somewhat) likely to get elite talent.

hemlock wrote:I thought Dubinsky originally, but why reacquire the 2nd? The 2nd would only be needed for a massive contract offer...well more than Dubinksy's worth right now. Kessel also just doesn't seem like Burke type player either.

Not necessarily true...

The 2011 draft is widely speculated to be one of the weakest drafts in the past 20 years - like 1996 weak....

Burke traded 2 picks in 2011 for one pick in 2010...

Its entirely likely that he did it as a pressure tactic or maybe even to make a real offer, but thats all speculation at this point

Seeing as very few of you--if any--were around when the Leafs won their last Stanley Cup, I will take it upon myself to inform you that George 'Punch' Imlach was one of the meanest, nastiest hockey executives ever to walk the earth.

The Leafs won several Cups under his thoroughly foul-mouthed and mean-spirited tutelage.

The Maple Leafs may be a ways from Imlach's teams, but Burke and Wilson will be as nasty as they gotta be to make Toronto a factor again.

asq2 wrote:

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:Agreed. He's terribly overrated, and has left messes behind in both Anaheim and Vancouver. My guess is that he'll finally leave the Leafs at some point, cupless and in worse shape then they are now.

If he pulls off this offer sheet business, that would be a good bet to make.

I don't know. I see this roster picking around 9th or 10th right now. Add Kessel and it's more like 11th or 12th.

As I've said before, the Leafs have very nice depth, it's the core guy up front they're missing. Offensively, they don't really need to draft any more supporting forwards IMO: right now they have Kadri, Kulemin, Bozak, Stempniak, Grabovski, Stefanovich, Hayes, Stalberg, Stajan, and DiDomenico in that regard, who are all pretty young.

Defensively, I still don't like them losing Stralman, but obviously that's where their franchise guy is right now and it's a pretty solid part of their roster at the moment. And, of course, they just signed Gustavsson for goal.

So, if you're giving up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, it's probably worth it. 4 1sts is out of the question, and 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd is more difficult to accept, but I think it would make their roster solid enough that you wouldn't be drafting from a spot where you're (somewhat) likely to get elite talent.

True enough. It may make greater sense if they envision Kadri being a full time Leaf and possibly being lined up with Kessel and Hagman

What can you tell me about Hayes and Stefanovich? Are they llikely NHLers?

@ASQ> If I remember correctly from the WJC, Chris DiDomenico is one ornery and talented guy as well.

davetherave wrote:@ASQ> If I remember correctly from the WJC, Chris DiDomenico is one ornery and talented guy as well.

He's a very good 2 way forward, but was injured in the last part of the season last year and was very missed during the memorial cup run. But he's more of a project, needs to get bigger. Likely 2-3 years away.

The Leafs seem to be going the opposite route from the Sens and picking players who were originally highly touted and then fell, versus Ottawa who took players who rose out of nowhere (consensus-wise, probably not in the Sens' brass' minds, though) a la Karlsson, Wiercioch, Z. Smith.

I recall that when I first discussed the 2008 draft, Stefanovich was one of the top names. Hayes was a middle-first rounder as I recall. Incidentally, the Oilers this year took 3 guys (MSP, Rajala, Roy) who when I first started looking at the 2009 draft were discussed as some of the top names. I don't even remember where Roy went, so it shows you how much some of these guys can fall (Kuchin, another guy named as a top prospect, wasn't even drafted).

Both of them have the potential probably to be second liners, although it's more likely they end up as 2nd/3rd line guys. Be that as it may, I don't think they're likely to land prospects in the second or third round who will be considered substantially more likely to turn into top-6 forwards, which is why those picks are IMO expendable in the context of a guy like Kessel.

davetherave wrote:@ASQ> If I remember correctly from the WJC, Chris DiDomenico is one ornery and talented guy as well.

Yeah, he played with Tavares some, although a lot of that had to do with the fact that he was 19 and more physically developed than a lot of the other guys.

He's likely to be a much better junior player than NHL player (as most are), but again, it's not likely you're going to find players in the 2nd or 3rd who could be considered to have a substantially better chance of being a top-6 forward - they just get taken earlier, unless they're complete psychopaths.

marakh wrote:

davetherave wrote:@ASQ> If I remember correctly from the WJC, Chris DiDomenico is one ornery and talented guy as well.

He's a very good 2 way forward, but was injured in the last part of the season last year and was very missed during the memorial cup run. But he's more of a project, needs to get bigger. Likely 2-3 years away.

@Marakh>Scott Gomez type?

davetherave wrote:

marakh wrote:

davetherave wrote:@ASQ> If I remember correctly from the WJC, Chris DiDomenico is one ornery and talented guy as well.

He's a very good 2 way forward, but was injured in the last part of the season last year and was very missed during the memorial cup run. But he's more of a project, needs to get bigger. Likely 2-3 years away.

@Marakh>Scott Gomez type?

Unlikely. Both because his production probably won't be anywhere near Scotty's, and because his skating isn't nearly as good as Gomez's is either.

@ASQ> how do you see Bozak and Hanson as assets for the Leafs?