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GM Hockey » Breaking Rumours!! » Member's Story breakers! » Mezaros to TB for Kuba, Picard and a 1st

Mezaros to TB for Kuba, Picard and a 1st

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Aetherial
A-Train
Jordo
Number Twenty Nine
rooneypoo
PTFlea
Hayden
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rooneypoo


All-Star
All-Star

Hayden wrote:Pretty sure we're going to have the most competitve training camp for the 5th and 6th spot on D. I'd be upset if shubby doesn't get a shot at D for the full season, Nycholat has to be traded now (if picard is going to make it) and Bell has a shot (although a long one - especially now).

It's a very, very interesting situation, I admit. Locks, presumably, are Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith, Kuba, and Lee. That leaves Schubert, Picard, Nycholat, and Bell fighting for one spot.

Bell was always a long-shot at best, I think, and now he's totally out of the picture.

If it's puck mobility we want -- and it seems like we do -- it will come down to Nycholat and Picard. Nycholat has a leg up in terms of his 1-way deal, but as you suggest he may just be traded now. I also would find it strange that Murray would demand Picard only to send him down this year. That would put Picard in.

All this puts Schubert in a strange spot. He wants to play D, but now he might not get a shot. To me, that suggests that Schubert will probably have to play wing again -- which crowds our forward ranks again -- and play D on the PK, or -- and I don't like this idea -- we trade him to get offensive help.

Aetherial


Rookie
Rookie

Not a bad trade... Some unknowns though. Kuba was a disappointment last year, Picard has been a disappointment since he hit the NHL. San Jose's first could be hit or miss...

Of course, it seemed like nothing was going to get Meszaros to stay so I would say Murray got a decent return.

wprager


Administrator
Administrator

Number Twenty Nine wrote:Remember: Murray wants players that want to be here....

Do we know if Kuba and Picard had a choice in the matter? I don't know, Kuba will certainly have better numbers once he comes over here, so it's not a stretch to assume he'll do at least as well as Meszaros did last year. But he's likely gone next year unless. I know nothing about Picard, but I doubt he's got Meswzaros' upside.

So, here's hoping that San Jose really, really tanks this year, and *not* just in the playoffs.

Guest


Guest

wprager wrote:
Number Twenty Nine wrote:Remember: Murray wants players that want to be here....

Do we know if Kuba and Picard had a choice in the matter? I don't know, Kuba will certainly have better numbers once he comes over here, so it's not a stretch to assume he'll do at least as well as Meszaros did last year. But he's likely gone next year unless. I know nothing about Picard, but I doubt he's got Meswzaros' upside.

So, here's hoping that San Jose really, really tanks this year, and *not* just in the playoffs.
Mezaros to TB for Kuba, Picard and a 1st - Page 2 Sj squirrel

Guest


Guest

I saw Mezaros alot in his Vancouver Giants days, I thought he was a good hockey player, but he had trouble when the game got rough, he struggled. Obviously I haven't seen as much of his NHL career as his WHL one, but he is simply not a 5 million dollar hockey player at this point in his career. This is a good financial deal in the sense that the Sens save some money, get a serviceable d-man, a young prospect, and a 1st round pick.

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

The Sun has just picked up on the story:

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Hockey/2008/08/29/6612221.html

Garriock is reporting Mesz's new deal with Tampa ($4 mil / 6 yrs, or $24 mil) as fact. That is a big contract. I think I would have had issues with Murray if he had made that deal.

EDIT: you know what's really hilarious? As of this moment (8:40pm), there's not a peep of this news anywhere on the HB site. Congrats, Eklund and KLee!

2nd EDIT: Eklund has finally posted the story, backdating its posting to 8:15. Hiliarious, and shameless!



Last edited by rooneypoo on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : To expose Ek and KLee as frauds)

Guest


Guest

I think I can also breathe a sigh of relief that it wasnt Gillis who signed Andrej to an offer sheet. I was worried all day, last night as well.

You guys didnt need to select Hedman on our part. Smile

Phoenix30

Phoenix30
Veteran
Veteran

rooneypoo wrote:
Hayden wrote:Thoughts?

OK, now on to my thoughts on this trade.

First, Kuba. He's big (6'3, 200+ pounds), he's not old (31 years old), he's in the last year of his contract (so we can just ditch him if we don't like him, or if something better comes along), he's mobile, he's a decent puck mover, and he's definitely got some offensive punch. On the negative side, he's kind of expensive ($3 mil a yr), he doesn't use his size all that effectively, he's not known for his consistency, and he's never had a 40+ point season (granted, he has spent much of his career with bad teams -- FLA, MIN, and TB). Bottom line: is Kuba from last year a big drop from Meszaros last year? No, not at all. Mesz has more potential and upside obviously, but right now, they're playing at about the same level, except that Mesz is more physical than him. Grade: B/B+.

Second, Picard. Well, I've already gone over this. To summarize: Picard has good size and mobility, decent potential and upside, and he's young and cheap ($800,000 a year, two years). I like this pick up quite a bit, but I'm not jumping in the streets over it. Not just yet, anyway, until I see more of him. Grade: A-.

Finally, the pick. If the pick had been Tampa's instead of San Jose's 1st rounder, I would have been much happier. Still, a 1st is a 1st, I suppose, and perhaps we'll be able to parlay it into a higher pick or use it to trade for a goalie or D of our choosing. Grade: B+.

Not a bad trade overall, but it's not one we can say we "definitely won" until we see what Picard can do, and what we do with that extra pick.

I like this deal because we got Picard. He has good size, young and he is signed cheap for a couple of years before he becomes an RFA. With Hartsburg leading the way I think he will bloosum. I also like the idea that he is a local boy. As for Kuba, he is a good stop gap for the 1 year due to his UFA. I am hoping that things work out with him so we can keep him beyond this year.

As for the pick. I wish it was Tampa's instead of San Jose's. An extra pick that can be used in another deal based on San Jose's previous draft years who knows where they will end up.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alexandre_picard

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

Some good analysis of this trade up already at Sens Army Blog:

http://sensarmy.blogspot.com/2008/08/assessing-meszaros-trade.html

And at Sensjunkie:

http://www.sensjunkie.com/my_weblog/

And, most important and best of all, at Spector's site:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Spector

Spector gives Murray a pretty explicit 'thumbs up' for the deal, although he wonders what kind of player Mesz and Picard will turn into.

[EDIT: don't even both with Sensjunkie, actually. He thinks Picard's a winger... !]

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

rooneypoo wrote:Some good analysis of this trade up already at Sens Army Blog:

http://sensarmy.blogspot.com/2008/08/assessing-meszaros-trade.html

And at Sensjunkie:

http://www.sensjunkie.com/my_weblog/

Rooneypoo, I'm curious why you said Kuba is a downgrade from Meszaros? He had 31 points to Mezie's 36, playing in 7 fewer games. And Ottawa scored 17% more goals than Tampa. Just taking those two factors into account he's already at 40 points, and if you add in 1st PP unit icetime he should get 45-50 points.

Guest


Guest

Jordo wrote:Let's also clarify that the 1st round pick is that of San Jose's which came over in the Boyle trade.

A great deal though in my opinion. Kuba has a hell of a shot, and did fairly well for me in my fantasy pool last year. 3 mil isn't bad, and we've still got 5 mil to play with, and some competition for a spot in D!

I'm interested to see how Murray uses this 5 mil.
Do not - I repeat: Do NOT trust numbers given by Garrioche and Lee...
We don't have 5M in space, we have 3.5M:
"The Senators currently have a salary-cap hit of $50.2 million. The limit is $56.7 million."
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/sports/story.html?id=e595d1e9-311c-48cb-899a-7fe4c883f468&p=2
That was before adding Kuba's 3M...

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

At first I thought he was a winger too. Of course I checked before I posted Smile

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Guest

Aetherial wrote:Not a bad trade... Some unknowns though. Kuba was a disappointment last year, Picard has been a disappointment since he hit the NHL. San Jose's first could be hit or miss...

Of course, it seemed like nothing was going to get Meszaros to stay so I would say Murray got a decent return.
That was my initial reaction but its still a very decent return for an unsigned RFA demanding too much money...

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

wprager wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:Some good analysis of this trade up already at Sens Army Blog:

http://sensarmy.blogspot.com/2008/08/assessing-meszaros-trade.html

And at Sensjunkie:

http://www.sensjunkie.com/my_weblog/

Rooneypoo, I'm curious why you said Kuba is a downgrade from Meszaros? He had 31 points to Mezie's 36, playing in 7 fewer games. And Ottawa scored 17% more goals than Tampa. Just taking those two factors into account he's already at 40 points, and if you add in 1st PP unit icetime he should get 45-50 points.

I didn't say he was a downgrade. In fact, I said that, as of right now, in terms of playing level, I'd say they're about even. The only reason I like Mesz better is because he's so much younger and has more potential, and is a little more physical. We lose those intangibles in the trade long-term. This year, however, I'd say their play will be at about the same level.

Guest


Guest

Tukker wrote:
wprager wrote:
Number Twenty Nine wrote:Remember: Murray wants players that want to be here....

Do we know if Kuba and Picard had a choice in the matter? I don't know, Kuba will certainly have better numbers once he comes over here, so it's not a stretch to assume he'll do at least as well as Meszaros did last year. But he's likely gone next year unless. I know nothing about Picard, but I doubt he's got Meswzaros' upside.

So, here's hoping that San Jose really, really tanks this year, and *not* just in the playoffs.
Mezaros to TB for Kuba, Picard and a 1st - Page 2 Sj squirrel
This post combined with your avatar made me lol

Guest


Guest

cash wrote:
Tukker wrote:
wprager wrote:
Number Twenty Nine wrote:Remember: Murray wants players that want to be here....

Do we know if Kuba and Picard had a choice in the matter? I don't know, Kuba will certainly have better numbers once he comes over here, so it's not a stretch to assume he'll do at least as well as Meszaros did last year. But he's likely gone next year unless. I know nothing about Picard, but I doubt he's got Meswzaros' upside.

So, here's hoping that San Jose really, really tanks this year, and *not* just in the playoffs.
Mezaros to TB for Kuba, Picard and a 1st - Page 2 Sj squirrel
This post combined with your avatar made me lol
:D

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

cash wrote:
Do not - I repeat: Do NOT trust numbers given by Garrioche and Lee...
We don't have 5M in space, we have 3.5M:
"The Senators currently have a salary-cap hit of $50.2 million. The limit is $56.7 million."
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/sports/story.html?id=e595d1e9-311c-48cb-899a-7fe4c883f468&p=2
That was before adding Kuba's 3M...

Oh, agreed for sure. Garriock is using the figure listed at nhlnumbers.com, and as I've been saying for a while now, it's off by about $2.3 mil. NHLSCAP.com has the right figure, which is $6.49 mil in cap space.

Adding in Kuba's $3 mil plus Picard's $800,00 leaves us with about $2.7 mil in space.

That number's not solid, tho' -- it's factoring in 13 F, 7 D, Schubert, and 2 goalies. At least two, if not three, players will not make the final roster and will have to be moved -- either returned to the minors (Lee, Bass, Winchester, Foligno, and Picard all fall in this category), waived, or traded. At a minimum, that should free up about another $2 mil in cap space.

After this trade, things with the Senators are a little too unstable to predict precisely what our cap space is. But you're right, Garriock doesn't know what he's talking about when he cites that $5 mil figure as our current cap space.

Guest


Guest

rooneypoo wrote:
Oh, agreed for sure. Garriock is using the figure listed at nhlnumbers.com, and as I've been saying for a while now, it's off by about $2.3 mil. NHLSCAP.com has the right figure, which is $6.49 mil in cap space.

Adding in Kuba's $3 mil plus Picard's $800,00 leaves us with about $2.7 mil in space.

That number's not solid, tho' -- it's factoring in 13 F, 7 D, Schubert, and 2 goalies. At least two, if not three, players will not make the final roster and will have to be moved -- either returned to the minors (Lee, Bass, Winchester, Foligno, and Picard all fall in this category), waived, or traded. At a minimum, that should free up about another $2 mil in cap space.

After this trade, things with the Senators are a little too unstable to predict precisely what our cap space is. But you're right, Garriock doesn't know what he's talking about when he cites that $5 mil figure as our current cap space.
My expectation is for a Nycholat, McAmmond, draft pick package being used to move up in the draft or grab a decent prospect or something. Seems like the right thing for us, but I don't know how right it is for any other team...just hypothesizing (not a word...I know)
rooneypoo wrote:But you're right, Wang doesn't know what he's talking about
You could've just stopped right there Smile

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